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Mask Mandate Lifted on Public Transportation

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Now now now. One needs to be honest about what is required. Boosters are often very beneficial for many diseases. And vaccines are not harmful. There is no evidence that they do any significant harm and there is massive evidence that they work. I would have no problem with a hermit not getting a vaccine, if he could totally avoid human contact, but not too many people want to live that way. By the next time the disease rolls out we might be on a fourth booster at the most.
Who is "we"? Certainly not me.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It's nonsense because of things like the example I mentioned. Why should I have to wear a mask for the maybe 5 minutes a day I take the bus when I don't have to wear a mask anywhere else? I don't have to wear them at work, at a supermarket, where I am for 8 hours a day.
Because those five minutes are perhaps the most vulnerable of your day.
You're sitting still in a small, poorly ventilated, enclosed space, next to different people each ride, recirculating each other's air and whatever pathogens are floating in it.
It's not a matter of what's allowed, It's what's socially responsible.

Lifting the mandates is usually more a matter of political expediency and pressure from business interests than medical considerations.
Most of us are over it. I'm sick of corrupt, lying "experts" and politicians trying to rule my life using fear and extend this "crisis" indefinitely. If they love the masks so much, they can have them stitched to their face as far I care. They can go live in a bubble if they're so terrified. I'm done with it. I'm living my life.
I, too, am sick of political fear-mongering -- of 'radical' liberals, environmentalists, and climate-change extremists; leftists promoting dirty and unpatriotic books, LGBT rights, 'trannies' in bathrooms, sex education and Critical Race Theory; of Black Lives Matter rioters and rapist terrorists pouring over our southern border to undermine society; of liberals voting a dozen times for their kids, dead uncles and dogs, and packing ballot boxes. :rolleyes:

No, the pro-maskers are not terrified, or deluded by liberal propaganda. They don't love their masks.They're just trying to be socially responsible and avoid either spreading or contracting the disease.

Did you think the pandemic was over? Do you not know that the BA.2.12.1 subvariant is more transmissible than previous variants, and is on the increase in many regions? Are you aware that only a small percentage of covid cases are reported to medical authorities, anymore -- only 7% by one estimate -- so it's much more widespread than reports indicate?
It's nonsense even going by what they say we should do because people weren't wearing them "correctly" at all times and the majority of people were/are wearing cloth or disposable masks, which are basically useless. There's no point in keeping this charade up, since we were all doing it wrong for basically the entire time, anyway. This is like security theater.
A useless charade? Is that the opinion of independent medical experts, or is it propaganda being spread by pro-business interests and politicians trying to placate their political bases?
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Justice Dept. to appeal order voiding travel mask mandate | AP News

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Justice Department is filing an appeal seeking to overturn a judge’s order that voided the federal mask mandate on planes and trains and in travel hubs, officials said Wednesday.

The notice came minutes after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention asked the Justice Department to appeal the decision handed down by a federal judge in Florida earlier this week.

A notice of appeal was filed in federal court in Tampa.

The CDC said in a statement Wednesday that it is its “continuing assessment that at this time an order requiring masking in the indoor transportation corridor remains necessary for the public health.”

It remained unclear whether the Biden administration would ask the appeals court to grant an emergency stay to immediately reimpose the mask mandate on public transit. An emergency stay of the lower court’s ruling would be a whiplash moment for travelers and transit workers. Most airlines and airports, many public transit systems and even ride-sharing company Uber lifted their mask-wearing requirements in the hours following Monday’s ruling.

I wasn't sure if they were going to appeal it or not. The original order was set to expire soon anyway.

The CDC had recently extended the mask mandate, which was set to expire Monday, until May 3 to allow more time to study the BA.2 omicron subvariant, which is now responsible for the vast majority of U.S. cases. But the court ruling Monday had put that decision on hold.

The CDC said it will continue to monitor public health conditions to determine if a mandate would remain necessary. It said it believes the mandate is “a lawful order, well within CDC’s legal authority to protect public health.”

Justice Department spokesman Anthony Coley said Wednesday night that the department was filing the appeal “in light of today’s assessment by the CDC that an order requiring masking in the transportation corridor remains necessary to protect the public health.”

Biden’s administration has offered mixed messages in the wake of the Monday ruling. While officials said Americans should heed the CDC’s guidance even if it was no longer a requirement, Biden himself suggested they had more flexibility on masking-up during transit.

“That’s up to them,” Biden declared during a Tuesday visit to Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The White House nonetheless continues to require face coverings for those traveling with him on Air Force One, citing guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Wednesday that Biden still is encouraging Americans to wear masks when traveling and that he had been “answering the question quite literally” a day before.

Justice Dept. to appeal order voiding travel mask mandate
By MICHAEL BALSAMO and ZEKE MILLER17 minutes ago



1 of 3
Passengers wait in line at the security checkpoint at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, Tuesday, April 19, 2022, in Arlington, Va. The Justice Department is filing an appeal seeking to overturn a judge’s order that voided the federal mask mandate on planes and trains and in travel hubs. The notice came minutes after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention asked the Justice Department to appeal the decision handed down by a federal judge in Florida earlier this week. (AP Photo/Evan Vucci)



WASHINGTON (AP) — The Justice Department is filing an appeal seeking to overturn a judge’s order that voided the federal mask mandate on planes and trains and in travel hubs, officials said Wednesday.

The notice came minutes after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention asked the Justice Department to appeal the decision handed down by a federal judge in Florida earlier this week.

A notice of appeal was filed in federal court in Tampa.

The CDC said in a statement Wednesday that it is its “continuing assessment that at this time an order requiring masking in the indoor transportation corridor remains necessary for the public health.”

It remained unclear whether the Biden administration would ask the appeals court to grant an emergency stay to immediately reimpose the mask mandate on public transit. An emergency stay of the lower court’s ruling would be a whiplash moment for travelers and transit workers. Most airlines and airports, many public transit systems and even ride-sharing company Uber lifted their mask-wearing requirements in the hours following Monday’s ruling.

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A federal judge in Florida had struck down the national mask mandate for mass transit on Monday, leading airlines and airports to swiftly repeal their requirements that passengers wear face coverings. The Transportation Security Administration said Monday that it would it will no longer enforce the mask requirement.

TRAVEL


The CDC had recently extended the mask mandate, which was set to expire Monday, until May 3 to allow more time to study the BA.2 omicron subvariant, which is now responsible for the vast majority of U.S. cases. But the court ruling Monday had put that decision on hold.

The CDC said it will continue to monitor public health conditions to determine if a mandate would remain necessary. It said it believes the mandate is “a lawful order, well within CDC’s legal authority to protect public health.”

Justice Department spokesman Anthony Coley said Wednesday night that the department was filing the appeal “in light of today’s assessment by the CDC that an order requiring masking in the transportation corridor remains necessary to protect the public health.”


View attachment upload_2022-4-20_19-28-56.png

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Biden’s administration has offered mixed messages in the wake of the Monday ruling. While officials said Americans should heed the CDC’s guidance even if it was no longer a requirement, Biden himself suggested they had more flexibility on masking-up during transit.

“That’s up to them,” Biden declared during a Tuesday visit to Portsmouth, New Hampshire. The White House nonetheless continues to require face coverings for those traveling with him on Air Force One, citing guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Wednesday that Biden still is encouraging Americans to wear masks when traveling and that he had been “answering the question quite literally” a day before.

ADVERTISEMENT

“People are not legally bound to wear masks,” she said, after the court order. “So, it is a point in time where it is up to people — it is their choice, in that regard.

After a winter surge fueled by the omicron variant that prompted record hospitalizations, the U.S. has seen a significant drop in virus spread in recent months, leading most states and cities to drop mask mandates.

But several Northeast cities have seen a rise in hospitalizations in recent weeks, leading Philadelphia to bring back its mask mandate.

The appeal drew criticism from the U.S. Travel Association, which along with other industry groups had been pressuring the Biden administration for months to end the mask mandate for travel.

“Masks were critically important during the height of the pandemic,” said Tori Emerson Barnes, the group’s executive vice president of public affairs and policy, “but with low hospitalization rates and multiple effective health tools now widely available, from boosters to therapies to high-quality air ventilation aboard aircraft, required masking on public transportation is simply out of step with the current public health landscape.”
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Because those five minutes are perhaps the most vulnerable of your day.
You're sitting still in a small, poorly ventilated, enclosed space, next to different people each ride, recirculating each other's air and whatever pathogens are floating in it.
It's not a matter of what's allowed, It's what's socially responsible.

Lifting the mandates is usually more a matter of political expediency and pressure from business interests than medical considerations.
I, too, am sick of political fear-mongering -- of 'radical' liberals, environmentalists, and climate-change extremists; leftists promoting dirty and unpatriotic books, LGBT rights, 'trannies' in bathrooms, sex education and Critical Race Theory; of Black Lives Matter rioters and rapist terrorists pouring over our southern border to undermine society; of liberals voting a dozen times for their kids, dead uncles and dogs, and packing ballot boxes. :rolleyes:

No, the pro-maskers are not terrified, or deluded by liberal propaganda. They don't love their masks.They're just trying to be socially responsible and avoid either spreading or contracting the disease.

Did you think the pandemic was over? Do you not know that the BA.2.12.1 subvariant is more transmissible than previous variants, and is on the increase in many regions? Are you aware that only a small percentage of covid cases are reported to medical authorities, anymore -- only 7% by one estimate -- so it's much more widespread than reports indicate?
A useless charade? Is that the opinion of independent medical experts, or is it propaganda being spread by pro-business interests and politicians trying to placate their political bases?
I'm not living my life in fear. Even your "experts" are saying it's becoming less deadly with each variant and we we're all going to catch it at some point, anyway. So calm down.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
If the reason for ending the mandate has to do with ineffectiveness from the perspective of health experts, then there are many suggestions from the latter that conservative American legislators have ignored (e.g., more comprehensive vaccine mandates).

If the reason for ending the mandate has to do with a perceived encroachment on personal freedom, then conservative American legislators are being inconsistent because of their support for the recent blanket bans on elective abortion in Texas and Kentucky.

Basically, the MO of said legislators seems primarily driven by ideology and shoehorning of religious beliefs into state law rather than consistent concern for freedom or citizens' health and well-being.
Well I guess everyone has their opinion.
But we definitely disagree on this one.
I say that the mandate was ended on passenger planes was because it was not needed in the first place.
Cabin Air & Low Risk of On Board Transmission
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Yup. This is great and overdue. I was wondering when a judge was going to do their job and end this nonsense. Don't wear them anywhere else, so it's stupid to wear it the 5 minutes I spend on the bus to and from work.
I wear mine on the bus because you're just so close to everybody else. I've been wearing my mask on the bus since before mask mandates were put into place.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
They'll probably lose that, too. They haven't exactly been on a winning streak lately. Lol.

Interesting that the ruling handed down by the Fed Court was a judge, who had never been a judge before being appointed to a lifetime on Fed Court. No one thinks this is not political?
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Interesting that the ruling handed down by the Fed Court was a judge, who had never been a judge before being appointed to a lifetime on Fed Court. No one thinks this is not political?
She is a 2012 law school graduate has worked in at the U.S. Department of Justice and in private practice at Jones Day, and served as a law clerk for several federal judges as well as Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

Mizelle is an adjunct professor of law at the University of Florida Levin College of Law (her alma mater) and belongs to the conservative Federalist Society, which advocates for an originalist interpretation of the U.S. Constitution.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
and belongs to the conservative Federalist Society, which advocates for an originalist interpretation of the U.S. Constitution.

And there you have it.
Mizelle, 35, is from Polk County and graduated in 2005 from Lakeland Christian School. She earned a bachelor’s degree in 2009 from Covenant College, a private liberal arts Christian school in northwest Georgia. Her law degree came in 2012 from the University of Florida. She earned both her bachelor’s and law degrees summa cum laude.

“Ms. Mizelle has a very keen intellect, a strong work ethic and an impressive resume,” wrote Randall D. Noel, chairman of the association’s standing committee on the federal judiciary. “She presents as a delightful person, and she has many friends who support her nomination. Her integrity and demeanor are not in question. These attributes, however, simply do not compensate for the short time she has actually practiced law and her lack of meaningful trial experience.”

5 things to know about Kathryn Kimball Mizelle, Tampa judge who struck down travel mask mandate (msn.com)

I don't think the problem with the masks in on the planes themselves, as they have very sophisticated air circulation, but more concern on other forms of public transportation and in the airports. But there is also no reason why one cannot continue to wear a mask no matter what the current law determines.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Interesting that the ruling handed down by the Fed Court was a judge, who had never been a judge before being appointed to a lifetime on Fed Court. No one thinks this is not political?

I think it's political, although my opinion is that anything and everything done by government (all three branches) is political, in one form or another.

I'm not sure how relevant the qualifications of the judges or lawyers are, since this is mainly a medical/scientific question of whether it's safe to end mask mandates.

But one might also look at the sheer number of incidents aboard aircraft, most of which have to do with airline employees forced to play the role of mask police. They're stressed out about it; the airlines are begging to be relieved of that responsibility.

I generally try to stick to the rules myself. If the rules say I have to wear a mask, then I'll wear a mask.

But all this fighting and violence over masks makes me wonder if it's really worth it. I've seen numerous incidents where police have had to be called out to school board meetings to deal with unruly parents - setting a fine example for their kids of "democracy in action."

I know that some people think it's tantamount to "letting the a-holes win," but personally, I'm ready to surrender on the whole mask issue. It seems to create so much dissension and fighting that the benefits may be outweighed by the negative consequences and fallout.

More pragmatically, with a war raging in Europe and a potential war on the horizon, along with numerous other issues simmering but could cause more divisions, we may find it necessary to pick our battles. Do we really need to fight over masks? We can do many other things to try to quell the spread of COVID, with better vaccines, better treatments - even if people don't wear masks.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
That's the point. Masks should now be up to the individual and not the authorities to decide.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
Busses,, subways, and airplanes are far worse for spreading Covid than other situations. It is a very small volume with lots of people at close distances. That is why the regulations were still on for them.

And just because they are not mandated on airplanes, does not mean that they are not mandated everywhere. In my state one still needs to wear them on public transport. This ruling did not affect state mandates.

Especially since the seats are so small, you're almost sitting on your neighbor's lap.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
And there you have it.
Mizelle, 35, is from Polk County and graduated in 2005 from Lakeland Christian School. She earned a bachelor’s degree in 2009 from Covenant College, a private liberal arts Christian school in northwest Georgia. Her law degree came in 2012 from the University of Florida. She earned both her bachelor’s and law degrees summa cum laude.

“Ms. Mizelle has a very keen intellect, a strong work ethic and an impressive resume,” wrote Randall D. Noel, chairman of the association’s standing committee on the federal judiciary. “She presents as a delightful person, and she has many friends who support her nomination. Her integrity and demeanor are not in question. These attributes, however, simply do not compensate for the short time she has actually practiced law and her lack of meaningful trial experience.”

5 things to know about Kathryn Kimball Mizelle, Tampa judge who struck down travel mask mandate (msn.com)

I don't think the problem with the masks in on the planes themselves, as they have very sophisticated air circulation, but more concern on other forms of public transportation and in the airports. But there is also no reason why one cannot continue to wear a mask no matter what the current law determines.
Seems you didn't get the word.
All the ruling is you don't have to wear a mask, not you can't wear a mask
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
I know that some people think it's tantamount to "letting the a-holes win," but personally, I'm ready to surrender on the whole mask issue. It seems to create so much dissension and fighting that the benefits may be outweighed by the negative consequences and fallout.

After all there is no mandate that states anyone is not free to wear a mask if one chooses. It does leave to the conscience to wear one if you have been exposed for the benefit of others. I'm not sure the CDC ought to loose its authority completely leaving it to politics.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm not going to get into abortion on this thread, as it's off topic.

It's nonsense because of things like the example I mentioned. Why should I have to wear a mask for the maybe 5 minutes a day I take the bus when I don't have to wear a mask anywhere else? I don't have to wear them at work, at a supermarket, where I am for 8 hours a day. Most of us are over it. I'm sick of corrupt, lying "experts" and politicians trying to rule my life using fear and extend this "crisis" indefinitely. If they love the masks so much, they can have them stitched to their face as far I care. They can go live in a bubble if they're so terrified. I'm done with it. I'm living my life.

It's nonsense even going by what they say we should do because people weren't wearing them "correctly" at all times and the majority of people were/are wearing cloth or disposable masks, which are basically useless. There's no point in keeping this charade up, since we were all doing it wrong for basically the entire time, anyway. This is like security theater.

It's more feasible to mandate masks in tighter spaces such as public transportation than it is to do that everywhere. If masks were mandated everywhere, even more people would either complain (understandably, in a lot of cases) or simply wear them to get around the rules but still lower them to their chins, rendering them ineffective.

Also, health experts and organizations around the world have echoed the statement that masks indeed help to reduce viral transmission. For all of them to be lying to some sinister end, there would need to be an immense amount of global coordination, cover-ups, and concerted effort to be so uniform in their recommendations even when they come from countries with diametrically opposed interests (e.g., the U.S. and China). In my opinion, that's just not a realistically tenable view to hold in light of the facts at hand.

I think mask mandates are realistically never going to last forever, and no reputable health organization has stated such anyway. They're meant to slow down transmission and are certainly not foolproof; using them during a surge of infections or during periods of heavy stress on medical systems makes a lot of sense compared to completely forgoing them and consequently overworking healthcare staff and potentially overloading the medical infrastructure.
 
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