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Mary is the most important figure in Christianity

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Estro Felino, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    Just like the people in your books. :facepalm:
     
  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Jesus did not die on the Cross; he died a natural and peaceful death in India at the age of about 120 years.

    There was no resurrection; it is invented by Paul and the Church; just to mislead the Christians.

    Regards
     
  3. Looncall

    Looncall Well-Known Member

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    All this disagreement about religious notions indicates to me that it is not anything real that is being discussed.
     
  4. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    It is substantiated by Scripture and could have been challenged or disputed by people who were living during that time. There is no other credible piece of work that does just that. Secondly, how do you vet ancient history or history in general. Were the conquests of Alexander the Great history or legend? What about Homer's Iliad? We look at the textual construct of ancient documents and how they've withstood the test of time and research independent sources, both biblical and secular regarding said events. No other ancient documents can stand up to the rigors of time than the Old and New Testaments. Myths do not even scratch the surface of the authenticity of people, places, context and things as referenced in the Holy Scriptures. To classify as mythical is a easy and lazy explanation.
     
  5. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    And yet there are many historical errors

    Rhetoric does not get challenged, it was just how they wrote.

    The resurrection was added later to Mark. The first gospel talks almost nothing about it. Had that been a real event, it would have been blown out of porportion. Instead we see a later author adding it to mark.

    Why was Augustus named "son of god" before Jesus was even born?

    Why were the unknown gospel authors cometing against his divinity?

    We study it to find the truth and the possible historical core.


    Wrong :facepalm:

    Much of the OT has been translated in error, by literalist, who ruin the morals and teachings that were allegoric and metaphoric, written using mythology to explain the important lesons they wanted to teach.


    You dont have a clue how these were written. Nor do I or anyone credible claim the book is ALL mythology it is not.

    Basically your not attacking me at all, your attacking every credible university in the whole world, as I am repeating what they teach.

    If you would like to learn the real history that is known, and what lies in grey areas, and what is fiction, and what is not. It takes careful study. If you would like to learn I will help point you in the right direction.

    If your mind is closed and you wish to refuse knowledge and education, NO ONE can help you. And you would have no right debating topics you know nothing about.
     
  6. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    Where is he buried?
     
  7. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    A few scholars say he was thrown in a pit, or eaten by wild dogs and vultures. That was what typically happened back then.

    My answer is, we dont know what happened. Nor where.

    They also state it is factual he died on a cross. I believe this.
     
  8. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    There is no basis for your claim. The majority of scholars (both Christian and Skeptic) agree on the following:

    (1) He was crucified at the command of Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberus
    (2) He was buried in a borrowed tomb (Joseph of Arimathea)
    (3) After 3 days, the tomb was empty

    Try referencing both independent biblical Gospels, Paul's Epistles) and secular (Josephus, Tacitus, Lucian, Seutinus, Thallas, Pliny The Younger) before you make invalid statements.
     
  9. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    The resurrection was not added to Mark. Secondary divergence in regards to independent sources does not make them invalid nor does it impact the central doctrine of the Gospels. Secondly, an older creed predating Mark's Gospel and passed down to Paul (as referenced in 1 Corinthians 15) validates that the resurrection appearances were well documented. Many of Paul's Epistles predated the Gospel narratives. In addition, what explains the disciples boldness to preach the Gospel not too long after going into hiding (post-cruxifiction), Saul's conversion (Paul) and the rapid spread of Christianity throughout Judea and Rome?
     
  10. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Then why do Christians say Jesus was the only begotten son of god?

    Regards
     
  11. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Jesus is said to be buried in a tomb at Mohallah Khanyar, Srinagar, Kashmir, in India.

    Regards
     
  12. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    Mark 16 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Most scholars, following the approach of the textual critic Bruce Metzger, believe that verses 9-20 were not part of the original text.[1] Textual critics have identified two distinct endings—the "Longer Ending" (vv. 9-20) and the "Shorter Ending," which appear together in six Greek manuscripts, and in dozens of Ethiopic copies. The "Shorter Ending," with slight variations, runs as follows: "But they reported briefly to Peter and those with him all that they had been told. And after this, Jesus himself sent out by means of them, from east to west, the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation."


    Gospel writer Mark gives no description of the resurrected Jesus

    Hypotheses about the ending[edit]

    Hypotheses on how to explain the textual variations include:
    • Mark intentionally ended his Gospel at 16:8, and someone else (later in the transmission-process) composed the "Longer Ending" as a conclusion to what was interpreted to be a too-abrupt account.
    • Mark did not intend to end at 16:8, but was somehow prevented from finishing (perhaps by his own death or sudden departure from Rome), whereupon another person finished the work (still in the production-stage, before it was released for church-use) by attaching material from a short Marcan composition about Jesus' post-resurrection appearances.
    • Mark wrote an ending which was accidentally lost (perhaps as the last part of a scroll which was not rewound, or as the outermost page of a codex which became detached from the other pages), and someone in the 100's composed the "Longer Ending" as a sort of patch, relying on parallel-passages from the other canonical Gospels.
    • Verses 16:9–20 were written by Mark and were omitted or lost from Sinaiticus and Vaticanus for one reason or another, perhaps accidentally, perhaps intentionally. (Possibly a scribe regarded John 21 as a better sequel to Mark's account, and considered the "Longer Ending" superfluous.)
    • Mark wrote an ending, but it was suppressed and replaced with verses 16:9–20, which are a pastiche of parallel passages from the other canonical Gospels.


    All 7 of them did that we can attribute to Paul and his communities that helped him write these.

    The other epistles are probably pauls later disciples.
     
  13. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    Have you validated that the body is Jesus'?
     
  14. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    STOP talking about thing syou know nothing about. :facepalm:
     
  15. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    "Only Begotten" in the Greek translation is monogenes, which speaks to the uniqueness in kind that Jesus is in relation to to the Father. He is eternal in nature and was this in the beginning (John 1:1) and His incarnation for a divine purpose represented the manifestation of God in the flesh. Begotten speaks to His position within the triune Godhead(Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
     
  16. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    The Indian Government has taken this matter in their hands.
    There are many Indian scholars who endorse it.

    Regards
     
  17. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    I'm not disagreeing with you that the older manuscripts did end abruptly at Mark 16:8. But at that point, what had been confirmed? The tomb was empty! If later disciples of Mark added additional information (versus 9-20), it implies that there were older sources regarding the resurrection narrative. Many scholars agree that the oldest creed (as referenced in 1 Corinthians 15) predates Mark and was circulating within a few years after the death of Jesus.
     
  18. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    Are you kidding me? Compared to the 1 and 2nd century sources I cited? Ask yourself how many independent sources agree with those Indian scholars.
     
  19. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Sources, plz.
     
  20. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    No. It really isn't. The bible isn't nearly as historically-reliable as you assert here.
     
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