"Mary had a little lamb" is a Christian propaganda piece?

[T-Dawg]

I saw this disgraceful poem on the door to one of the professor's office in the math/science building of my campus (not one of the professors I had, thank Whatever).

I hadn't actually heard the entire song before, and was utterly stunned to see that a children's nursery rhyme was actually a blatantly Christian propaganda piece.

Afterwards, I looked it up on the internet and found that this version was a corrupted version of the original. Who would dare to turn such an innocent nursery rhyme into Christianized drivel? I mean seriously, even the rhythm in the Christian poem is wrong!

Anyway, should I start a petition or something to get the professor fired, lest the students who happen to read the poem begin to think that it is acceptable? We CAN'T afford to let even more Christianity into our schools, and this poster being present in a college campus is a serious, albeit small, threat to our education. Clamping down on this kind of behavior will help remind students and professors alike that we will not tolerate Christians (or any other religious fundamentalists) trying to mess with our already messed up educational system.

 

[Baydwin]

You could complain about it but, assuming you're American, with freedom of speech I don't imagine there's a lot that could be done. He's expressing an opinion, people don't have to read it.
If you were in the UK you could probably get the university to have him remove it from the door.

 

[Father Heathen]

You didn't know that Cheap Krishna imitations solve all of the complex and complicated social issues and make everything as right as rain?

 

[Baydwin]

You didn't know that Cheap Krishna imitations solve all of the complex and complicated social issues and make everything as right as rain?

I'm also willing to bet that the majority of kids who are involved in gangs, take weapons to school and are involved in violence also proclaim some form of religious faith.

 

[Storm]

Disgusting as it is, I find it laughably improbable that those verses were part of the original nursery rhyme.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm also willing to bet that the majority of kids who are involved in gangs, take weapons to school and are involved in violence also proclaim some form of religious faith.

Atheists only make up 0.21% of the prison population in the U.S.

 

[Erebus]

Atheists only make up 0.21% of the prison population in the U.S.

Yes but that's only because they're so evil even the police can't stomach dealing with their atrocities.

 

[Walkntune]

Atheists only make up 0.21% of the prison population in the U.S.

If 1 out 10 people were atheist, the other nine religious,and five get arrested,whats the chance that most of the ones who get arrested will be religious?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If 1 out 10 people were atheist, the other nine religious,and five get arrested,whats the chance that most of the ones who get arrested will be religious?

100%.

50% of the time, the arrested group would have 1 atheist (i.e. be 20% atheist). The other 50% of the time, the arrested group would have zero atheists. Either way, most of the people arrested would be religious.

Repeat the exercise over and over, and on average, 90% of the people arrested would be religious and 10% would be atheist.

However, I disagree with Father Heathen's statistic... or at least, I'm inclined to reject it until he shows where it came from, because I've seen similar numbers that came out of poor methodology or very out-of-date surveys (e.g. a survey of prisons from the 1930s).

 

[Father Heathen]

If 1 out 10 people were atheist, the other nine religious,and five get arrested,whats the chance that most of the ones who get arrested will be religious?

The point is that if religion prevented violence, the statistics would be a bit different.

 

[Father Heathen]

However, I disagree with Father Heathen's statistic... or at least, I'm inclined to reject it until he shows where it came from, because I've seen similar numbers that came out of poor methodology or very out-of-date surveys (e.g. a survey of prisons from the 1930s).

Federal Bureau of Prisons, March 5th 1997

 

[Storm]

There are other issues with such sources, though. They don't take into account post-incarceration conversions, to say nothing of whether such conversions are just to win brownie points with the parole board.

 

[T-Dawg]

Disgusting as it is, I find it laughably improbable that those verses were part of the original nursery rhyme.

It turns out that they weren't, but I should still demand that the professor be punished for encouraging such drivel.

It's not freedom of speech when it advocates theocracy (no religious freedom) and the repression of thought in our schools. Besides, there's a law against writing blatantly false things (it's called libel, isn't it?), and praying in school is not illegal as long as it is not advocated by the teachers.

 

[Storm]

It turns out that they weren't, but I should still demand that the professor be punished for encouraging such drivel.

It's not freedom of speech when it advocates theocracy (no religious freedom) and the repression of thought in our schools. Besides, there's a law against writing blatantly false things (it's called libel, isn't it?), and praying in school is not illegal as long as it is not advocated by the teachers.

It is, actually. However, it might be deemed a violation of the Establishment Clause, which limits such speech in government context.

 

[Walkntune]

The point is that if religion prevented violence, the statistics would be a bit different.

Religion doesn't prevent violence. The only thing that prevents violence is dying to your own selfish desires and walking in a selfless love or agape love.

 

[Erebus]

There are other issues with such sources, though.

My main issue is that the source was presented by Father Heathen who doesn't even believe in God. Therefore how can he possibly know anything about prison statistics? Therefore God exists.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The point is that if religion prevented violence, the statistics would be a bit different.

Would they? Prisoners receive quite a bit of incentive to feign Christianity in prison. Don't you think that's going to be reflected in these surveys?

Also, there's a negative correlation between religion and income and education. Income and education both negatively correlate with criminality. How do you know you're seeing the effects of religion specifically and not education or income? IOW, is the religiosity of prisoners a cause of them being in prison or is it a side effect of the real cause?

Federal Bureau of Prisons, March 5th 1997

This one?

Response Number %
---------------------------- --------
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009%
---------------------------- --------
Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)



Unknown/No Answer 18381
----------------------------
Total Convicted 93112 80.259% (74731) prisoners' religion is known.

Held in Custody 3856 (not surveyed due to temporary custody)
----------------------------
Total In Prisons 96968

Assuming this is the one (and it looks like it is, because the numbers match), it seems like you're doing a few things here:

- you've assumed that the "unknown/no answer" responses have the same split between religious affiliations as shown in the answered results. Don't you think it's reasonable to expect that atheists be over-represented in this group?

- you've neglected the possibility that people who are actually atheists (i.e. don't believe in God) might still identify with a religious denomination for reasons of culture or upbringing.

Because of these problems, I think your conclusion is questionable.

"0.21% of responsive survey participants self-identified as atheists" is not the same as "0.21% of prisoners are atheists".

 

[Storm]

My main issue is that the source was presented by Father Heathen who doesn't even believe in God. Therefore how can he possibly know anything about prison statistics? Therefore God exists.

I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic, but I fail to see the point. I'm not even sure who your target is.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

There are other issues with such sources, though. They don't take into account post-incarceration conversions, to say nothing of whether such conversions are just to win brownie points with the parole board.

Or to just win brownie points with god.

 

[Storm]

Or to just win brownie points with god.

If they think God is there to win brownie points with, it's not lip service.