• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Marriage

Lightkeeper

Well-Known Member
The average marriage lasts only about 12 years. Yet, young people get married hoping for the dream of a lifelong relationship. It's not unusual to find people who have been married several times. Do you see a time when people will no longer get married? What is the solution to dissolution?
 

jewscout

Religious Zionist
Lightkeeper said:
The average marriage lasts only about 12 years. Yet, young people get married hoping for the dream of a lifelong relationship. It's not unusual to find people who have been married several times. Do you see a time when people will no longer get married? What is the solution to dissolution?
no i don't think marriage will go away however i think that people need to take seriously the concept of marriage and not divorce or go creeping around on the side when things get bad...
 

fromthe heart

Well-Known Member
Lightkeeper said:
The average marriage lasts only about 12 years. Yet, young people get married hoping for the dream of a lifelong relationship. It's not unusual to find people who have been married several times. Do you see a time when people will no longer get married? What is the solution to dissolution?
I'm actually surprised it's that long...It's seemed to me that in the last 30-40 years each year has become even more disposable including marriage. The first time I heard of a pre-nup I thought well that's just saying you expect failure. I feel that some take the easy way out...it helps them to avoid actually working at their marriage. Heck...I could have been divorced about 4 times had we not felt strongly enough to stick it out and MAKE it work. Marriage is a job just as one where you recieve a salary...if you don't put effort into it you get nothing out of it. Satin is the creater of turmoil in a relationship...too happy and feel secure...just wait and it'll change and you will look at it as if what you thought was so wonderful was a lie or something...but that's Satins plan...so when you get stuck on making it work despite all then Satin has little to be able to do...that's when you'll have financial trouble...lol It's always something so it's at times like a bad meal sooner or later you'll get a different one if only you have the patience to wait.

Now I'm not saying when there is abuse involved you should stick around for another whack...but there's no sin in seperation.

Marriage will never just go away...it's an instution unlike any other. I think when you see a person who has been married several times if you look close enough you'll see why.:)
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Lightkeeper said:
The average marriage lasts only about 12 years. Yet, young people get married hoping for the dream of a lifelong relationship. It's not unusual to find people who have been married several times. Do you see a time when people will no longer get married? What is the solution to dissolution?
I think people marry to young.

If more people would spend their early years (20`s) solidifying a career and trying to understand what they really want out of life many of the pressures of a young marraige would never happen to begin with.
 

Lightkeeper

Well-Known Member
linwood said:
I think people marry to young.

If more people would spend their early years (20`s) solidifying a career and trying to understand what they really want out of life many of the pressures of a young marraige would never happen to begin with.
I think that's probably a good cause of divorce. People get married while they are still in school. It seems that in the 19th and early 20th century the man was usually well established in business before he married.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Broken expectations is the chief cause for many divorces IMHO. When many of us are bitten with the love bug, our rational thinking flies out the window. Heck, being irrational will give us some of the greatest joys in life - when we can say, "I did it, I didn't give a damn about what anybody thought, I was wild and I did it!!" But when reality hits us and we wake up in a world that we didn't imagine for ourselves, the crappy part about being irrational hits us like a Mack truck.

I encourage some pre-marital counceling from a professional or a decent minister (WHO HAS BEEN MARRIED for a while). A few books about relationships can be helpful too (your pre-marital councelor can recommend some). If you get the feeling that your councelor is a moron, find another one because they probrably are. Most of us know someone that can recommend someone who's not an idiot. Trust me, there are a billion idiots out there giving people advice, but there are also a great deal of level-headed folks that know a thing or two about relationships.

This is what you need to learn in pre-marital counceling:
1) How to make a budget and more about home finance
2) How men and women relate to eachother sexually. Ok, most of us figure out what sex is all about before we get married, but knowing some stuff about sexual needs from a knowledable person can really solve some problems in a marriage. Ever thought you knew how to fix a car and found out that you need a mechanic? hmmmm

Sex is a wide, wild and crazy universe. Find a good map.

3) Problem solving - you need in-depth training on conflict resolution. There are conflicts in marriage (DUH!!), so having a plan and training really helps. Divorce = unresolved conflict

4) Life planning. Find out your life goals BEFORE you get married, or at least a life sketch. Marrying a lazy bum may not be the best thing for an over-acheiver.

EDIT: Always ask your counselor if they had a divorce. You don't want to take advice from someone who failed in this regard, particularly if it is your goal not to be divorced. It's like the old proverb, "Never trust a skinny cook." Divorced folks know a thing or two about broken marriages and unmarried folks can learn a great deal from them, but all they have is theories for keeping one together. If your conselor downplays or does not address these issues, find another person to talk to because you are not getting good advice that is worth your time, and preparing for marriage is worth it.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
Since people can be quite happy without a ring and a certificate, I think it makes no difference if marriage disappears. I can't envision that happening however (well...I can, but the vision is the same).
 

mrscardero

Kal-El's Mama
I got married young. A week after I graduated highschool, I got married. My first husband was 5 years older then I. We were married for 3 1/2 years until he decided that he did not want to be married anymore. I was mature for my age and he was still wet behind the ears. I supported him when he didn't have a job. I was the one to put food on the table and a roof over our heads. Even though I was young and got married young, I was prepared and willing to do what I can to make our marriage work, but he wasn't.

I got remarried (carrdero and I were not planning on getting married) and now that I am getting older, I don't find myself any different from when I first got married. I am still mature, responcible, independent, and more.

Some do get married too young and they will learn what marriage is all about. Starting a family and having careers, providing shelter and food. Some get married because a baby is brought into the relationship. There are those who feel that marriage should take place before a child comes into this world. Why? That's where my bestfriend is right now. She feels that she needs to be married to the father of her child. She is scared to loose the child over custody battles. Why marry someone that you have lived with for a few weeks (to see what it will be like) even though you have been in a relationship with this person for almost a year? Why marry when you are not happy and the relationship is not going anywhere due to the lack of trust? For her, it's the child. Again, another reason why young get married.

Some get married for love. Some just live together with out the piece of paper. Young people get married because of love and they will live together and they will start to learn about each other. Some will learn that it's not where they want to be so seperation comes into place and divorce. No one will know about their partners until they have lived in the same roof.

Why marry? Why not just live together? If we love someone, do we need to marry them for the piece of paper and the title of Mr. & Mrs.?
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Why marry? Why not just live together? If we love someone, do we need to marry them for the piece of paper and the title of Mr. & Mrs.?

Thats a great question.
One I asked all my married friends when I was single, the question they could never adequately answer.

I will say that I needed that piece of paper as well as the public proclaimation of lifelong love, fidelity, and loyalty.
I needed that absolute commitment for myself, divorce is not an option for me and I knew it wouldn`t be well before I ever met the woman I married.

When I was younger I was wild, every day was a new adventure for me and there were no holds barred and nothing was out of the question..nothing.
I am truly extremely lucky to be healthy, alive, and not incarcerated.

I lived with many women before I married, I thought I was in love many times.
Somewhere deep down inside I knew it wasn`t going to last and it didn`t
If I had thought it would last I would have made that ultimate commitment.

I know what love really is now and that piece of paper is evidence of it.
At least for my own personal part in it.

Engraved on the inside of my wedding band is a message from my wife..
"I Promise Forever"

Niether of us could have made such a promise and meant it or been believed without that ultimate commitment.
Not really.
 

mrscardero

Kal-El's Mama
linwood said:
I will say that I needed that piece of paper as well as the public proclaimation of lifelong love, fidelity, and loyalty.
I needed that absolute commitment for myself, divorce is not an option for me and I knew it wouldn`t be well before I ever met the woman I married. I lived with many women before I married, I thought I was in love many times.
Could you not have been in love and just not have been ready for marriage and having the title of being a husband and wife? Being with other women and the relationship not working out, it ended up to be a breakup then. Lesser pain then a divorce (No lawyers and so on) but the feeling of being dumped must have been hard on them (or not) because to them, there will never be a future with you as Mrs. You can be with someone and not have that piece of paper or that title. When you where with these other women, you were to be loyal to them, to love them, to be faithful and more....visa versa. And there was no piece of paper needed.

Somewhere deep down inside I knew it wasn`t going to last and it didn`t
If I had thought it would last I would have made that ultimate commitment.
Commitment: 2 a : an agreement or pledge to do something in the future; especially : an engagement to assume a financial obligation at a future date b : something pledged c : the state or an instance of being obligated or emotionally impelled <a commitment to a cause>

Main Entry: ob·li·ga·tion
Function: noun
1 : the action of
obligating oneself to a course of action (as by a promise or vow)
2 a : something (as a formal contract, a promise, or the demands of conscience or custom) that
obligates one to a course of action b : a debt security (as a mortgage or corporate bond) c : a commitment (as by a government) to pay a particular sum of money; also : an amount owed under such an obligation <unable to meet its obligations, the company went into bankruptcy>
3 a : a condition or feeling of being
obligated b : a debt of gratitude
4 : something one is bound to do : [size=-1]DUTY[/size], [size=-1]RESPONSIBILITY[/size]


As I was typing commitment, I had to look up the word because it didn't read right. I don't really feel this should be the word to be used when you want to be with someone. I don't feel committed nor do I have an obligation to carrdero. Commitment is like imprisonment. Obligation is like duty bound. Our relationship is neither. It's a 50/50 relationship even if we did not get married.

I know what love really is now and that piece of paper is evidence of it.
At least for my own personal part in it.
So it was an experience.


Niether of us could have made such a promise and meant it or been believed without that ultimate commitment.
Not really.
Neither of you could have been loyal to each other, faithful, love one another with out the marriage?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Mrs. Carrero,
I think your onto something with your use of the dictionary:
Commitment: 2 a : an agreement or pledge to do something in the future; especially : an engagement to assume a financial obligation at a future date b : something pledged c : the state or an instance of being obligated or emotionally impelled <a commitment to a cause>

Main Entry: ob·li·ga·tion

Function: noun
1 : the action of
obligating oneself to a course of action (as by a promise or vow)
2 a : something (as a formal contract, a promise, or the demands of conscience or custom) that
obligates one to a course of action b : a debt security (as a mortgage or corporate bond) c : a commitment (as by a government) to pay a particular sum of money; also : an amount owed under such an obligation <unable to meet its obligations, the company went into bankruptcy>
3 a : a condition or feeling of being
obligated b : a debt of gratitude
4 : something one is bound to do : [size=-1]DUTY[/size], [size=-1]RESPONSIBILITY[/size]


Marrige formally creates legal and financial responsibilities. Common law in most states establishes responsibilities to "common marriages," but when you share your life with someone, there are certain social and ethical obligations which have the force of law. Granted, in a loving relationship, we should be able to provide for one another above and beyond the law, but marriage and family law is designed to keep us from treating eachother like animals when we want to split up.

Marriage is the social basis for the family. It creates obligations, and we should be obligated, but when we are "in love," the obligations flow out of ourselves. When we are not feeling warm and fuzzy, the obligations are enforced. Now divorce is a basic human right, and at the same time the family is still the basic building block of society from the influence of Plato's poletia and countless other works of Western and other philosophies. Marriage and divorce will be with us for the forseeable future, even if it is redefined and reshaped. Society needs structure - even free folks need to follow rules that keep society flowing for the common good.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I think the biological basis for marriage is pair bonding, which is an inherent, instinctual behavior of humans. That is, I don't buy into the notion that marriage was invented (although specific forms of marriage have been invented). Instead, it arose as part of our nature. Therefore, it just ain't gonna go away until or unless human nature changes. Pair bonding, in one form or another, will endure as long as our species endures.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Could you not have been in love and just not have been ready for marriage and having the title of being a husband and wife?

Perhaps but it wasn`t the same emotion I have for my wife.
The "Love" I thought I felt was centered around that person materially.
I had to be near them I felt joy in their presence.
With my wife it`s somewhat the same but not nearly as narcasistic.
It isn`t about my pleasure it`s about what she needs in order to build the life we want together.
From my perspective anyway.

You can be with someone and not have that piece of paper or that title. When you where with these other women, you were to be loyal to them, to love them, to be faithful and more....visa versa. And there was no piece of paper needed.

The piece of paper merely represents the depth of commitment.
Remember I`m speaking from a very personal perspective.
I needed the symbolism of that commitment to let myself know that I was serious.
This is it, no turning back, divorce is not an option.
I personally needed that commitment to build my family.
Considering my family was already mostly in place when I met them (Step sons) my marriage was never just about my relationship with my wife both of us could have possibly gone on forever just as happy as we are now but the trials and tribulations of caring for children are an entirely different prospect.
Could I have broken my wifes heart and left?
Yes, most possibly.
Could I have broken the hearts of two young boys who would never understand my reasons for hurting them?
No, that I couldn`t do considering I was once that young boy.
It isn`t about me anymore.


As I was typing commitment, I had to look up the word because it didn't read right. I don't really feel this should be the word to be used when you want to be with someone. I don't feel committed nor do I have an obligation to carrdero. Commitment is like imprisonment. Obligation is like duty bound. Our relationship is neither. It's a 50/50 relationship even if we did not get married.

Thats you, not me.
I do have obligations to my family and I do not consider them imprisonment because I chose to take them on.
I have three kids and trust me raising them often feels like a duty I`d rather not have.
However when I reflect on the cost/profit ratio I realise that I cannot lose.
I have given up alot to be in this marriage but I have gained things I could never have attained without it, things I would never even been aware of if I hadn`t done it.


Neither of you could have been loyal to each other, faithful, love one another with out the marriage?

Sure we could have but we could never have built the life we have now without it.


 

mrscardero

Kal-El's Mama
linwood said:
This is it, no turning back, divorce is not an option.

It's seems that commitment is so important to you that no matter what happens, you will never divorce your wife. Does this mean that incase one is no longer the person they want to be with, divorce would not take place? I had said that to myself. I was raised to give myself to the person I will spend the rest of my life with. I did that with my first husband. I was to be with him for the rest of my life and start a family. Build a home and be together with the vows that we had said to one another. Then he decided that he no longer wanted to be with me. I had sacrificed everything to be with him. I had tried to give us a wonderful marriage persay. I thought he was happy cause I was.

Certain things lead marriages into a divorce.

You know marriages can end in many ways, whether through death or divorce. It seems like you have the commitment that you will be married until death no matter what, and if I am wrong, please let me know cause that is what I am gathering.

I think it's great to see people that have been married for over 50 years still together. But it seems that in this generation, it doesn't seem to last that long anymore. Why is that? Anyone know? People get married and it may last more then 10 years but less then 25.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Lightkeeper said:
The average marriage lasts only about 12 years. Yet, young people get married hoping for the dream of a lifelong relationship. It's not unusual to find people who have been married several times. Do you see a time when people will no longer get married? What is the solution to dissolution?
I'd argue with that; there has been such a preponderance of divorces in the last thirty years that the children from those marriages are already 'attuned to the expectation and normality' of divorce. That is Nature; or rather, Nurture:jiggy:
When you walk down a street in town here, it is not unusual to see solicitors' windows with adverts like 'Divorces for a flat fee of £50'; I never saw such a thing even ten years ago.

I think that the essential ingredient of marriage which has been erroded by the media, television - whatever - is WORK.

Marriages more than not occur with a hearty helping of lust and emotion; lust has a relatively short life span though, ( without being too clinical, half the fun of sex is the 'exploration' bit).

I have always thought about how difficult it is for children and teenagers to 'get on famously' with their parents and other relatives; yet these are people to whom we are genetically, and Nurturally 'tied'. Mathematically, the chances of picking a perfect stranger and expecting to be 'happy for ever after' must be very small. That's when the 'work at it' comes into play. However, those who have been brought up surrounded by divorced parents are hardly likely to believe in the 'work at it' concept. They are far more likely to respond as they saw their parents doing so.IMO (That's the first time I've used that abreviation, I feel kind of 'liberated':jiggy: )
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The sad fact is there is a learning curve in everything, including marriage. Given that fact, I would not expect anything but a relatively high divorce rate. Perhaps the best way to bring the divorce rate down is to teach people the skills they will need for marriage before they get married.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
It's seems that commitment is so important to you that no matter what happens, you will never divorce your wife.

This is true.
There isn nothing my wife could do that would lead me to divorce short of murder, torture, or some other act that is deemed evil by my ethical system.
I don`t see her doing any of these things
However I have no control over her wishes for divorce but I would say she feels as I do about the subject.

Does this mean that incase one is no longer the person they want to be with, divorce would not take place?

This is true.
However this is why I earlier opposed marriage at an early age.
My wife and I are both realists and are aware of and understand the possible problems that can and will arise within our marriage.
I`ve thought of no problem that would lead me to leave her other than her harming our children or having reason to think she might harm them.
Again, this is not about me or even about her or even about our kids.
It`s about all of us and the life we are building.
If my leaving causes harm I cannot ethically do so and it would cause harm.

I had said that to myself. I was raised to give myself to the person I will spend the rest of my life with. I did that with my first husband. I was to be with him for the rest of my life and start a family. Build a home and be together with the vows that we had said to one another. Then he decided that he no longer wanted to be with me. I had sacrificed everything to be with him. I had tried to give us a wonderful marriage persay. I thought he was happy cause I was.

How old were you when you first married Mrs. Carderro?


You know marriages can end in many ways, whether through death or divorce. It seems like you have the commitment that you will be married until death no matter what, and if I am wrong, please let me know cause that is what I am gathering.

That is my intent yes.

I think it's great to see people that have been married for over 50 years still together. But it seems that in this generation, it doesn't seem to last that long anymore. Why is that? Anyone know? People get married and it may last more then 10 years but less then 25.

I think it`s because they don`t share my intent.

:)

 

linwood

Well-Known Member
That's when the 'work at it' comes into play. However, those who have been brought up surrounded by divorced parents are hardly likely to believe in the 'work at it' concept.

I see this too Michel but there are exceptions and I often wonder why they aren`t studied as much as the norm is.

I was brought up around divorce all around me.
This is one reason I waited to be sure I knew what I wanted in a partner and marraige.

I was brought up in the midst of raging alchoholism.
This is the reason I rarely imbibe now.

I was brought up in the midst of domestic abuse.
This is the reason I would never resort to abusing my family.

I know studies show that those who are raised within these environments are more likely to lead the same lives as those who raised them but it just never affected me that way.
I saw it was wrong and knew I couldn`t be like that.


 

mrscardero

Kal-El's Mama
linwood said:
How old were you when you first married Mrs. Carderro?
My first marriage was when I was fresh out of high school. Graduated in 97 and got married a week later. I was raised to give myself to the man I am to marry and to spend the rest of my life with him. That we would start a family and build a life together. It didn't end up like that. The relationship ended on his part. I was young but mature for my age.

I am now 26. carrdero and I have been married for over 2 years. Whether we will be together for the rest of our lives or not, only time will tell but I will not sit around waiting for any changes. If the change happens, it happens. I cannot do anything about it but wish him the best in his life. We cannot tell what the future holds for us.
 

johnnys4life

Pro-life Mommy
My husband and I have agreed that no matter how rough things get, divorce isn't an option. Other people divorce when they go through hard times, I think we've made it through some times that other people would've divorced over already.

If I should die, I want him to remarry. If he dies, if I am old I will remain a widow. I definately know I was made to be married and not single though. It isn't right for everybody, so nobody should feel pressured into it.
 
Top