Many are educated to levels 4 and 5, but we need truck drivers!

[oldbadger]

Actually there's excellent wages to be made at many manual trades. It seems to be that a lot of younger people don't want to do that manual labor, however. But don't worry. Those liberal art degrees will get you an excellent job in the fast food industry!

Well said!
It's very sad that our societies have developed such negative bigotry towards certain jobs, it reminds me of the class snobbery of 50+ years ago.

Younger people are (mostly) so sensitive about how they look, their status, credibility etc, and I can understand why they might not want to be seen working in an everyday job..... they'll get put down, seen as less than they are, laughed at, even. And that is snobbery.

I think that's why so many young folks give up and go for benefits lifestyles. It's no good.

If anybody is talking-down jobs like postman, shelf-filler, fast-food worker etc, then they are as stuck-up and snobbish as ever before.

 

[Martin]

Well said!
It's very sad that our societies have developed such negative bigotry towards certain jobs, it reminds me of the class snobbery of 50+ years ago.

Younger people are (mostly) so sensitive about how they look, their status, credibility etc, and I can understand why they might not want to be seen working in an everyday job..... they'll get put down, seen as less than they are, laughed at, even. And that is snobbery.

I think that's why so many young folks give up and go for benefits lifestyles. It's no good.

If anybody is talking-down jobs like postman, shelf-filler, fast-food worker etc, then they are as stuck-up and snobbish as ever before.

Have you ever worked as a postman, shelf-filler or fast-food worker? Do you know what these jobs are really like, and why they might be unattractive to young people? The real problem here is lack of opportunity, which is closely related to socio-economics.

 

[oldbadger]

I take it that from this that you don't have any first hand experience in the transport industry or building trade, and clearly you have no response to the reality of lorry drivers considering strike action.
It's just more bluster, with little basis in experience or reality.

How wrong you are, Meerkat.
You really shouldn't make up people's pasts and then chuck your guesses at them.

I agree there should be more emphasis on vocational training and skills, but that's a different matter. And for the umpteenth time, I'm not disparaging anything, quite the opposite.

Every single job mentioned here, you've put down!
Driver jobs so bad......meh! The fact that drivers can strike doesn't mean the job is bad, it means that drivers can lever for more.
Building workers 'shot by 50'? No disparaging? Go read what you have written all through this thread.

Finally bursting out in to insults, Meerkat....... like calling my promotion as 'patronising'

I'm sad you never found any kind of rewarding experiences in your list of jobs. That speaks about you, not the jobs.

 

[oldbadger]

Have you ever worked as a postman, shelf-filler or fast-food worker? Do you know what these jobs are really like, and why they might be unattractive to young people? The real problem here is lack of opportunity, which is closely related to socio-economics.

Yes to two of those.
Jobs are unattractive to young people because people like you put them down, Meerkat.
Once a person with lower academic ability has thrown off the stigmas generated by bigotry, then they can move forward.

 

[Martin]

How wrong you are, Meerkat.
You really shouldn't make up people's pasts and then chuck your guesses at them.


Every single job mentioned here, you've put down!
Driver jobs so bad......meh! The fact that drivers can strike doesn't mean the job is bad, it means that drivers can lever for more.
Building workers 'shot by 50'? No disparaging? Go read what you have written all through this thread.

Finally bursting out in to insults, Meerkat....... like calling my promotion as 'patronising'

I'm sad you never found any kind of rewarding experiences in your list of jobs. That speaks about you, not the jobs.

More bluster, with a bit of lame ad hom. I didn't say I didn't find any of those roles rewarding, I was explaining the reality of them.

I can't take you seriously, it's just bluster and hollow moralising.

 

[Martin]

Yes to two of those.
Jobs are unattractive to young people because people like you put them down, Meerkat.
Once a person with lower academic ability has thrown off the stigmas generated by bigotry, then they can move forward.

I take it from this you haven't actually done these jobs, so again it's just more bluster and hollow moralising.
The "stigma" is due to a lack of opportunity for some young people, and a shortage of accessible vocational training.

 

[oldbadger]

I take it from this you haven't actually done these jobs, so again it's just more bluster and hollow moralising.
The "stigma" is due to a lack of opportunity for some young people, and a shortage of accessible vocational training.

Which part of 'yes to two of those' didn't you understand?
The stigma is due to bigotry, meerkat.

 

[oldbadger]

More bluster, with a bit of lame ad hom.
I can't take you seriously.

You telling us all about your jobs as some kind of 'proof' is what the 'ad hominem fallacy' is all about.

the 'I was this so I am right' stance is an ad-hominem stance.

 

[Martin]

You telling us all about your jobs as some kind of 'proof' is what the 'ad hominem fallacy' is all about.

the 'I was this so I am right' stance is an ad-hominem stance.

Nonsense. It just means I have called you out, and you can't respond. It's all bluster.

 

[oldbadger]

Just any old college degree isn't going to get you a good jog. But someone has to work at Mcdonald's. Of course, then, what did they go in dept for?

So true.
Many young grads are so stuck up about their importance that they cannot bring themselves to work an everyday job.

Graduates miss out on employment ‘because they are job snobs’

Graduates miss out on employment ‘because they are job snobs’
Too many unemployed graduates are guilty of “job snobbery” by turning down work they consider menial, according to a recruitment expert.
Official figures revealed yesterday that youth unemployment is climbing back towards one million, with joblessness amongst 16-24-year-olds rising by 15,000 to reach 973,000 in the last quarter.

 

[oldbadger]

Nonsense. It just means I have called you out, and you can't respond. It's all bluster.

Calling out members on RF is against the rules, Meerkat.

I've responded by confirming that I have worked in driving, in retail, in delivery, etc.
Calling me some kind of liar is not going to win your point, Meerkat.

I just looked for positives in what I was doing, you rubbished yours. Sad.

 

[oldbadger]

Truck drivers are facing obsolescence. A number of technologies such as driverless vehicles and drones will eliminate many, if not most, truck driving positions in the coming decade.

Nobody can be quite sure of their job security in the future, Shaul. Apart from IT specialists, that is!

Bank staff are getting redundancy in very large numbers. IT banking is closing down Bank branches all around.

IT and robotics are really digging in to our employment bases.
I think the trick is to expand viewpoints, flexibilities, etc, and to throw away job snobberies.

 

[Martin]

Calling out members on RF is against the rules, Meerkat.

I've responded by confirming that I have worked in driving, in retail, in delivery, etc.
Calling me some kind of liar is not going to win your point, Meerkat.

I just looked for positives in what I was doing, you rubbished yours. Sad.

I didn't call you a liar. I said your pronouncements on this topic have little basis in experience or reality, and nothing you've said has changed that impression.

 

[Kooky]

Possibly it's a status thing? Or people telling them they'll (eventually) earn more money.

Do you actually believe that a lower education will earn you more money?

 

[Shaul]

Nobody can be quite sure of their job security in the future, Shaul. Apart from IT specialists, that is!

Bank staff are getting redundancy in very large numbers. IT banking is closing down Bank branches all around.

IT and robotics are really digging in to our employment bases.
I think the trick is to expand viewpoints, flexibilities, etc, and to throw away job snobberies.

The key is not to pursue mere jobs. It is to pursue equity.

 

[oldbadger]

The key is not to pursue mere jobs. It is to pursue equity.

When you have been made redundant, and have rent/mortgage, family, expenses, bills etc..... any job can keep you going while you search for more suitable employment.

Best not to be too nit-picking in such times.

 

[oldbadger]

Do you actually believe that a lower education will earn you more money?

No.
I think that people who cannot rise in education can find good livelihoods in everyday jobs.
I'll bet that you agree about that as well.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Actually there's excellent wages to be made at many manual trades. It seems to be that a lot of younger people don't want to do that manual labor, however. But don't worry. Those liberal art degrees will get you an excellent job in the fast food industry!

I have never met anyone making a career in fast food having graduated with a liberal arts degree. I doubt you have either. Those jobs are either kids or older adults that haven't got an education, but need to make a living.

My father was an electrician and my mother was a nurse. They made enough money to get a ton of kids through college. They ended up with a scientist, a lawyer and a teacher. But all combined, none of us make as much money as my brother with his liberal arts degrees.

 

[Kooky]

No.
I think that people who cannot rise in education can find good livelihoods in everyday jobs.
I'll bet that you agree about that as well.

Some can, others can't; in either case, it doesn't look to me like the job market for lower educated workers is really any less precarious than the market for highly educated ones - if anything, it's worse. Those cracks about working at a fast food chain apply far, far more to those with lower educations.

Arguably, one reason why skilled trade jobs are so highly paid is precisely because they are so scarce, and because they are kept scarce; the term "skilled trade" in itself already implies a gatekeeping process that keeps a lot of potential candidates out, and it is this gatekeeping that keeps the supply of tradespeople limited and, consequentially, the price of a skilled tradesperson profitable.

 

[oldbadger]

Some can, others can't; in either case, it doesn't look to me like the job market for lower educated workers is really any less precarious than the market for highly educated ones - if anything, it's worse. Those cracks about working at a fast food chain apply far, far more to those with lower educations.

Arguably, one reason why skilled trade jobs are so highly paid is precisely because they are so scarce, and because they are kept scarce; the term "skilled trade" in itself already implies a gatekeeping process that keeps a lot of potential candidates out, and it is this gatekeeping that keeps the supply of tradespeople limited and, consequentially, the price of a skilled tradesperson profitable.

Any jobs are good jobs, and, of course, that includes all jobs. We all have abilities and disabilities, we just have to do our best, I guess.

Where I live skilled jobs are simply jobs that require certain skills. To install electrical devices an electrician has to have permits and licences; I can't knock that because unskilled unlicenced operatives would kill themselves and others. Same with Heavy Godds drivers, they need to be able to handle those huge vehicles safely. I had my licences taken away when I was 70yrs because I didn't opt to take the medical tests and didn't want to drive any heavy stuff anymore. That's cool.