BenFranklinFan
Happiness is a journey, not a destination.
American Unitarian Conference A great introduction to general Unitarian beliefs. This type of Christianity ranges from Biblical to highly liberal.
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Manual of Unitarian Beliefs
- Thread starter BenFranklinFan
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Here is something else of interest
I go to a Universalist Unitarian church sometimes when I'm not at work. I didn't come across the tone in the link in your OP. There are a lot of ex-christians there and still some dogma since it used to be part of the church. In the video it talks about the basics of the belief and some history.
To quote from your link....
" § 9. Unitarians, strictly speaking, are those Christians who reject the Church doctrine of the Trinity, and do not believe that Jesus is God the Son, equal with the Father, or that he is the Supreme Being. "
I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and we also reject the trinity....but we are not Unitarians.
" Unitarians also usually agree in rejecting the system of doctrines known as Orthodox, as we shall see in the course of this Manual. As these doctrines constitute a logical system, of which the doctrine of the Trinity is the keystone, when that is removed the arch falls. "
JW's also believe this....we withdrew from Christendom's belief system over 100 years ago after careful examination of their doctrines. We are still not Unitarians.
" § 10. Those who accept the Unitarian belief should openly profess it and should unite in Unitarian churches, because, if we believe that Jesus was not the Supreme Being, and that he taught that he was not, we are bound to testify openly to this conviction."
The Christianity taught by Jesus Christ leaves no room for personal interpretation of the scriptures. We must hold all beliefs in common as the first Christians did. (1 Corinthians 1:10) The command given by Jesus before he departed for heaven was to "go and make disciples" and to preach the good news of God's Kingdom in all the world. That is what his disciples are doing. It is not what I see Unitarians doing. Christ said he would back this work....and yet it is shirked by most "Christians".
(Matthew 10:11-14; Matthew 23:14; Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 5:42; Acts 20:20) Why?
"If, according to Christ and his Apostles, there is no such God as the "Trinity," it must be wrong to appear to worship this God, who is unknown to the Scriptures of the New Testament. Moreover, it has been found that wherever Unitarian churches are established they become centres of movements in behalf of education, philanthropy, and social reforms. "
Is this what Jesus said his church should become? Is there hatred for the Unitarians? (John 15:18-21) Most people have no idea who they are or even what they believe because its not presented in any set formula. God always structured his worship and his people knew what they believed because it was all contained in God's word, and there were men appointed by God to give spiritual guidance.
The 12 apostles were not religiously educated men and did not promote anything but a sound spiritual education. Neither they nor Jesus attended any of the Rabbinical schools.
The generosity of Christians was epitomized in the parable of the Good Samaritan. Help people when you encounter them and render assistance according to their need.
There were no social reforms because to become a Christian meant that you reformed yourself. What others did was up to them, but you could impart the Kingdom message and and hope this would lead them to reform themselves too. Christians were to be "no part" of this world.....not its aims, or its politics, not its materialistic lifestyles, or its immorality. (John 17:14; John 18:36)
In Christianity, disciples were taught what God's word said...and they were guided by men appointed to guide and teach them. There was unity of belief and purpose.....no one was free to believe whatever they wished.
IMO, all Unitarianism does is cater to those who are indecisive. They just want an easy way to be Christians without having to travel the "cramped and narrow road". (Matthew 7:13-14)
How does Unitarianism fulfill the commands of Jesus whilst promoting the truth? There is no truth...its is a vague and hazy outline as far as I can tell.
Please correct me if I am wrong....
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I've gone (and probably still go) to a universalist church. Can I offer some insight on all your verses?
If you can clarify those points for me with scripture, that would be good. If you don't have scripture then it will be meaningless to me.
Unitarianism seems to appeal to those whose beliefs conflict but because there is no set belief structure...it doesn't matter...everyone is saved anyway.
How is that consistent with anything Jesus taught?
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
If you don't mind learning about the religion, I don't mind going through the scriptures. If you want to use scriptures to contrast with unitarianism, I can cut it short and say the bible doesn't support it. UU was a part of the church but because they denied the divinity of christ, don't believe in the literal view of the bible, and describe god in a way all people can partake in and commune (for lack of better words), it won't be at all like scripture.
So, before I go through the scriptures, are you going to talk about the religion (pros, cons, general conversation) or against it?
I love debating but I do put effort into some of these posts. Do you want to learn about the religion and swap religious views and contradictions without needing to prove each other wrong or would you rather argue?
"Ex Christians" ??? It "used to be part of the church??
Then what is the point of debating? Is it Christian or not? Is it a little bit Christian? Is that the same as being a little bit pregnant?
There are some similarities in beliefs, but the UU has taken a direction that is the opposite to what we have taken. We are Christian and proud of it.
We know what we believe and why we believe it. What is the value of this "church"?
As a Christian UA, I have a need to defend the truth when I see someone adopt a poor imitation of it. From watching your video, this religion apparently has no compass....and no rudder. It is a 'floating' religion that tries to make everyone right with God whether they follow the teachings of Christ and the Bible or not.
Does that make them real Christians? Who guides them in their thinking? Shouldn't they guide people in Christ's teachings? Is he the son of God or just a good man who came to teach us a few things that can be ignored if they choose to?
It appears to be a pretty weak way to serve God IMO, though if it promotes love and kind deeds towards others, its not all bad...but then the same can be said for most other religions.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
The reason I asked if you want to learn something from other belief systems is that arguing isn't a debate. Instead, we overlook the otherside in fueled (whether expressed or not) the otherside's argument in their validity to prove our own validity. It looses sight on debate. Arguments try to prove the other wrong at expense of the other person's emotions.
On the other hand,
Debates, both sides are considered for their validity in order to contrast the validity of each other's claims. It attacks the claim not the person; and, it takes into consideration both sides before stating a counter argument/statement of rebuttal.
To me, RF means nothing without engaging in good conversations and debates. If it's just arguing, that is meaningless to me. Whether it comes from scriptures or not, it's the logic and understanding behind the argument.
With that said.
Yes. A lot of off shoots and christianity rejecters don't agree with the trinity. Of course, that doesn't make them JW or LDS for that matter. What makes one a Unitarian Universalist is they believe all people are worthy to be saved. Unitarians (if I remember correctly) rejected hell and damnation. Universalist said all people are saved. There is no original sin and we are "saved" by our actions and conduct on earth not our beliefs and future-oriented promises.
As for the bible supporting it, since it is another faith and it is not christianity, you won't find the bible supporting a lot U.U. views.
I noticed that rejection of The Church is a high motivator in the U.U. perspective. Since it was part of the Church, I can see why.
Rejecting the trinity doesn't make you a unitarian. Believing all people are worth their eternal life. Conducting good actions in the name of and within the divine. Believing that diversity is a example of one community and wanting to meet people where they at in regards to faith is more Unitarian oriented. If one god is above others. People who speak for god is present. Something like that as JW has it, no, they are different.
But, of course, you can still learn from differences without it needing to line up with JW.
I guess the way one goes into U.U. depends on the church. When I went, they offered multireligious education classes and a statement of joining the community. There is some distaste for christianity in their sermons, which is a turnoff. I don't like belittling things I disagree with. Outside of that, they share a few similar views as JW in regards to jesus theology. Nothing more.
Unitarians Universalist don't spread the good news. It's not a christian sect. They do have charity and food pantries. They offer support to minorities with whom christianity rejects. They offer ESL classes and they welcome all people into their sanctuary without treating them different by race (I'm the only african american there). There values aren't believe or die. So, it's not like JW.
Interesting to compare, though, I agree with you on that.
Most people dont, you're right. We have churches on every block, so I just bumped into it after coming from Mass. My neighbor invited me to a support group. It wasn't appropriate for me; but, I learned about it and attended sermons off and on ever since.
They believe god is defined in many forms depending on the person not on scripture. They also believe our actions is what determines how god (or whatever) works through us rather than belief and need to conform to scripture. In other words, scripture (the physical one) doesn't hold the keys to eternal life as it does in JW and many protestant evangalist christians views.
It seems like UU agree with this too. Some biblical concepts and messages make sense. The bible isn't special. We can learn from it just in UU sense, our "salvation" isn't dependent on whether the message of respect and seeing the divine in all people, on scripture. It's a tool, I noticed, they use. It's a mixture. In sermon, I hear the reverend say Amen. Then others Blessed Be.
It is part Pagan (in christian terminology) and have pagan relics and prayers to represent and bring people together as a whole. A lot of the songs I noticed are striped of the word god. I think it depends on the church. The one here must have been heavily influenced by our local catholic church (as the church seems to have influences on business etc around here) that would make members view christianity in such a negative light. They share that with JW too.
I don't know if you've been in a UU church? I hear JW is all pushy, always want people to join their faith, push pamplets under your doors, and are rude and evangalist. In my personal experience, I never had that before with my JW friends. We disagreed on a lot of things and, of course, but they did want to learn about other religions. It was nice to blow away the bias people have over religions. So, like religions, I guess it depends on the person.
The later comment, I think it's a political thing not a religious one. It's not taking the easy way out. I mean, unless you want them to be JW, they will always be wrong, right?
Depends on your perspective. From JW, they don't. They're not christians.
But, they do reference jesus as in his messages. They do take a lot from scripture in regards to learning from it and applying the humanity of jesus in their actions. That doesn't make them christians.
It is vague, yes. When I first went, it seemed more of a social community than a religion. Not bad or good. I can see remnants from christian practices such as order of liturgy. We do sing sons etc.
Truth comes in action and loving others. Whether one believes and follows scriptures to the T isn't the truth they promote. Its more about what you can do for others and self as a community rather than seeing others as faltered because they differ. Ideally, that's their theology. The church I go to is working on that. They share bias too as do JW with christondom. No one is perfect.
"Ex Christians" ??? It "used to be part of the church??
Yep. The video above has a better outline of the connection. Universalists, if I remember, believe all people are part of the divine; no black and white. Unitarians didn't believe in damnation. They both believed in god but didn't limit god to the jews and romans (etc on forward). It was a rejection of christian theology. I don't think they heard of JW. From quick research, UU was founded by the mid 1600s in the writings of John Biddle (1615-62) and Jehovah's Witnesses originated in the United States in the 1870s among followers of Christian Restorationist minister Charles Taze Russell. Didn't feel like going through the searches.
So, age in religion doesn't mean one is right or wrong. That's another truth of UU. No judgement.
The only reason I like it is because of the diversity in views. However, the history and the aftermath of the church is a turn off given, like JW, it's not too happy with the affects of christiandom.
Then what is the point of debating? Is it Christian or not? Is it a little bit Christian? Is that the same as being a little bit pregnant?
It is not. It was christian but it broke off because of theology issues.
It is not JW; so, I'm not sure if you want to learn something from their beliefs?
True. Different religions and intentions. That isn't wrong either.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Continued.
I don't see it that negatively. It isn't old back in the jewish days or anything like that. I think it's more social than religious. You have to go to a sermon or so and drop the bias to understand the foundation (which it has one) more. When I read about it years ago with the bahai site, I just flipped the page, and read something else.
The religion doesn't try to make people right with god. They promote that people find their own meaning of how to be right with god without labels, bias, and black and white judgemental thinking.
With defending truth, UU isn't JW. You don't think kindly of other christian denominations; so, I honestly don't know what you mean by truth. JW is so judgemental in their theology that its hard to learn truth when it's defined as "but jesus was harsh so so are we." I didn't get that from JW themselves in person. If I went to the convention they invited me to, I probably got a sense more of what you all believe. I honestly dont feel the theology is that off. I just feel the evangalism is counterproductive.
Oh. They don't follow the bible as catholics, protestants, and JW define it. It's not their foundation; so, I wouldn't expect them to see eye to eye with you.
No. I didn't know there was such thing as a "real" christian. I know all christians are growing in christ, though. At least, progression in learning truth is more what I experience rather than who is right or wrong.
They believe the divine and community guides them.
No. It's diverse. I think the church is more social than theological. In another video it mentions UU is a covenant church rather than a creed one. Its based on actions not beliefs.
I think the later jesus is "just a man" like you and I who have divinity in us. I don't know how to define divinity noneless god, but I do know there is no one-person-hierarchy.
Since it isn't christian, I wouldn't say they should follow scripture as is. However, even christians don't follow scripture the same way, so...
Yes. The latter two points, it's not all that bad. Their definitions (not definition) of god is different than christians.
But, what is the JW definition of god?
I hear force, deity, love, spirit (?), mind of christ, and a few others.
I'm not familiar with jewish definitions since so far I know they don't define god, so what is the JW definition of the nature of god?
Remember. The bible describes god's nature not defines it.
I don't see it that negatively. It isn't old back in the jewish days or anything like that. I think it's more social than religious. You have to go to a sermon or so and drop the bias to understand the foundation (which it has one) more. When I read about it years ago with the bahai site, I just flipped the page, and read something else.
The religion doesn't try to make people right with god. They promote that people find their own meaning of how to be right with god without labels, bias, and black and white judgemental thinking.
With defending truth, UU isn't JW. You don't think kindly of other christian denominations; so, I honestly don't know what you mean by truth. JW is so judgemental in their theology that its hard to learn truth when it's defined as "but jesus was harsh so so are we." I didn't get that from JW themselves in person. If I went to the convention they invited me to, I probably got a sense more of what you all believe. I honestly dont feel the theology is that off. I just feel the evangalism is counterproductive.
Oh. They don't follow the bible as catholics, protestants, and JW define it. It's not their foundation; so, I wouldn't expect them to see eye to eye with you.
No. I didn't know there was such thing as a "real" christian. I know all christians are growing in christ, though. At least, progression in learning truth is more what I experience rather than who is right or wrong.
They believe the divine and community guides them.
No. It's diverse. I think the church is more social than theological. In another video it mentions UU is a covenant church rather than a creed one. Its based on actions not beliefs.
I think the later jesus is "just a man" like you and I who have divinity in us. I don't know how to define divinity noneless god, but I do know there is no one-person-hierarchy.
Since it isn't christian, I wouldn't say they should follow scripture as is. However, even christians don't follow scripture the same way, so...
Yes. The latter two points, it's not all that bad. Their definitions (not definition) of god is different than christians.
But, what is the JW definition of god?
I hear force, deity, love, spirit (?), mind of christ, and a few others.
I'm not familiar with jewish definitions since so far I know they don't define god, so what is the JW definition of the nature of god?
Remember. The bible describes god's nature not defines it.
There is no 'definition' of God as such. What we know about God comes only from his written word. The Bible describes him as a spirit...Almighty....Omniscient...the Creator of all things....our heavenly Father. Jesus was his Father's representative, who so accurately reflected him; was so like him in all aspects, that he said whoever saw him, had seen the Father also. Like father, like son.
The Bible describes God's personality....his sovereignty....his expectations....his desires....his laws....his purpose, and how he will accomplish it. He gives us opportunity to become part of his purpose, but only if we want to. He forces no one to worship him or to even believe in him.....but his purpose will go ahead, with us or without us.
His nature remains obscure because we only know "who" God is....not "what" he is. Perhaps will know some day?
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Was thinking.
Edit.
If you're talking to a friend and the convo seems off in the conversation and you find out its a machine (kinda like someone saying hello on their answering machine and whoever calls thinks they are talking to a person instead of a machine) and we feel slightly embarrassed (or another word) because we weren't talking to a human.
So, we know who owns the phone, their smile, and they love pizza. However, because that other is out of town on vacation, we do want to know whether we are talking to a machine or is she back from vacation. Knowing what something is helps with the context of who that person is.
In short: Knowing the noun helps us know the function of the pronoun.
Who exactly is just? Who exactly loves all people and doesn't judge? He is a creator; what exactly is a creator? Is it a force? Energy? Atoms? Is he a deity like Zues? An invisible ???
These are very important questions when you are evangalizing to people who never heard or understood any god at all.
The bible explains so much stuff about god (adjectives). Uses proper pronouns (The Lord, upper class He, and Messiah), but what does the word Jehovah actually mean? Who exactly does it define?
If you're talking about someone just, you could be talking about a monkey for all I know. So, basics is a huge foundation for god-education.
With UU, I think that's their intent to have god-conversations through various mediums. It's not scriptural; and, never will be. I'm sure there are some good things to learn from it, though? Right?
BenFranklinFan
Happiness is a journey, not a destination.
I was a regular participant in my local UU congregation, but never achieved membership status (my choice). My acceptance of the Bible and agreement with the Apostles Creed made me feel too "Christian" for UUism, though there are most likely many that will accept my beliefs. I do, however, commend the Association's approach to religion.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Yeah. It does have a less Christian leaning. The one I attend more often is influenced by Christian bias. It's sutle but there.
The video, I like how he presents the UU theology. He does use the bible but in a different view rather than negative.
I'm used to Catholic type devotion and do like the church so I kinds get ya. I agree. Their approach is good.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
@Deeje
On your free time, this may help a bit to look at another person's point of view of god. Feel free to put it down if you must; but, it's just informational purposes only. Unitarian Universalist Congregration of Northern Chautauqua I'm not a pro but I understand this view of god a lot more than any Christianity (JW and LDS included) views of god and scripture. Hope this is a informative read.
On your free time, this may help a bit to look at another person's point of view of god. Feel free to put it down if you must; but, it's just informational purposes only. Unitarian Universalist Congregration of Northern Chautauqua I'm not a pro but I understand this view of god a lot more than any Christianity (JW and LDS included) views of god and scripture. Hope this is a informative read.
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There is a substantial difference between Unitarian, and Unitarian Universalist. Did you guys clear that up, or are you talking of two different things?
Unitarian vs. Unitarian Universalism
Unitarian vs. Unitarian Universalism
It was disturbing to me actually. Their view of God is the antithesis of what is taught in scripture. To them, God is not who scripture says he is....Jesus is not who he said he was, and basically you can just make up your own beliefs and fit right in.....God has never operated like that among humans....ever. He is a God of order with one set of beliefs and one set of instructions for all.
The name says it all really. Its the "everyone's saved" easy religion where you can basically believe whatever you wish. (Matthew 7:13-14) The easy road IMO.
We have a church here in Australia called the Uniting Church. It was an amalgamation of three churches who were close to disappearing because their numbers were dwindling so rapidly, so this "uniting" of churches was their last chance to keep their doors open. The three churches had conflicting doctrines that would never allow them to call themselves the "United Church", so "Uniting" simply meant that they had agreed to disagree for the sake of their survival.
I see UU churches a lazy man's religion...in fact it is no religion at all. From the Bible's perspective, it is an excuse for religion....sorry. What is the point of it?
Isn't it just another way to be spiritual without being "religious"? Like taking off your tight shoes and putting on a comfy pair of slippers.
Everyone is free to choose....but I couldn't deal with any of that.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Shrugs.
Yes. They don't see god and the bible in the manner JW and christians see it, of course. The first time I went, they referred to god as "the god of our understanding." Maybe the word god is a loaded word for how they describe/don't describe god.
It's everyone follows their own views of god. It's freedom of religious views coming together to worship within the god of each person's understanding. I was reading that not all churches emphasize universal salvation. The reason they don't is because you have people of all backgrounds, christian, atheist, muslim, wiccan, etc come together in one purpose of worship.
Nothing wrong with having the freedom to follow their heart. Personally, I rather follow my heart than lie to myself to God. Everyone is different.
I had to look that word up. Yeah. A lot of churches are churches because of the politics involved. I was reading that UU got their symbols and history right after WW2. One of the members back when was held by naizism; so, the church/organization helped to save their followers.
Where I'm at, the only thing I'm uncomfortable with is the underlining rejection of christianity without actually saying it. I disagree with people's theologies but I don't belittle them in and of itself.
Lazy. I guess I can see why you say that. Excuse the comparison, but JW and Catholics are pretty ritualistic in their own theology and right. So, to both denomination of christians, seeing a church that has no christian confirmed structure without proselytizing would make the followers seem lazy.
When I left the church, one time I went to mass at a Pentecostal church walking distance from me. They had some of the rituals from the catholic church; but, no Eucharist. I caught myself judging them because, like my ex friend would say, they "don't have the real christ" or they are missing the full communion. Another reason I didn't follow christian beliefs (or bible) is because it made me see people in a bad light. It hurt my heart.
But, yes. The lack of rituals and customs of diversity is a strike contrast with JW teachings, by far.
Yes. That's the message I got. I keep forgetting you're not in the States (profile). In the U.S. we value independence and "helping oneself." Working for oneself. One's own retirement plan. Things like that. So, having a place where one can freely and spiritually find connection with oneself, god (of their understanding), people, and environment works well for them.
Eh. Rituals aren't for all people.
Yeah. Haha. It is not for everyone, I know that. I said that about the Church too. Everyone has their unique path in spiritual development. UU feel respecting other people's path where they at is foremost.
There was another video that I liked by the same reverend. He was talking about Meeting people where they're at. I've always agreed with this. Anyway. His child came home from school and jumped up and down talking of jesus (christian school). His son lead his UU parents in prayer. His father was about to correct his child but then stopped and realize each person has their own path. Instead of lecturing the boy on the "mystery of the cosmos", he talked to the boy where he was at without influence that jesus wasn't the right way. Of course, being a child his mind can stay with christ or go somewhere else, but that staying where one is at is highly valued.
Reminds me of christ with that similar concept: being flesh (however defined) to meet believers where they at. I don't know exactly how JW view or define sacrifice but that's the closest to describe seeing a person eye to eye.
It's an interesting religion (it has his traditions, customs, theology, and practice), but not for all people, I agree.
Yes. They don't see god and the bible in the manner JW and christians see it, of course. The first time I went, they referred to god as "the god of our understanding." Maybe the word god is a loaded word for how they describe/don't describe god.
It's everyone follows their own views of god. It's freedom of religious views coming together to worship within the god of each person's understanding. I was reading that not all churches emphasize universal salvation. The reason they don't is because you have people of all backgrounds, christian, atheist, muslim, wiccan, etc come together in one purpose of worship.
Nothing wrong with having the freedom to follow their heart. Personally, I rather follow my heart than lie to myself to God. Everyone is different.
I had to look that word up. Yeah. A lot of churches are churches because of the politics involved. I was reading that UU got their symbols and history right after WW2. One of the members back when was held by naizism; so, the church/organization helped to save their followers.
Where I'm at, the only thing I'm uncomfortable with is the underlining rejection of christianity without actually saying it. I disagree with people's theologies but I don't belittle them in and of itself.
Lazy. I guess I can see why you say that. Excuse the comparison, but JW and Catholics are pretty ritualistic in their own theology and right. So, to both denomination of christians, seeing a church that has no christian confirmed structure without proselytizing would make the followers seem lazy.
When I left the church, one time I went to mass at a Pentecostal church walking distance from me. They had some of the rituals from the catholic church; but, no Eucharist. I caught myself judging them because, like my ex friend would say, they "don't have the real christ" or they are missing the full communion. Another reason I didn't follow christian beliefs (or bible) is because it made me see people in a bad light. It hurt my heart.
But, yes. The lack of rituals and customs of diversity is a strike contrast with JW teachings, by far.
Yes. That's the message I got. I keep forgetting you're not in the States (profile). In the U.S. we value independence and "helping oneself." Working for oneself. One's own retirement plan. Things like that. So, having a place where one can freely and spiritually find connection with oneself, god (of their understanding), people, and environment works well for them.
Eh. Rituals aren't for all people.
Yeah. Haha. It is not for everyone, I know that. I said that about the Church too. Everyone has their unique path in spiritual development. UU feel respecting other people's path where they at is foremost.
There was another video that I liked by the same reverend. He was talking about Meeting people where they're at. I've always agreed with this. Anyway. His child came home from school and jumped up and down talking of jesus (christian school). His son lead his UU parents in prayer. His father was about to correct his child but then stopped and realize each person has their own path. Instead of lecturing the boy on the "mystery of the cosmos", he talked to the boy where he was at without influence that jesus wasn't the right way. Of course, being a child his mind can stay with christ or go somewhere else, but that staying where one is at is highly valued.
Reminds me of christ with that similar concept: being flesh (however defined) to meet believers where they at. I don't know exactly how JW view or define sacrifice but that's the closest to describe seeing a person eye to eye.
It's an interesting religion (it has his traditions, customs, theology, and practice), but not for all people, I agree.
Firemorphic
Activist Membrane
I agree, it seems a shallow form of universalism to me. It's like thinking a photo is the object itself displayed in a photo. You can see the photo but you can't touch the object or know what it's made out of.
Universalism can be done right but it shouldn't be treated as a virtue (aka "I'm a universalist and you're not, so I'm a better person"), however in my own research of the UU, it just doesn't cut the mustard for me intellectually or spiritually.
Since satan is described in the Bible as a god, I would not like someone sitting next to me giving worship to God's adversary in the same service. There is no such being as "the god of our understanding"....he is a figment of the individual's imagination. What is the point of worshipping a fictitious god? Where is that supposed to lead people except to the logical place that Jesus described? (Matthew 7:13-14) The polar opposite to where genuine disciples of Jesus are headed.
Its a con of the worst order IMO. Just enough to sound spiritual and attend a "church" service, but not worshipping anything real, not living by any set rules. Its nothing but a spiritual passifier as far as I can see.....it makes you feel good but it has no milk.....no spiritual nourishment at all. What will you all do when Jesus comes to ask whether you have done the will of the Father....or just your own? (Matthew 7:21-23)
You think this is what Jesus came to promote? You cannot mix true worship and false. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) Like adding cyanide to a glass of clean drinking water. If I said it had 2 drops of that poison in it, would you drink it? How about 10 drops?....20 drops? How much poison is tolerable or acceptable to you? I wouldn't drink it if it had one drop of poison. I'd be looking for another water source.
This is why everyone has a choice. Hearts are "treacherous" things though. (Jeremiah 17:9) They can be a friend or an enemy if they are not educated to respect the Creator and worship him in the correct way....his way, not ours.
It pretends to be something it isn't. Very sneaky.
What rituals do you think we perform? The one thing I love about our meetings is the lack of ritual. They are interactive and involve teaching from God's word and a sharing of knowledge with one another.
Our preaching is a command from Jesus....someone to ignore in UU churches apparently.
It has nothing much to do with rituals and customs because we don't have any to make that kind of comparison. It has more to do with the fact that the main person who is supposed to be worshipped is MIA. What is a church without a god....you may as well be Scientologists.
Americans I find, are very different to people of other western nations in so many ways. You are taught to be so focused on America, that it seems as if the rest of the world is just something that exists in your shadow. Americans never seem to realize how disadvantaged they are because no one seems to want you to make comparisons. Sorry, but I wouldn't live in America if you paid me. Capitalism is God there. Don't get sick in America.....don't lose your job or need medication. Its scary.
There is a wide gulf between respecting someone's right to their unique spiritual path, and sending them to their death.
I would illustrate it something like this......If I am a good Christian and I am sitting on my front porch reading my Bible after a very severe storm the night before. A flash flood has washed a good deal of the road around the corner into a deep ravine. As a good Christian, do I continue sitting on my porch reading my Bible and respecting everyone's unique right to head around that corner to certain death because I respect their right to travel that road in their own way? Or do I go down onto the road and wave my arms like a mad thing trying to warn them of the danger? I can't make them listen, but if I did my best to warn them, and they ignored me, their deaths are on their own hands...not mine. (Ezekiel 3:17-21) If I deliberately lead people to their death by teaching them lies, then I am a murderer.
Christ's humanity was not without purpose. His flesh was to to be sacrificed for the ones who accepted him. He was not sent to people so that they could feel at home with just a human.....He was sent to correct the lost ones and lead them to life. It meant changing lives and habits and ingrained attitudes.
Sort of like Jesus coming to America and telling people to put down their weapons. How many of them would? The gun culture is so ingrained that the rest of the civilized world just shakes their head at such a mentality.
Not for anyone who is serious about worship IMO. It looks like a way to have your cake and eat it too. Sorry.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Naw. They came together later on in history. There are a few videos that describe how the two came together through political agreements about disagreement with church with church theology.
Took awhile to find:
Unitarian-Universalism (commonly referred to as UU) is the result of the 1961 merging of two, pluralistic, Christian-based religious movements (even though many Unitarian-Universalists claim they are not a Christian denomination). Unitarianism was originally organized during the 16th century C.E. Reformation in Poland, Transylvania, and England, and then later developed from a break with the Protestant Puritans in New England. The Unitarians reject the doctrine of the Triune nature of God, which is held common among most Christian denominations. Unitarian-Universalism Origins, Unitarian-Universalism History, Unitarian-Universalism Beliefs
I like the social and acceptance nature of the church. I wouldn't say it is a church in the traditional sense. The christian influence I guess varies by church rather than the religion as a whole. Interesting faith.