Mandela Effect Moves South America East

[Twilight Hue]

Certainly flat maps distort but not globes with lines of longitude. It is not just me. If you are interested read stories like in post #50 of a guy who lived in Houston and Bogota.

Maps are unreliable as history attests throughout the ages of mapmaking and topographics.

Printed media changes dimension all the time. Now if something real like satellite imagery were differing, it might be more profound.

While satellite imagery can be photoshopped, it would be exceedingly difficult to make two seamless differing images that can be zoomed down close like Google earth.

 

[George-ananda]

Maps are unreliable as history attests throughout the ages of mapmaking and topographics.

Printed media changes dimension all the time. Now if something real like satellite imagery were differing, it might be more profound.

While satellite imagery can be photoshopped, it would be exceedingly difficult to make two seamless differing images that can be zoomed down close like Google earth.

You would have a point even on a globe if we were just talking about small changes, but we are talking dramatic here like a huge continent moving two or three time zones.

I wouldn't believe any of this is possible either if I wasn't one of the many experiencers.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You would have a point even on a globe if we were just talking about small changes, but we are talking dramatic here like a huge continent moving two or three time zones.

I wouldn't believe any of this is possible either if I wasn't one of the many experiencers.

Aside from maps, I've seen examples of the Monopoly Mister Moneybags, Oscar Meyer, Froot Loops cereal, and of course Nelson Mandala's death hence the name.

I find it to be more the mind and mental allusions than a parrall universe than anything else.

Even I failed a few times from what I thought was, and what it is at present.

It dosent make me personally think there are actual jumps between universes occuring that we somehow morph into and out of, although the experiences are rather startling time to time. Our minds happen to be like that time to time. Much as we like, it's not as stable so as it can be 100 percent accurate in relaying and noting subtile instances and recollections.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am sure that one could draw Map A differently such that the key point is the longitudinal co-ordinates of South America are much westward as in Map A.

But however you do it, you're going to distort something. The person who made Map A deleted the Isthmus of Panama; re-draw Map A to put the isthmus back in and you'll create some wonky condition further west - maybe you'll delete Guatemala or some of the Mexican states instead. However you do it, there are going to be ridiculous implications.

I do not have a clear memory of how the isthmus of Panama looked in my childhood memory. But there definitely was a Panama and a Panama Canal in my memory.

... but the fact that you didn't even notice that Panama was missing until I pointed it out suggests that your memory of geography isn't as good as you think it is.

I don't disagree with that actually but that doesn't mean my memories are wrong either. I am saying it may well be a mystery we don't understand and may never understand it in the mainstream paradigm of reality. It's out there yes, but so is existence in the first place. Glitches in the matrix??? could effect what people accurately remember experiencing. It may never be understandable in our mainstream paradigm is what I'm saying. But that doesn't mean a threshold can not be passed in which I will say 'What the bleep do we know?. I think our mainstream version of a single common reality for all may not be the ultimate truth.

This is nothing more than elaborate version of omphalism.

If this was the only person in existence with those memories of South America's location, I would be quite quick to dismiss him. These stories are straws on the camel's back. I consider quantity, quality and consistency when forming a judgment on paranormal matters.

Except you really don't consider quantity. For every person you could find with a story that you think reinforces your viewpoint, there are dozens saying that this viewpoint is ridiculous, and many psychologists explaining how false memory processes can explain the effects you're seeing. If you were really being guided by quantity, you would have rejected this hypothesis a long time ago.

Instead, you've manufactured a worldview where there's absolutely no evidence that would cause you to change your position. This is not the behaviour of someone who's interested in truth.

So the reality of the Mandela Effect is a judgment and those that believe they have experienced it are more likely to believe it. Also as discussed with @columbus , my overall judgment is that reality is weirder than we can ever get our heads around. Yes, this makes me more open-minded to beyond the normal claims but that does not mean I throw common sense out the window either. It is a personal judgment were no one can prove their position to the other.

I don't think you're open-minded at all. In fact, you seem very closed-minded and quick to dismiss or discount the possibility of naturalistic explanations as soon as you find a paranormal alternative hypothesis.

Even you would probably have a threshold experience to make you a believer in the Mandela Effect. You never responded to my Mickey Mouse example, by the way.

That's right: I didn't. I didn't see the example as useful and I didn't want to head down a rabbit hole.

 

[George-ananda]

But however you do it, you're going to distort something. The person who made Map A deleted the Isthmus of Panama; re-draw Map A to put the isthmus back in and you'll create some wonky condition further west - maybe you'll delete Guatemala or some of the Mexican states instead. However you do it, there are going to be ridiculous implications.


... but the fact that you didn't even notice that Panama was missing until I pointed it out suggests that your memory of geography isn't as good as you think it is.

I always said Panama existed, but shaped and located differently.

This is nothing more than elaborate version of omphalism.

That term doesn't apply here as this claim is not made to serve any purpose. It is just people giving their honest experiences that don't make sense in our everyday view of reality.

Except you really don't consider quantity. For every person you could find with a story that you think reinforces your viewpoint, there are dozens saying that this viewpoint is ridiculous, and many psychologists explaining how false memory processes can explain the effects you're seeing. If you were really being guided by quantity, you would have rejected this hypothesis a long time ago.
Instead, you've manufactured a worldview where there's absolutely no evidence that would cause you to change your position. This is not the behaviour of someone who's interested in truth.

I am interested in truth. I am not afraid to admit that the truth may well be beyond my understanding. I am not overly quick to dismiss evidence that doesn't fit conventional understanding.

I don't think you're open-minded at all. In fact, you seem very closed-minded and quick to dismiss or discount the possibility of naturalistic explanations as soon as you find a paranormal alternative hypothesis.

I always consider normal explanations first but when they really don't seem to fit (or seem like an overly ambitious attempt to keep the universe contained in our box of understanding) then I become interested in 'beyond the normal' explanations. I'm still listening to all possible normal explanations on this subject but I am yet to hear a satisfying one.

That's right: I didn't. I didn't see the example as useful and I didn't want to head down a rabbit hole.

Well in a universe without rabbit holes, alternate realities, paranormal, glitches in the matrix, etc. then your view would have to be the only possible correct one.

Probably to your shock on the Mandela Effect, I do not accept every example presented and think some people are just going hog-wild with this. Some of these people lack disciplined reasoning skills (IMO).

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Oh, for christ's sake. I was hoping we could keep at least some of the ever-accelerating nonsense out of RF.

 

[George-ananda]

Oh, for christ's sake. I was hoping we could keep at least some of the ever-accelerating nonsense out of RF.

Yeah, we need to stick to the billiard ball universe....good enough for grandpa

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yeah, we need to stick to the billiard ball universe....good enough for grandpa

No, just some rational discernment would be a good start.

 

[George-ananda]

No, just some rational discernment would be a good start.

Well on that point, we agree.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Well on that point, we agree.

Your agreement is merely semantical.

 

[George-ananda]

More like A.

Does Curitiba being in the -3GTE time zone (and almost -2) seem normal to you or do you feel like you remember or feel it should be like -4 or -5?

 

[LuisDantas]

Does Curitiba being in the -3GTE time zone (and almost -2) seem normal to you or do you feel like you remember or feel it should be like -4 or -5?

It has ever been GMT -3. It is true that I lived in Brasilia and Rio before that, but I am confident that all three were ever GMT -3. I paid some attention to the matter back in the late 1970s.

 

[Nietzsche]

I always said Panama existed, but shaped and located differently.

I didn't even notice the Panama Canal was completely gone in the A-Map. This poses a problem even if somehow history played out 1 for 1 in this "alternate universe". The Canal was built for two reasons.

1. Easier shipping between the Atlantic and Pacific, no need to go around the tip of South America. You cut large swathes of the trip out entirely, meaning you can ship more in less time.

2. The United States needed a way to quickly move around their navy. With two large coastlines to protect, the Navy was always split in two. If one side needed more ships, they had to wait a very long time to get there. Those weeks or months it would take to get, say, a squadron from the Pacific Fleet to the Atlantic Fleet could result in an enemy force over-whelming the Atlantic Fleet and gaining naval dominance, and by the time the Pacific Fleet made it there it would be as equally out-matched as the Atlantic one was, meaning there was a serious possibility of a foe destroying the American navy piecemeal with a force half the size of the American fleet(because said American fleet's strength was always halved).

Another thing; again assuming that somehow history played out 100% the same up until a certain point, the massive increase in distance between the Caribbean Islands and South America would've completely changed the warfare between the European powers in that region. Areas that were strategically important, even vital, in our world would not have been here.

Again, from a purely human-development and history point of view, this makes no sense. Ignoring ecological differences, ignoring atmospheric differences, ignoring temperature differences, human history as we recognize it could not have played out the same way in this world. It just isn't possible.

It simply isn't possible for me to over-stress how much different this world would be from our own.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Does Curitiba being in the -3GTE time zone (and almost -2) seem normal to you or do you feel like you remember or feel it should be like -4 or -5?

Oh, come on. You don't have a clear memory of even the general shape of Panama, but your memory (Edit: from your childhood in Michigan) is crystal clear of the exact location of Brazil's 8th largest city? Give me a break.

Edit: without looking it up, drawcor describe where you think Fortaleza is on a map of Brazil. If your geographical memory is this good, you should have no problem with this.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

People's desire to be special instead of faulty results in all types of silliness.

 

[George-ananda]

I didn't even notice the Panama Canal was completely gone in the A-Map. This poses a problem even if somehow history played out 1 for 1 in this "alternate universe". The Canal was built for two reasons.

1. Easier shipping between the Atlantic and Pacific, no need to go around the tip of South America. You cut large swathes of the trip out entirely, meaning you can ship more in less time.

2. The United States needed a way to quickly move around their navy. With two large coastlines to protect, the Navy was always split in two. If one side needed more ships, they had to wait a very long time to get there. Those weeks or months it would take to get, say, a squadron from the Pacific Fleet to the Atlantic Fleet could result in an enemy force over-whelming the Atlantic Fleet and gaining naval dominance, and by the time the Pacific Fleet made it there it would be as equally out-matched as the Atlantic one was, meaning there was a serious possibility of a foe destroying the American navy piecemeal with a force half the size of the American fleet(because said American fleet's strength was always halved).

Another thing; again assuming that somehow history played out 100% the same up until a certain point, the massive increase in distance between the Caribbean Islands and South America would've completely changed the warfare between the European powers in that region. Areas that were strategically important, even vital, in our world would not have been here.

Again, from a purely human-development and history point of view, this makes no sense. Ignoring ecological differences, ignoring atmospheric differences, ignoring temperature differences, human history as we recognize it could not have played out the same way in this world. It just isn't possible.

It simply isn't possible for me to over-stress how much different this world would be from our own.

As I keep saying there was 100% a Panama and a Panama Canal in my memories and it was more along an east/west line than a north/south line. Teddy Roosevelt, the Panama Canal and all that jazz is the same in my (and others) memories as everybody elses. The only difference is a shift in shape and location of Central and South America. I agree that we can not understand this with conventional thinking but I am still saying 'it is what it is'.

Now on the speculative side I think this Mandela Effect started to be noticed in about 2010 and many are speculating it had to do with experimentations done with high speed super colliders, near zero Kelvin degree experiments, and a rip in the space time brought in things from another reality. Don't for a second expect me to explain all that but all this seems to be a very modern phenomena.

Again, unless you are an experiencer I can see why you would call this 100% fantasy and maintain that the simple explanation works perfectly well and there is no reason to get into all this seemingly garbled mystery.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Again, unless you are an experiencer I can see why you would call this 100% fantasy and maintain that the simple explanation works perfectly well and there is no reason to get into all this seemingly garbled mystery.

I remember it as Berenstein bears also. I was wrong. It's easily explained by vagaries of pattern recognition and memory. No hit to the ego necessary. Life goes on.

Then again, I've never been fantasy-prone, and don't get excited by trying to fit overdone science fiction ideas into reality. I do understand the attraction for some people though.

 

[YmirGF]

Oh, for christ's sake. I was hoping we could keep at least some of the ever-accelerating nonsense out of RF.

OK, I'll admit it. I burst out laughing when reading this. So... true... it covfefe's the whole shabang.

 

[George-ananda]

Oh, come on. You don't have a clear memory of even the general shape of Panama, but your memory (Edit: from your childhood in Michigan) is crystal clear of the exact location of Brazil's 8th largest city? Give me a break.

The general shape of Panama was squattier than currently depicted. (perhaps the result of different earth shifting in ancient times?). My clearest detailed memory was the alignment of South America in relation to North America looking much like Map A versus Map B.

Now my only reason for bringing up Brazil's eighth largest city is just an example of a place in South America our friend will know in detail being a resident. I was just curious if bringing this question to his attention would trigger a memory of something being different at one time. He has said Map A was more to his memory but believes it to be just a cartographical perspective issue.

Edit: without looking it up, drawcor describe where you think Fortaleza is on a map of Brazil. If your geographical memory is this good, you should have no problem with this.

I hope I have explained why this test is irrelevant to what I am getting at.

EDIT: When you made your comments did you not realize our friend is from Curitiba? I wasn't going at random with that.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

OK, I'll admit it. I burst out laughing when reading this. So... true... it covfefe's the whole shabang.

I actually almost made a post about it last year, but thought to myself, "wait, here's one piece of nonsense we've managed to keep away. Let's not ruin it."

I guess it was only a matter of time.

Although, there are a few more zany subjects I'm not mentioning.