Man made traditions from the Church or the Word of God - Who do you believe and follow?

[3rdAngel]

I'm denying the veracity of your interpretations.
God's word isn't limited to the bible.

Yet here you are 27+ pages latter unable to prove a single thing you claim through the scriptures. Does this not worry you? It should as it is the Word of God we reject that becomes our judge come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48.

 

[sojourner]

Not according to the teachings of JESUS

So... your position is that Jesus taught against the practice of canonization? chapter and verse, please.

Not really.

So... reality isn't the compelling factor here? What chapter and verse in the bible teaches us to disregard reality?

God's church I believe according to the scriptures are everyone who believes and follows the teachings (Words) of JESUS, the Apostles and the prophets. It is these teachings (Words) that have founded God's church. All actions of God's people are found only in God's Word (the bible).

So how do you solve this paradox? The church engaged in the action of canonization, which is not found in the bible, but "all actions of the church are found only in God's word (the bible)?" Your conclusion is that the action of canonization is found in the bible, but you can't provide chapter and verse where canonization is explicitly laid out for us. Nice.

Not really. The real church are all those who believe and follow God's Word. I believe the scriptures teach that the church of the antichrist is the one the denys God's Word and leads others away from Gods' Word in order to follow man made traditions and teachings that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9. God's people (the church) hear God's Voice and follow him. Those who do not hear and do not follow are not God's church *JOHN 10:26-27. God's people I believe are in every church living up to all the light God has revealed to them *JOHN 10:16. The hour is coming and now is however that God's true worshippers will whorship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 4:23-24. God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9 back to the pure Word of God *REVELATION 18:1-5. Many will be called but few will be chosen.

Your rebuttals are consistently the very strong "nonsense" and "not really." And this one doesn't even address the post to which it responds. Your bubble is deflating rapidly.

I know, I know: "Not really. The real church are all those who believe and follow God's Word. I believe the scriptures teach that the church of the antichrist is the one the denys God's Word and leads others away from Gods' Word in order to follow man made traditions and teachings that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9. God's people (the church) hear God's Voice and follow him. Those who do not hear and do not follow are not God's church *JOHN 10:26-27." And I answer with: "The Monsignor is wearing a red bow tie when he goes to the veterinarian to eat a salad." Makes about as much sense.

Nonsense. I have only shared God's Word with you which is the truth.

See above.

I am not suprised at your response

I am not surprised at your "surprised." Or your "the one the denys," or your "whorship." "Whorship?" Really? A ship of... well... never mind.

 

[sojourner]

Yet here you are 27+ pages latter unable to prove a single thing you claim through the scriptures.

That's because not everything that happens is in the bible, and because we are not constrained by a false limitation of sola scriptura.

Does this not worry you?

It worries me that your logic is nonexistent.

 

[3rdAngel]

So... your position is that Jesus taught against the practice of canonization? chapter and verse, please.

No I never said any such thing. Strawman much?

So... reality isn't the compelling factor here? What chapter and verse in the bible teaches us to disregard reality?

Sure it is. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments *ROMANS 3:4; MATTHEW 15:2-9

So how do you solve this paradox? The church engaged in the action of canonization, which is not found in the bible, but "all actions of the church are found only in God's word (the bible)?" Your conclusion is that the action of canonization is found in the bible, but you can't provide chapter and verse where canonization is explicitly laid out for us. Nice.

Easily. There is no paradox. The Church has always been based on the teachings (Word) of JESUS, the Apostles and the prophets. Canonisation was the will and act of God through men to give His Word to the world. Do you not believe God is in control of His Word? Although this act was conducted after manuscripte in the bible were written it is consistent with the teacings of the bible in the new covenant scriptures of HEBREWS 8:10-12 and the good new of the gospel commission and God's Word going to the world in prophetic scriptures in MATTHEW 24:14; MATTHEW 28:20

Your rebuttals are consistently the very strong "nonsense" and "not really." And this one doesn't even address the post to which it responds. Your bubble is deflating rapidly.

Not really. You have only been provided the scriptures from God's Word which are not my words but God's Word. In response you simply deny God's Word with your words which are not God's but yours when only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5:29; MATTHEW 15:2-9. I believe it is your opinions, claims and accusations that are nonsesnse as they are not supported by the scriptures and are therefore not biblical.

I know, I know And I answer with: "The Monsignor is wearing a red bow tie when he goes to the veterinarian to eat a salad." Makes about as much sense.

Not really. The real church are all those who believe and follow God's Word. I believe the scriptures teach that the church of the antichrist is the one the denys God's Word and leads others away from Gods' Word in order to follow man made traditions and teachings that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9. God's people (the church) hear God's Voice and follow him. Those who do not hear and do not follow are not God's church *JOHN 10:26-27. God's people I believe are in every church living up to all the light God has revealed to them *JOHN 10:16. The hour is coming and now is however that God's true worshippers will whorship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 4:23-24. God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9 back to the pure Word of God *REVELATION 18:1-5. Many will be called but few will be chosen.

I am not surprised at your "surprised." Or your "the one the denys," or your "whorship." "Whorship?" Really? A ship of... well... never mind.

I am not suprised at your response even ISAIAH, JESUS and PAUL had to say to all those who chose not to believe and follow God's Word; "Hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them".

I wish you only well my friend.

 

[3rdAngel]

That's because not everything that happens is in the bible, and because we are not constrained by a false limitation of sola scriptura. It worries me that your logic is nonexistent.

Nonsense. I believe that all the teachings of JESUS, the Apostles and the prophets that God's Church is founded that are required to lead us to God and His salvation are in the bible. This is sola scriptura and is the only way to find God through his Word and teachings. Unbelief will keep us out of God's kingdom as the scriptures teach only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *ROMANS 3:4; MATTHEW 15:2-9.

 

[sojourner]

No I never said any such thing. Strawman much?

Yes you did. Because you claim that all Jesus’ teachings are in the Bible. But since the canonization procedures aren’t in there, then, according to your rules, they cannot be in the set of Jesus’ teachings. See how this works?

Sure it is.

That’s not what you claimed earlier.

Canonisation was the will and act of God through men to give His Word to the world

Not according to your criteria above, since it’s not in the Bible. You can’t have it both ways.

Not really

There you go again.

Not really

And again. Don’t you have a better argument than a four-year-old “NUH-UH!!”?

I am not suprised at your response

Suprised? Still having trouble with English, are you?

Nonsense. I believe that all the teachings of JESUS, the Apostles and the prophets that God's Church is founded that are required to lead us to God and His salvation are in the bible

This is not a coherent sentence. Care to take another crack at it? Or does Grammar flummox you?

 

[3rdAngel]

Yes you did. Because you claim that all Jesus’ teachings are in the Bible. But since the canonization procedures aren’t in there, then, according to your rules, they cannot be in the set of Jesus’ teachings. See how this works?

Nonsense. All the teachings of JESUS, the Apostles and prophets that the church is founded on and where our salvation is found in indeed contained in the bible. I have said nothing about cananization except that it is based on the scriptures and gospel commission of the Word of God going to the world. As posted earlier The Church has always been based on the teachings (Word) of JESUS, the Apostles and the prophets. Canonisation was the will and act of God through men to give His Word to the world. Do you not believe God is in control of His Word? Although this act was conducted after manuscripte in the bible were written it is consistent with the teacings of the bible in the new covenant scriptures of HEBREWS 8:10-12 and the good new of the gospel commission and God's Word going to the world in prophetic scriptures in MATTHEW 24:14; MATTHEW 28:20. See how this works?

That’s not what you claimed earlier.

Sure it was. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments *ROMANS 3:4; MATTHEW 15:2-9

Not according to your criteria above, since it’s not in the Bible. You can’t have it both ways.

See above. Yep it's in the bible in the gospel commission as shown above. Why you think God's is not in control of His Word is beyond me.

There you go again. And again. Don’t you have a better argument than a four-year-old “NUH-UH!!”?

I guess you must be getting pretty desparate now if your seeking to make accusations by part quoting me and leaving out the rest of post you are quoting from. The rest of the post sections you leave out gives the justification for the not really's...

1. Not really. You have only been provided the scriptures from God's Word which are not my words but God's Word. In response you simply deny God's Word with your words which are not God's but yours when only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5:29; MATTHEW 15:2-9. I believe it is your opinions, claims and accusations that are nonsesnse as they are not supported by the scriptures and are therefore not biblical

2. Not really. The real church are all those who believe and follow God's Word. I believe the scriptures teach that the church of the antichrist is the one the denys God's Word and leads others away from Gods' Word in order to follow man made traditions and teachings that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9. God's people (the church) hear God's Voice and follow him. Those who do not hear and do not follow are not God's church *JOHN 10:26-27. God's people I believe are in every church living up to all the light God has revealed to them *JOHN 10:16. The hour is coming and now is however that God's true worshippers will whorship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 4:23-24. God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God *MATTHEW 15:2-9 back to the pure Word of God *REVELATION 18:1-5. Many will be called but few will be chosen.

Seems to be a habbit of yours part quoting things I say out of context to try and build strawman arguments that do not exist.

Hope this helps

 

[sojourner]

I have said nothing about cananization except that it is based on the scriptures and gospel commission of the Word of God going to the world

No it isn’t. Canonization had nothing to do with spreading the gospel.

Sure it was

Nope.

. Yep it's in the bible in the gospel commission as shown above

You’re flat wrong on this point. The texts are never mentioned in that pericope.

Seems to be a habbit of yours part quoting things I say

Most of the crap you post isn’t worth responding to.

 

[3rdAngel]

No it isn’t. Canonization had nothing to do with spreading the gospel.

You do know that the gospel commission is sharing the teachings of JESUS and the prophets to the world right? How can you say that canonization had nothing to do with spreading the gospel when it is by canonization the the bible was developed in order to send the bible to the whole world? Your post is simply denying the scriptuers.

Nope.

Sure it was. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments *ROMANS 3:4; MATTHEW 15:2-9 and you are only providing your own words that deny God's Word.

You’re flat wrong on this point. The texts are never mentioned in that pericope.

Nonsense. All the teachings of JESUS, the Apostles and prophets that the church is founded on and where our salvation is found in indeed contained in the bible. I have said nothing about cananization except that it is based on the scriptures and gospel commission of the Word of God going to the world. As posted earlier The Church has always been based on the teachings (Word) of JESUS, the Apostles and the prophets. Canonisation was the will and act of God through men to give His Word to the world. Do you not believe God is in control of His Word? Although this act was conducted after manuscripte in the bible were written it is consistent with the teacings of the bible in the new covenant scriptures of HEBREWS 8:10-12 and the good new of the gospel commission and God's Word going to the world in prophetic scriptures in MATTHEW 24:14; MATTHEW 28:20. See how this works?

Most of the crap you post isn’t worth responding to.

Sorry my dear friend, only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4; ACTS 5:29. All you provide here is your words that deny God's Word so your argument is with God not me.

 

[sojourner]

You do know that the gospel commission is sharing the teachings of JESUS and the prophets to the world right? How can you say that canonization had nothing to do with spreading the gospel when it is by canonization the the bible was developed in order to send the bible to the whole world

The world of the great commission was of oral transmission. The canonization of texts didn’t begin until after Jesus had ascended.

Sure it was

Nope.

Nonsense

Nope.

All you provide here is your words that deny God's Word so your argument is with God not me

Ditto

 

[3rdAngel]

The world of the great commission was of oral transmission. The canonization of texts didn’t begin until after Jesus had ascended.
Nope.Nope.Ditto

Nonsense as it is written, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God *ROMANS 10:17
The spoken Word is the written Word of God

 

[sojourner]

Nonsense as it is written, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God *ROMANS 10:17
The spoken Word is the written Word of God

No. It isn’t. The process of transmitting and processing speech is different from transmitting and processing reading.

 

[3rdAngel]

No. It isn’t. The process of transmitting and processing speech is different from transmitting and processing reading.

Nonsense as it is written, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God *ROMANS 10:17. The spoken Word is the recorded written Word of God

 

[sojourner]

Nonsense as it is written, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God *ROMANS 10:17
The spoken Word is the written Word of God

You just have no clue do you.

 

[3rdAngel]

You just have no clue do you.

If the clue is in the scriptures you do not believe, what do you think that means?

 

[Clear]

While I understand the nature of the question in the O.P. I am wondering why the question in the O.P. assumes that either the current Saturday or the current Sunday is the actual and original 7th day that God rested on and declared holy.

Is the O.P. itself assuming that there some unbroken list of days that tell us the current modern Saturday OR the current modern Sunday is the actual 7th day of genesis or is this basic assumption also simply based on tradition?

Clear

 

[3rdAngel]

While I understand the nature of the question in the O.P. I am wondering why the question in the O.P. assumes that either the current Saturday or the current Sunday is the actual and original 7th day that God rested on and declared holy.

Is the O.P. itself assuming that there some unbroken list of days that tell us the current modern Saturday OR the current modern Sunday is the actual 7th day of genesis or is this basic assumption also simply based on tradition?

Clear

Hi Clear nice to meet you and welcome here. Yes the Sabbath has been unbroken and the JEWS have kept it for 1000's of years already. JESUS and the apostles all kept it in their day also. We know what day the Sabbath is as God's people have kept it all through time unbroken to this very present day.

God bless.

 

[Clear]

My point was that you do NOT know this. You ascribe to it by tradition. One cannot tell WHICH day of the week we now hold to be the sabbath IS the same 7th day as was the 7th day Moses kept. HOW does one know that a day was not added here, or there.

While individuals glibly claim say "the Jews have kept it for 1000s of years", how does one know that the Jews have kept it for 1000s of years. If they missed 2 days, then the original sabbath could be on a monday or tuesday, or a thursday or friday.

While it is Saturday here where I live, it is a different day in another place on the planet. It is the 20th where I am now, and it is a day later in another part of the world. Are you assuming that there has never been a mistake or change in any calendar in any of the many types of Judaism over the many years?

My point is that the O.P. simply makes an assumption that with the multiple changes of calendar, the diaspora and difficulties, how does one then confirm that the day one says is now "saturday", or "sunday" (or any other day), IS the same saturday or sunday from 4000 years earlier other than by tradition? If you are assuming this by tradition, is there any way to confirm your assumption?

Clear
σεακακτωω

 

[3rdAngel]

My point was that you do NOT know this. You ascribe to it by tradition. One cannot tell WHICH day of the week we now hold to be the sabbath IS the same 7th day as was the 7th day Moses kept. HOW does one know that a day was not added here, or there. While individuals glibly say the Jews have kept it for 1000s of years, how does one know that the Jews have kept it for 1000s of years. If they missed 2 days, then the original sabbath could be on a monday or tuesday, or a thursday or friday. My point is that the O.P. simply makes an assumption that with the multiple changes of calendar, the diaspora and difficulties, how does one then confirm that the day one says is now "saturday", or "sunday" (or any other day), IS the same saturday or sunday from 4000 years earlier other than by tradition?

Clear

Sure we know this. JESUS being the creator of the Sabbath kept the Sabbath according to the scriptures. The JEWS have been keeping the same day for 1000's of years and still keep it unbroken to today as to many others that practice Sabbath keeping from all over the world.

 

[Clear]

REGARDING 3RD ANGELS CLAIM THAT HE KNOWS WHICH DAY IS THE PROPER SABBATH DAY

3rd Angel claims "Sure we know this."..." The JEWS have been keeping the same day for 1000's of years and still keep it unbroken to today as to many others that practice Sabbath keeping..." (post 539)


No, you DON’T “know this”.

You seem yourself to be trying to follow “the traditions of men” (as you put it) by assuming some sort of continuous weekly cycle (e,g, a Gregorian Calendar which itself, is a "man made" tradition) rather than a Lunar Calendar. IF the earliest Israelites used a LUNAR Calendar, where the month starts with a New Moon, then the Sabbath would not be on the same day of the week since the Lunar Month did not always start on the same day of the week.

So, no. You do not know what you claim to know.

And, your condemnation of others who follow a different day than you is misplaced. Others may be simply honoring God as best as they can, and you should honor them for honoring God, rather than condemning them for trying to honor God differently than yourself. @Orbit, @exchemist, @Deeje, and others have all made other important points as well.


Clear
σενεφιφυω