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Featured Man made traditions from the Church or the Word of God - Who do you believe and follow?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by 3rdAngel, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. Terral

    Terral Member

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    Hi 3rdAngel:

    Thank you for writing. You wrote:

    Please forgive, but semantics appear to be intruding on our deliberations where you are making statements and asking questions about "the Apostles." Would that be Peter, John and James who kept the Law (Matthew 5:17-19, James 2:10)? No. They kept the Sabbath like all practicing Jews.

    If you mean the Apostle Paul? The closest thing we have in the Scriptures appears in Acts 20:7 that some characterize as a Bible Study, while others believe is regular Sunday service.

    No one is our judge regarding food or drink or a Sabbath day that are all mere shadows of things to come.

    Blessings,

    Terral
     
  2. Terral

    Terral Member

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    Hi 3rdAngel:

    Thank you for writing. You wrote:

    3rdAngel! The important fact to keep in mind while addressing anyone about the essentials of Mosaic Law, and particularly the keeping of the Law, is that the 10 Commandments like all of Mosaic Law was given to Israel of the flesh having nothing whatsoever to do with Gentiles!

    Moses is the "steward" over the "sons of Israel" through whom the Law was dispensed from the Lord God for this particular dispensation-household. Moses dispensing the Law to Israel in no way places everyone on Earth under Mosaic Law. That is why Paul refers to "Gentiles who do not have the Law" (Rom. 2:14) in the first place.

    3rdAngel! Gentiles have never been under Mosaic Law and those obeying our gospel are "not under law but under grace." Rom. 6:14. Why am I getting the impression that you are trying to place those obeying our gospel under Mosaic Law?

    Please try to address the substance of my statements without trying to put words into my mouth, which amounts to the constructs of a straw man argument when one runs out of supported statements. Those for whom Christ died have the new inner man renewed day by day (2Cor. 4:16) and do good works not because they are under Mosaic Law, but because we are forgiven. :0)

    James? Holy... James is writing "To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad...". James 1:1. Paul is writing to a different household entirely, saying,

    I am confident that you can understand the vast differences between the Twelve Tribes of Israel "and" the Gentiles being saved by God's grace through faith apart from works throughout the Pauline Epistles. Right? Okay then. Please stop trying to toss everyone into the same household, as if Gentiles and Christ Body members are under Mosaic Law, because that is not the case at all.

    Yes. Obviously, but will anything in my statements containing "sound doctrine" sink in? We shall see....

    Blessings,

    Terral
     
  3. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Terral, thanks for your post and clarification here although I am not quite sure what it has to do with the OP. That being said. I will get to your other posts shortly with a detailed scripture response when I have a bit more time. What I am noticing though in your responses, if you do not mind me saying so, your not really addressing the content of my posts and the scriptures in them that are in disagreement with you and you are simply avoiding the questions asked of you.

    I hope this line of discussion can stop and that we may look to address each others posts for what we believe as related directly from the scriptures as it is simply side stepping the posts and the scriptures provided that disagree with you in my view.

    If you noticed, my earlier responses to your posts were section by section and scripture by scripture showing through the scriptures, why I do not believe the interpretation you have applied to your scriptures and statements were correct. You did not address the scriptures and posts I had provided to you but simply pulled out one line sentences out of context to the rest of the post and scriptures provided.

    Anyhow I am sure you love God's Word just as much as I do. So let's look at the detail. In the future, if you disagree with anything I post and the scriptures provided prove why you believe that way with God's Word as I have done with you.

    I believe we should examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not bringing everthing to the light of God's Word. Who knows if our discussion may bring a blessing to each other or to others? Anyhow I will respond soon to your other posts in detail.

    Anyhow thanks for sharing your view and may God bless you as you seek him through his Word :)
     
  4. Terral

    Terral Member

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    Hi 3rdAngel:

    Thank you for writing. You wrote.

    We simply disagree and we shall continue to disagree on the substance of all these Bible Debates, because one of us recognizes the different "dispensations" (#3622) and how God deals with members of different households in different ways, and one of us does not. The idea that James is addressing "us" (Christ's Body members) has no basis in reality and that simple fact is the truth being ignored in our deliberations. Mosaic Law (and the Sabbath) was given to Israel and not to Gentiles, which only one side of this debate appears willing to accept. Good luck in the debates.

    Blessings,

    Terral
     
  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Terral, thanks for your post. I will just address this one quickly. I think what would be good before we continue in my view if it is ok with you, is to examine the scriptures in relation to what the bible says in regards to the dispensations what do you say?

    The new covenant does not do away with God's 10 commandments, as they were not the things in the old covenant that were shadows to be replaced in the new. Neither JESUS and any of the Apostles did away with anyone of God's 10 commandments and you cannot show me a single scripture in all of the new testament that says so because there is no scripture that says God's LAW (10 Commandments) are to be abolsihed.

    In fact PAUL says they are to be established in the life of the believer through faith *ROMANS 3:31 and JAMES says if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. JESUS also says he did not come to abolish the LAW but to fulfill it and heaven and earth would pass away before one dot of title would be removed from the laws requirements *MATTHEW 5:17-21.

    According to the scriptures in the new covenant, God's 10 commandments are given to us to give us a KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 Commandments *EXODUS 20:8-11 that give us the knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:10; ROMANS 7:7 and is one of God's 10 commandments and there is not a single scripture in all of God's Word that says it has been abolished.

    Sunday worship on the other hand, is a man-made teaching and tradition which has lead many away from God's Word to break the commandments of God to follow the teachings and traditions of men which JESUS warns us about in MATTHEW 15:3-9.

    The hour is coming and now is when God's true people will hear his Voice (the Word) and come out from following man made traditions back to the pure Word of God. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship hin in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 10:16; JOHN 4:23-24.

    blessings
     
    #285 3rdAngel, Dec 30, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  6. PearlSeeker

    PearlSeeker Active Member

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    I know Jesus quoted from OT. The phrasing itself was not new. The newness lies in proclaiming love as the cornerstone.

    The written law can be a beginning teacher or a signpost but eventually the guidance is supposed to be inner because love is infused in our hearts by the Spirit. After new life in Spirit why the need of outer rules? What about the situations that are not included in Law? Remember the rich guy did everything but still something was missing. "If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." (Galatians 5:18) As Augustin said: love and do what you will. So if one outerly does the works of Law one does not necessarily have love. "... without love I'm nothing." (1 Cor)
     
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  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Hi again Pearl, nice to see you again. Some comments provided below for your consideration.
    Most of the new testament scriptures have their origin in the old testament scriptures. As posted earlier JESUS talking about the two great commandments is just one example of new testament scriptures from MATTHEW 22:36-40 which JESUS is quoting from DEUTERONOMY 6:5 and LEVITICUS 19:18. That said, what was new was JESUS asking his disciples to love one another as he loved them *JOHN 13:34.

    Perfect love casts out all fear *1 JOHN 4:18. No one had ever loved another as God loved us as demonstrated in JESUS *JOHN 3:16. JESUS kept God's LAW perfectly *1 PETER 2:22. Of course we all have sinned *1 JOHN 1:8; ROMANS 3:23 and is the reason we need a Saviour to save us from our sins *JOHN 8:31-36; JOHN 3:15-21; MATTHEW 9:12-13. Some call this process "santification" and it is the work of a lifetime *2 THESSALONIANS 2:13; 1 PETER 1:2; 1 THESSALONIANS 3:13; ROMANS 6:22.

    JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT applying God's 10 commandments MATTHEW 5:17-32 to our very thoughts and feelings in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance of the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART.

    BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

    If we are not BORN AGAIN into the NEW COVENANT promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. ALL those who KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. There is no such thing as the 9 commandments in God's WORD. The same as there is no scripure that says God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12.

    Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.

    Can we have GRACE without God's LAW if the purpose of God's LAW is to give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172?

    In the new covenant it is God's LAW (10 commandments) that give us the knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7 and leads us to Christ that we might be forgiven by faith *GALATIANS 3:22-25. Kneeling in faith at the foot of the cross we see God's LOVE and it is here through faith we see God's grace and forgiveness of our sins in the death of our redeemer *EPHESIANS 2:8-9.

    Through faith in God's Word we see the love of God and it is God who works in us to change our hearts to walk in his Spirit so we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh *GALATIANS 5:16 and leads us to the new covnenant promise of a new heart to LOVE and LOVE is the fulfilling and establishing of God's law in the life of those who believe and follow God's Word *ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4.

    Sin (knowingly breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:6:10. This is why JESUS says to those who love and follow him. If you love me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15. LOVE fulfills God's LAW in the heart of those who believe and follow God's Word *ROMANS 13:8-10.

    Now if LOVE is the very expression of OBEDIENCE to God's LAW *ROMANS 13:8-10 and God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) are the very definition of what RIGHTOUESNESS is *PSALMS 119:172, and to break any one of God's 10 commandments is SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. How can you LOVE GOD and your NEIGHBORE as yourself, if we have no LOVE and break God's Commandments which ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS HANG *MATTHEW 22:36-40?

    Unless we are BORN AGAIN to LOVE from the INSIDE OUT in the new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12, we are only like dead mans bones and all we can do without JESUS is SIN *1 JOHN 3:4. According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNES *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

    God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. It is one that concerns out duty of love to God. According to God's WORD if we break any one of God's 10 Commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11.

    blessings
     
    #287 3rdAngel, Dec 30, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  8. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    From the inside out...

    MATTHEW 5:20 is interesting because on the OUTSIDE the Scribes and Pharisees as JESUS taught appeared righteous to men. Outwardly blameless in regards to following God's 10 commandments but INWARDLY JESUS says they were full of SIN (breaking God's LAW) *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS says; For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven *MATTHEW 5:20. The scripture in ISAIAH 42:21 was posted to show that JESUS came to teach the true meaning of God's LAW and that is it is to be applied to the ISIDE OUT not for OUT SIDE IN appearance to appear rightouess to men but inwardly full of SIN. God reads the HEART and KNOWS we are all sick with SIN *MATTHEW 15:19-20; MATTHEW 12:34-35; JEREMIAH 13:23; JEREMIAH 17:9-10; MATTHEW 15:19-20; JOHN 5:42 and in need of a Savior from SIN. Many do not know the meaning here MATTHEW 9:12-13.

    This is leading to the NEW COVENANT PROMISE of a NEW HEART to LOVE *HEBREWS 8:10-12; JOHN 5:42; 1 JOHN 5:17-19; 1 JOHN 4:16; 1 JOHN 5:3; 1 JOHN 4:8.

    We do not have the LOVE of GOD in us *JOHN 5:42. We need to be BORN OF GOD to LOVE *1 JOHN 4:7 and partake of the NEW COVENANT promise. This is why JESUS teaches in *JOHN 3:3-7 that UNLESS we are made CLEAN from the INSIDE OUT and BORN AGAIN to LOVE we cannot enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. This is what JESUS is talking about in MATTHEW 5:20 when discussing the Scribes and the Pharisees teaching the application of God's LAW from the INSIDE OUT. Whosoever is BORN of GOD to LOVE in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12 does not commit SIN *1 JOHN 3:9; ROMANS 13:8-10; JAMES 2:8-12; ROMANS 3:31; MATTHEW 22:36-40. This is the GOOD NEWS of the Gospels in the NEW COVENANT we have a SAVIOUR to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:1-4.

    1 JOHN 3:3-10 is talking about all those who are BORN AGAIN to LOVE and it is LOVE that fulfills God's LAW in all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This results in a people that keep God's LAW (10 commandments) from the INSIDE OUT. *REVELATION 14:12; REVELATION 22:14; 1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; ROMANS 13:8-10; ROMANS 3:31; HEBREWS 8:10-12.

    May God help you as you seek him through his WORD. Unless we are BORN AGAIN to LOVE we cannot enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. He that has ears let him hear.

    God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word)
     
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Your response here...
    Hello Terral, nice to see you again. Please forgive the slow response as I have some other things to do today. With all due respect, there is no semantics from my side we either have scripture that supports our faith or we do not.

    The OP is simply asking honest questions to those who are honest of heart and asking for scripture for what I believe the bible teaches is a man-made teaching and traditions in regards to the so called Christian Sabbath (Sunday) which is not biblical.

    JESUS did not keep Sunday as a holy day and neither did any of the Apostles or early disciples according to the scriptures. There is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    That is why the questions in the OP are asking where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. There is none. ACTS 20:7 does not teach that God's 4th commandment is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day now does it? It says that the disciples were meeting together because PAUL was departing the next day...

    ACTS 20:7 [7], And on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached to them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

    Nope cannot see God's 4th commandment being abolished there and a new commandment to keep Sunday as a Holy day. JESUS and all the Apostles including Paul, and the early disciples kept the Sabbath according to God's 4th commandment, even gentile believers asked Paul to come back and preach to them the following Sabbath *ACTS 13:14; ACTS 13:27; ACTS 13:44; ACTS 15:21; ACTS 16:13; ACTS 17:2; ACTS 18:4, not Sunday (the next day).

    The Shadow sabbaths of Colossians 2 are those of the annual feast days and holy convocations of the Feast of trumpets, Day of Atonement and the Feast of booths, not God's 4th commandment which is every week on the "seventh day" Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. Happy to discuss this through the scriptures in detail if your interested.

    Hope this is helpful.
     
    #289 3rdAngel, Dec 31, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  10. PearlSeeker

    PearlSeeker Active Member

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    "Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God."

    Technically any day could be sabbath for a certain community. It depends only when all agree to start counting days.
     
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  11. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    For the Gentile communities, yes; but for the Jewish communities, no, as the latter is still under the entire (613) Mosaic Law. Since the vast majority of Christians are Gentiles, they had and have the right to choose which day to observe as their day of rest, if any.

    But I'm "preaching to the choir". :)

    Have a Happy New Year!
     
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  12. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Actually not really Pearl. The scriptures are very specific. At each day of the creation week God worked and created something as shown in the chapter of GENESIS 1. Then in GENESIS 2:1-3 it says that after the 6 days of creation, it was on the "seventh day" that God rested. It was the "seventh day" that God set apart from all the other days of the week and "blessed" and made a "holy day" of rest for all mankind *MARK 2:27-28 and commands his people to "remember to keep holy" in his 4th commandment of the 10 commandment *EXODUS 20:8-11. It is the "seventh day" that God commands us to keep Holy according to the scriptures *EXODUS 20:10.

    The scriptures are very specific and the JEWS have been keeping God's Sabbath unbroken for 6000 years, JESUS also keeping it and all the Apostles on the correct day and all his disciples unbroken to this very present day.

    The bible tells us that Sunday (Saturday sunset to Sunday sunset God's time for a day) is the first day of the week *MARK 16:9; LUKE 24:1. So Saturday (Friday evening to Saturday evening God's time) is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God.

    We cannot choose any day that God has not "blessed" and made "holy" and call it the Sabbath. That would not be biblical and does not agree with the scriptures.

    blessings
     
    #292 3rdAngel, Dec 31, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  13. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense. If you are a gentile you have no part in the new covenant promise which is to God's ISRAEL which is defined in the new testament scriptures are all those who believe and follow God's Word.

    HEBREWS 8:10-12
    [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
    [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
    [13], In that he said, A new covenant, he has made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

    Gentiles believers (not Gentiles) are grafted into God's ISRAEL *ROMANS 11:13-27. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the new covnant promise. God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who "believe and follow" God's Word.

    Let's look at the scriptures......

    ORIGIN OF ISRAEL AND THE TWELVE TRIBES AND LINKING OLD TO THE NEW.

    The promise of God to Abraham that his descendance would be as the sand of the sea or start of heaven…

    GENESIS 22:15-18 [15], And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, [16], And said, By myself have I sworn, says the LORD, for because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son: [17], That in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies; [18], And in your descendants shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because you have obeyed my voice.

    Jacob a descendant of Abraham being 2nd born received the birth right from Esau...

    GENESIS 25:31 [31], And Jacob said, Sell me this day your birthright. [32], And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point of death: and what profit shall this birthright be to me? [33], And Jacob said, swear to me this day; and he swore unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob. [34], Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentils; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus, Esau despised his birthright.

    God’s promise to Abraham was to be fulfilled through Abrahams descendant Jacob

    GENESIS 32:11-12 [11], Deliver me, I pray you, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau: for I fear him, lest he come and smite me, and the mother with the children. [12], And you said, I will surely do you good, and make your descendants as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude.

    God changes Jacobs name to ISRAEL...

    GENESIS 32:24-28 [24], And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. [25], And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. [26], And he said, let me go, for the day breaks. And he said, I will not let you go, except you bless me. [27], And he said unto him, what is your name? And he said, Jacob. [28], And he said, Your name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince have you power with God and with men, and have prevailed.

    The name "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

    ISRAEL (God’s new name given to Jacob) had 12 sons which make up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

    GENESIS 35:22-26 [22], ... Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: [23], The sons of Leah; Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun: [24], The sons of Rachel; Joseph, and Benjamin: [25], And the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid; Dan, and Naphtali: [26], And the sons of Zilpah, Leah's handmaid; Gad, and Asher: these are the sons of Jacob, who were born to him in Paddanaram.

    God’s promise of the NEW COVENANT is to ISRAEL…

    JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [32], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; my covenant which they broke, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD: [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    144, 000 Come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL…

    REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [5], Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of Asher were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasseh were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

    Yeps, seems like God’s people are called ISRAEL in both the OLD AND NEW Testament scriptures and the END OF TIME events John is describing in REVELATION 7. The word ISRAEL is a name that God gives to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

    To be continued in the NEW Testament....
     
    #293 3rdAngel, Dec 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2020
  14. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    GOD'S ISRAEL ARE ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD (The Church)

    There is no such thing as Jew or Greek anymore. All who believe and follow God's Word are one in Christ. Israel in the OLD COVENANT were those from the seed of Abraham. In the NEW COVENANT, if you are in Christ then you are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise...

    EPHESIANS 2:11-13 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;[12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

    GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

    God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

    ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

    God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

    ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

    COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

    ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

    The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

    EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

    and again...

    JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Paul proclaims it here...

    HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

    If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

    ............

    God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in. If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

    Now let's look at the meaning of the name that God gave to his people. The name "ISRAEL" ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl means; "HE WILL RULE WITH GOD" God gave this name to his people and it means that they shall rule with God. Take a look at the following scriptures from REVELATION speaking of God's people.

    REVELATION 1:5-6 [5], And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. To him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, [6], And HAS MADE US KINGS AND PRIESTS TO GOD AND HIS FATHER; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    and again...

    REVELATION 5:10 And HAVE MADE US TO OUR GOD KINGS AND PRIESTS; AND WE SHALL REIGN ON THE EARTH.

    Peter speaking of God's people says it this way...

    1 PETER 2:9-10 [9], But you [God's people] are a chosen generation, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD [KINGS AND PRIESTS], an holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the praises of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light; [10], Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

    Sound familar? "ISRAEL" ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl means; "HE WILL RULE WITH GOD" WHY?

    JESUS is our great HIGH PRIEST ministering on our behalf in the HEVENLY SANCTUARY *HEBREWS 4:14. JESUS is the KING of KINGS *REVELATIONS 17:14; 19:16

    HE WILL RULE WITH GOD WHICH IS THE MEANING OF "ISRAEL" is the name given to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD because JESUS will make them to rule with him as PRIESTS and KINGS.

    Notice also in REVELATION 7:3-8 just before the judgements of God are poured out on the world God's people are sealed with God's Spirit and 144,000 come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

    REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of ISRAEL. [5], Of the tribe of JUDAH were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of REUBEN were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of GAD were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of ASHER were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of MANESSAH were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of SIMEONwere sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of LEVI were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of ZEBULON were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of JOSEPH were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of BENJAMIN were sealed twelve thousand.
     
  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    GENTILES BELIEVERS ARE NOW GRAFTED IN TO GOD'S ISRAEL.

    ROMANS 11:16-27
    [16], For if the firstfruit are holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

    The root represents Christ...

    [17], And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree.

    The Jewish and the Gentile believers are the branches grafted onto the root (Christ)...

    [18], Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but the root you.
    [19], You will say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
    [20], Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not arrogant, but fear:

    God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD...

    [21], For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also not spare you.
    [22], Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
    [23], And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
    [24], For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
    [25], For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
    [26], And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

    The NEW COVENANT is for both Jews and Greek, bond and free, all those who are in Christ. All in Christ are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.

    [27], For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    Gentiles are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.
     
    #295 3rdAngel, Dec 31, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  16. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    PHYSICAL ISRAEL AFTER THE FLESH ARE NOT GOD’S TRUE ISRAEL IN THE NEW COVENANT

    ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <new covenant promise HEBREWS 8:10-12> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED (True ISRAEL).

    GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE

    ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Now listen to Jesus talking to the Jews...

    JOHN 8:31-39
    [31], Then said Jesus to those Jews who believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;
    [32], And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
    [33], They answered him, We are Abraham's descendants, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?
    [34], Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin.
    [35], And the servant abides not in the house forever: but the Son abides ever.
    [36], If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.
    [37], I know that you are Abraham's descendant; but you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you.
    [38], I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and you do that which you have seen with your father.
    [39], They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus said unto them, If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham.

    Jesus is saying the same thing as Paul in ROMANS 9:6-8 above. God's ISRAEL under the NEW COVENANT is not being a decendent of Abraham it is CONTINUING in God's WORD by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING it.

    The children of the promise are counted for the seed (ROMANS 9:8) ...

    HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, says the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:[11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.[12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    continuing this same line of thinking from Jesus and Paul earlier...

    ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    WHAT ABOUT THE NATION OF ISRAEL?

    The HEBREW word used for NATION is dependent on the context of the scripture used and chapter. In the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures the references can be applied to ISRAEL as a Holy or Great Nation (Genesis 12:2; 17:20; 18:18; 21:18; 46:3; Exodus 19:6; 32:10 etc) or the surrounding gentile people.

    The HEBREW WORD for NATIONS is [H1471] גּוי גּי'; gôy gôy simply means; a massing of people;
    ISRAEL as a Holy Nation = Those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD will be a Holy massing of people
    ISREAL as a Great Nation = Those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOd's WORD will be a Great [MIGHTY] mass of people

    This is inline with God's promise to Abraham...

    GENESIS 22:17[17], That in blessing I will bless you, and in multiplying I will multiply your seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is on the sea shore; and your seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

    .............

    NATIONS as applied to God's people in the OLD COVENANT...

    EXODUS 19:6 [6], And you shall be to me a kingdom of priests, and an HOLY NATION. THESE ARE THE WORDS YOU SHALL SPEAK TO THE CHILDREN OF ISREAL.

    Applied to Christians as God's ISREAL in the NEW COVENANT...

    2 PETER 2:9 [9], But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an HOLY NATION, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the praises of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

    The OLD TESTAMENT scriptures are the keys to unlock the meaning of the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures together the OLD and NEW Testament make up the Word of God and we are to live by EVERY WORD of it (Matthew 4:4)

    God's ISREAL according to the OLD and NEW COVENANTS are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. Gentiles are now grafted in (Romans 11:16-27)

    May God bless you as you seek him through God's Word.
     
  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    GODS SABBATH A SIGN AND EVERLASTING COVENANT TO GOD’S TRUE ISRAEL (Believers)

    God's Sabbth (4th Commandment) is indeed a SIGN to God's people. Where does it say in the scriptures that this sign is not applicable now in the NEW COVENANT?

    let's read the scriptures....

    EXODUS 31:13-17 [13], Speak also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does sanctify you. [14], You shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. [15], Six days may work be done; but on the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever does any work on the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. [16], Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a EVERLASTING covenant. [17], It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

    New Living Translation
    The people of Israel must keep the Sabbath day by observing it from generation to generation. This is a covenant obligation for all time.

    English Standard Version
    Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.

    New American Standard Bible
    'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.'

    King James Bible
    Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

    Christian Standard Bible
    The Israelites must observe the Sabbath, celebrating it throughout their generations as a permanent covenant.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    Let the children of Israel keep the sabbath, and celebrate it in their generations. It is an everlasting covenant

    Darby Bible Translation
    And the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations -- [it is] an everlasting covenant.

    Now all of this links into the next key scripture as follows

    ............................

    ISAIAH 66:22-23 [22], For as the NEW HEAVENS AND THE NEW EARTH, which I will make, shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your descendants and your name remain. [23], And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, shall all flesh come to worship before me, says the LORD.

    ............................

    CONCLUSION: Yep the scriptures are pretty clear here that God's SABBATH is an EVERLASTING COVENANT that will be kept in the NEW EARTH. God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word (the Church). Gentiles are now grafted in and if you are not a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in the new covenant promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12
     
    #297 3rdAngel, Dec 31, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2019
  18. PearlSeeker

    PearlSeeker Active Member

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    There is no difference between a day and a day until people start counting and organizing. It's reasonable and biblical.

    Yes, for them Sunday was the first day of the week. For some people Sunday is the seventh day. In my country Sunday is even called by a different name - translation would be "no-work-day". That's the same meaning as Sabbath.

    Happy new year and blessings to all!
     
  19. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Well-Known Member

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    In Luke 4 jesus observes the traditional congregation of the Sabbath.
    In Matthew 12 Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.
    The Biblical writer could neither agree nor disagree with a timetable construct of a later Roman era. You're familiar even, that August is after Emperor Augustus, AD 14.
     
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  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find since Pentecost, the 'Israel of God' is the Christian congregation - Romans 2:28-29
    It is No longer a fleshly or a national Israel but a ' spiritual Israel ' as brought out by 1 Peter 2:9; 1 Peter 2:5
    Spiritual as in meaning a nation that has No borders, No boundaries and can't be located on any map.
    Christians are to fulfill the Law of Christ - Galatians 6:2
    Jeremiah foretold this 'new covenant' at Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:6-13.
    The priesthood now belongs to Christ - Hebrews 7:12
    Thus, Christians are now to fullfill the Law of Christ - 1 Corinthians 9:21
    This Law of Christ covers a Christian's life style or course of life - Romans 8:2; Romans 8:4
    Jesus gave a NEW commandment to follow as found at John 13:34-35
    We are now to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
    In other words, we are now to love neighbor 'MORE' than self, more than the Golden Rule of the Mosaic Law.
     
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