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Featured Man made traditions from the Church or the Word of God - Who do you believe and follow?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by 3rdAngel, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    The fact is that a Christian who trusts Jesus by faith is resting from their work everyday... the work of attempting to earn salvation or sanctification through human effort, which is impossible. Yet, you are trying to insinuate that keeping a physical day or commandments which only Jesus could keep perfectly result in entering God’s kingdom. False teaching!
    The Bible states that GOD rested on the seventh day after His creation. It says not one word of instruction for Adam, Eve, Abel, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, or others until Moses concerning keeping the Sabbath. Why don’t you provide one example or scripture which shows one of the Patriarchs keeping the Sabbath.
    The scriptures state that the Sabbath was a sign between God and the children of Israel as a reminder of God’s deliverance of them from Egypt (Ex. 16:23,29;31:
     
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  2. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    This has nothing to do with God's 4th commandment just like there is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    No one has told you to earn salvation by Human effort. If no one has told you to earn salvation by human effort why are you pretending that they have?
    We are only saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD by faith that works by LOVE. Salvation is from sin (breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments) not to continue in sin *ROMANS 6:1-23; JOHN 8:31-36. Those who continue in known unrepentant sin do not know God and need to be Born again into the NEW COVENANT promise to love *HEBREWS 8:10-12; ROMANS 13:8-10. This is God's work in us and a part of the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12; PHILIPPIANS 2:13. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

    Rubbish! I have said no such thing. See previous section.

    Depends if you believe the bible or not. JESUS says he made the Sabbath for all mankind *Mark 2:27. Adam and Eve were created on the 6th day of creation *Genesis 1:26:31. The Sabbath was made on the seventh day of the creation week for mankind when there was no sin for Adam and Eve who were the father and mother of mankind *Genesis 2:1-3. There was NO MOSES, NO JEW, NO ISREAL and NO SIN, only Adam and Eve when the Sabbath was created for mankind *Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27.

    See previous section. Before the written Word of God there was the Spoken Word of God given to mankind and those who believed and followed God's Word *Hebrews 11; Romans 10:17. All of God's 10 Commandments were kept before Sinai as were offerings for remission of sin.

    GENESIS 26:5 Because that Abraham OBEYED MY VOICE, and KEPT MY CHARGE, MAY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS תּורה תּרה

    God said of Abraham that ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE [the Spoken Word] AND KEPT MY CHARGE, MY COMMANDMENTS, MY STATUTES AND MY LAWS. תּורה תּרה

    The HEBREW word used for laws תּורה תּרה is TORAH. So, it is very clear that the SPOKEN WORD of GOD included God’s TORAH. The TORAH includes God's LAWS of the OLD COVENANT from God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandments) that give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN AND RIGHTOUESNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172 and the SHADOW laws for remission of sin (burn't offerings) if God's LAW was broken.

    If they had no law BEFORE the written WORD of GOD then they would have no knowledge of what sin is. If they did not know what sin was there would have been no need of burnt offerings.

    Yet here we also see in GENESIS 22:2-7 that it was a regular practice for Abraham and his family to offer burnt offerings. So before Mt Sinai God’s people had the SPOKEN Word of God after slavery to the Egyptians they received the WRITTEN Word of God but through all this time God’s people had a knowledge of what sin was and what to do if sin was committed. Because they knew God's laws and followed them by faith.

    Jacob knew about sin (breaking God's Commandments) BEFORE Mt Sinia when he complained to Laben when he left with his daughters *GENESIS 31:36.

    When Potiphar’s wife came to Joseph with the aim of committing adultery with him, Joseph knew it was sin and protested saying how then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God? *GENESIS 39:9.

    In regards to the Sabbath the king of Egypt said unto them, Wherefore do ye, Moses and Aaron, let the people from their works? get you unto your burdens. [Exodus 5:4] And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now [are] many, and ye make them rest [Shabath, same word used in Genesis 2:2-3, meaning: to cease, or keep Sabbath] from their burdens. [Exodus 5:5] And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I [am] the LORD that healeth thee. [Exodus 15:26]

    Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. [Exodus 16:4]

    GOD already has a LAW, and it is not called the “Hebrews Law”, but GOD calls it “MY LAW”

    And he said unto them, This [is that] which the LORD hath said, To morrow [is] the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake [that] which ye will bake [to day], and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. [Exodus 16:23] And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day [is] a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field. [Exodus 16:25] Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, [which is] the sabbath [this does not say that the 7th day now becomes the Sabbath, but it says that the 7th day is the Sabbath already, as it always had been], in it there shall be none. [Exodus 16:26] And it came to pass, [that] there went out [some] of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. [Exodus 16:27] And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? [Exodus 16:28] See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. [Exodus 16:29]

    So the people rested on the seventh day. [Exodus 16:30] [Exodus 16 takes place 2 weeks before Mt. Sinai. As shown above God's people before the written Word of God had the spoken Word of God and God's people had God's laws before and the Sabbath from creation after the fall.

    As shown earlier the Sabbath was made at creation before sin for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27.

    As posted earlier, Your claims here are in error. Sunday worship is a man made teaching and tradition that has lead many to break God's 4th commandments that is not biblical.

    There is not a single scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday or the first day of the week as a Holy day.

    The question we should ask oursevles is who are we following; God or men?

    God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him *John 10:26-27
     
    #182 3rdAngel, Nov 11, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  3. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Just putting this up again as we seem to be getting distracted from the OP...

    The challenge I am putting up here in this OP is for anyone to show even one scripture that says God's 4th Commandment of the 10 commandments (Exodus 20:8-11) which was spoken and written by God himself to his people, has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday (or the first day of the week) as a Holy day.

    Can anyone please show me where in all the bible does is say (SOLA SCRIPTURA; Scripture only please)...

    1. That God's 4th commandments 7th day Sabbath has been abolished?

    2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

    3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

    4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

    5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

    6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

    7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

    8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

    9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

    10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

    11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

    12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

    13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

    14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

    15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

    16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

    17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

    18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

    19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

    21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

    22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

    23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

    25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

    26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

    27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

    ...................

    Something to think about here because we are all accountable to God come judgment day where we will all be judged by the Word of God (John 12:47-48).

    God's Word makes it very clear that if we follow the teachings of men over the Word of God we are not following God...

    MATTHEW 15:3-9 [3],
    [3], But he answered and said unto them, Why do you also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
    [4], For God commanded, saying, Honor your father and mother: and, He that curses father or mother, let him die the death.
    [5], But you say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift devoted to God, whatsoever you might have received from me;
    [6], And honors not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have you made the commandment of God void by your tradition.
    [7], You hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
    [8], These people draw near unto me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    [9], But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    If we are KNOWINGLY breaking ANY of God's commandments we are not worshipping God.

    Look forward to your thoughts...
     
  4. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    It is so utterly pathetic that you can't seem to understand what the number "two" stands for as in "two Commandments" that Jesus said we must follow, namely the love of God and the Golden Rule. On top of not understanding "two", you virtually ignore what Jesus and Paul said about the "end of the Law", the verses of which I showed you from the New Testament on a previous post.

    You just cannot seem to understand that the Ten Commandments, as well as the other 603 Commandments, just apply to Jews, not Gentiles. And this is why the Twelve gradually walked away from the Law, such as Peter's vision that led to the abandonment of the kosher laws for example.

    IOW, there are 613 Commandments as found in Torah and they are mandated for Israelites/Jews only. The teachings of Jesus verifies this, as well as what Paul states on numerous occasions in regards to the end of the Law. For some reason you just cannot bring yourself to even begin to understand and accept that simple basic fact.

    Oh well.
     
  5. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    Let me repeat the question....do you follow all of the commandments and laws of the old Testament?
     
  6. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Thank you but I understand perfectly. I also believe JESUS when he says "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE (to God and man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40.

    I also understand the role of God's LAW (10 Commandment) in the new covenant which is to give us a "KNOWLEDGE" of what sin is when they are broken *Romans 3:20; 1 John 3-4; Romans 7:7 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25 which is who the law leads us to *Romans 10:4.

    This is in contrast to some who are deluded into thinking that God's LAW is abolished. God's WORD does not teach lawlessness. This is the very doctrine of devils. Salvation is from sin not to continue in it *John 8:31-36; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4.

    If you continue in sin you will die *Romans 8:13 because all those who do so reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of grace *Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-31.

    SIN is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10. Those who are God's children do not practice sin *1 John 3:4-6; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4 as the scriptures teach; For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified *Romans 2:12-13.

    God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 Commandments *Exodus 20:1-17 that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and just any of Gods 10 commandments if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11.

    There is no scripture in all of Gods WORD that says God's 4th commandment has been abolsihed and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a teaching and tradition of men that breaks the commandments of God. JESUS says all those who knowingly follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not following God *Matthew 15:3-9.

    The question we must ask ourselves is who do we believe and follow; God or man? As it is written by their fruits you shall know them and now also the ax is laid to the root of the trees: every tree therefore which brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire *John 15:1-10; Matthew 3:9.

    Who do you believe and follow?
     
  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    You are confused JESUS and the Apostles upheld God's 10 commandments all through the new testament. Perhaps you need a new bible as yours has seemed to lost most of it's pages.

    WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW
    (the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive)

    Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..


    1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
    2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
    3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40)
    4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
    5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
    6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
    7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 5:19)
    8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

    Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

    1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
    2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Corinthians 7:19
    3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Romans 2:13-16
    4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Romans 3:31
    5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:6-8
    6 Paul teaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Hebrews 8:10-11
    7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2 Timothy 3:16
    AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
    8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Ephesians 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
    9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Romans 7:12)
    10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; 7:7)
    11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Romans 6:23)
    12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Romans 2:23)
    13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Romans 3:19)
    14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Romans 3:31)
    15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Romans 6:1-7)
    16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Romans 6:15)
    17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Romans 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
    18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Galatians 3:24)
    19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Romans 6:22)
    20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Romans 2:4-13)
    21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Romans 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Hebrews 8:9-10)
    22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    John affirms the 10 commandments……

    1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
    2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
    3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
    4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
    5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
    6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
    7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
    8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
    9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
    10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
    11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
    12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12; 22:14)

    James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

    1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
    2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
    3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
    4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
    5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

    Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

    1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Peter 1:2)
    2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Peter 1:5)
    3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Peter 1:13-16)
    4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Peter 2:21-22)
    5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Peter 4:1-3)
    6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
    7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Peter 1:2-4)
    8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Peter 2:6)
    9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Peter 2:20-22)
    10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Peter 3:5-14)

    What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

    1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
    2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
    3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
    4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
    5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
    6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
    7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; Ezekiel 20:20)
    8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22)
    9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

    God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts through faith to love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

    Yep you need a new bible.
     
  8. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    It is because I believe and follow God's WORD. Not man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. According to God's WORD in the new covenant God's ISRAEL are all those who believe and follow God's WORD *Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 9:6; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11; Romans 10:11-13. If you are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant you have no part in the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27.

    You are confused in the MOSAIC shadow laws that pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the new covenant *Hebrews 7; Hebrews 8; Hebrews 9; Hebrews 10; Ephesians 2 and Colossians 2 with God's eternal law that gives us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant *Romans 3:20; 1 John 3:4. There is no 613 commandments in God's 10 commandments.

    Let me ask you plainly again. How many commandments are there in God's 10 commandments (scripture only please); 7; 9; 10 or 613? Here is a hint here *Deuteronomy 10:4.

    Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. You are in error. I hope you can receive Gods' Word in the spirit (love) which is only sent as a help to you.

    Receieve God's WORD and be blessed.
     
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    I follow JESUS and God's WORD.
     
  10. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    When one insists that "God's Law" is just the Ten Commandments, they start off entirely on the wrong foot, thus ignoring what's found in Torah. But that viewpoint is null and void anyway because both Jesus and Paul stated quite clearly that Jewish Law, which starts out with the Decalogue, is not mandated for Gentiles. Instead, Jesus taught the "law of love" plus some additional Commandments, only some of which were carried over from Jewish Law.

    The first century Church continued on with the Sabbath observance, but they also celebrated the "Agape Meal" on Sunday, which was Jesus' resurrection day. On that day, the Eucharist was also celebrated as ordered by Jesus.

    During the second century, the Sabbath observance gradually got dropped because by then the Church was overwhelmingly Gentile, plus the view was, which echoed Paul's words, that Jesus' resurrection was far more important than a ritual involving just one day of the week.

    Jesus had sent us the Holy Spirit as a guide. A static ship needs no guidance-- only a mobile one does. The Church made the decision to move to a Sunday observance, much like that same Church chose the canon of the Bible in the fourth century. If one insists that the Church could not change the day of observance, then maybe they should give their Bible to someone else as that also was a byproduct of the Church.

    Therefore, to insist that only a Sabbath observance is Christian literally makes not one iota of sense, and to use only meeting on the Sabbath as being some sort of litmus test for "true Christianity" is nothing more than legalistic ritualism at it's worst.
     
  11. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    No one has insisted on any such thing and if no one has ever said there are not other laws in the Torah besides Gods' 10 commandments why do you pretend that they have?

    There are many laws all throughout God's Word. However, there are only 10 Commandments that are directly spoken and written by God alone with God's own finger on two tables of stone. The 10 commandments are the very definition of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and rightouesness when obeyed *Psalms 119:172 and every other commandment in God's Word revolves around these, as our duty of LOVE to God and man *Matthew 22:36-40; Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Romans 13:8-10; Hebrews 8:10-12; James 2:8-12.

    This includes God's 4th Commandment which is one of God's 4th commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20.

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break the commandments of God which JESUS warns us about in his own words in Matthew 15:3-9.

    The question this OP poses is who are we following the teachings and traditions of men; or the Word of God?
     
    #191 3rdAngel, Nov 13, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  12. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Rubbish! These are simply your words denying God's Word. JESUS and all the Apostles taught, upheld and magnified God's LAW all through the new covenant. Perhaps we read a different bible or you need a new bible as most of the pages have fallen out of yours? As shared with you already in another thread, God's Word disagrees with your words which are not Gods...

    WHAT DID JESUS AND THE APOSTLES TEACH ABOUT GOD’S LAW
    (the scriptures below are no where near exhaustive)

    Jesus taught the 10 commandments…..


    1. Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
    2. Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
    3. Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40)
    4. If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
    5. Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
    6. Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
    7. If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven <least = lost> (Matt 5:19)
    8. No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

    Paul affirms the Ten Commandments……

    1. Paul teaches God's people keep the Sabbath Hebrews 4.
    2. Paul tells gentiles that "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Corinthians 7:19
    3. Paul tells gentiles "it is not the HEARERS of the Law that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be justified... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God will judge all mankind" Romans 2:13-16
    4. Paul asks that gentiles consider the doctrine of LAW "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law of God" Romans 3:31
    5. Paul tells ALL Christians that it is only the lost who will "not subject themselves to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they" Romans 8:6-8
    6 Paul teaches all Christians under the NEW Covenant that God's LAW as known in Jer 31:31-33 is "written on the heart and mind" Hebrews 8:10-11
    7. Paul tells all Christians that the OT text is to be used for Doctrine 2 Timothy 3:16
    AND He never claims that "if I did not write it -- it is not scripture for us today" -- as one or two have imagined for us.
    8. Paul tells all Christians that the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" Ephesians 6:1-2 and is binding on all Christians.
    9. God's Law (10 commandments) are holy, just and good (Romans 7:12)
    10. God's Law gives us a knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; 7:7)
    11. The penalty of breaking God's Law without Jesus is death (Romans 6:23)
    12. If we break God's Law we dishonor God (Romans 2:23)
    13. If we sin we are "under the Law" and guilty before God (Romans 3:19)
    14. We are saved by faith but our faith establishes the Law in us (Romans 3:31)
    15. If we are saved by grace we should not break God's Law (Romans 6:1-7)
    16. We should not break God's Law if we are under grace (Romans 6:15)
    17. We are to serve the Law of God through the mind because that is where sin starts (Romans 6:17; 7:25; 8:4; 12:2)
    18. It is God's Law that brings us to Jesus (Galatians 3:24)
    19. God's salvation frees us from sin so we can be obedient to God's Law and live a life of holiness (Romans 6:22)
    20. We will be judged by God's Law and only those that are obedient will be justified because of their faith (Romans 2:4-13)
    21. God's Law can only be obeyed through love and a changed heart which comes by faith in God's Word (Romans 2:21-29; 13:9-10; Hebrews 8:9-10)
    22. If we break God's Law and are in unrepentant sin we will be lost and will received God's judgements (Hebrews 10:26-27)

    Continued...
     
  13. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    John affirms the 10 commandments……

    1. John says it is only by keeping God’s 10 commandments that we know that we know God (1 John 2:3)
    2. If someone says that they know God and do not keep God’s 10 commandments they are lying and not telling the truth (1 John 2:4)
    3. We should purify ourselves as Jesus is pure (1 John 3:3)
    4. Sin is the breaking of God’s 10 commandments (1 John 3:4)
    5. Whoever is abiding in Christ does not commit sin (1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10)
    6. If you are in unrepentant sin you have not seen Jesus or know him (1 John 3:6)
    7. John warns us that only those that are obedience to God’s Law are his true followers (1 John 3:7)
    8. If someone is committing unrepentant sin they are following the devil and not God (1 John 3:7)
    9. If you are born of God and abiding in him you will not commit sin (1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:6; John 15:4-10
    10. It is the keeping of God’s commandments that is the difference between those that are following God and those that are not following God (1 John 3:10; 1 John 5:3)
    11. It is only by Love through faith that we can keep God’s commandments (1 John 5:3-4)
    12. God’s true believers in the end days will keep all of God’s commandments through faith in Jesus (Rev 14:12; 22:14)

    James also affirms the 10 commandments…….

    1. James says God’s Law (10 commandments) are a Royal Law (James 2:8)
    2. If we break one of God’s commandments we a guilty before God as sinners breaking all of God’s Law and gave some examples of breaking God’s Law (James 2:9-11)
    3. James says God’s Law is a law of liberty and freedom (James 2:12)
    4. The 10 commandments (God’s Law) are the standard in the judgment (James 2:12)
    5. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God’s Law it is dead and not true faith (James 2:16-26)

    Peter affirms the 10 commandments……..

    1. Sanctification is to obedience to God’s Law (1 Peter 1:2)
    2. We can only be changed from sin to obedience to God’s Law by the power of God and it will be revealed in the last days (1 Peter 1:5)
    3. We should give up our sins to be holy because Jesus is holy (1 Peter 1:13-16)
    4. Jesus is your example who did no sin (1 Peter 2:21-22)
    5. Cease from sin and do not live in the flesh (1 Peter 4:1-3)
    6. Judgement will begin at the house of God and sinners (those breaking God’s 10 commandments) will not be saved.
    7. God has given us his precious promises and as we believe them God will grant us his divine power to live a life of Godliness (obedience to God’s Law; 2 Peter 1:2-4)
    8. The Un-Godly (disobedient to God’s Law) will be like Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Peter 2:6)
    9. If any turn away from God’s Law and are in unrepentant sin breaking any of God’10 commandments they will be lost (2 Peter 2:20-22)
    10 God is not willing that any should perish but that everyone should come to repentance and turn away from sin to follow God’s 10 commandments because those that do not will receive the judgements of God (2 Peter 3:5-14)

    What did Jesus and the Apostles teach about the Sabbath in the New Testament?

    1. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)
    2. Jesus made the Sabbath for all mankind (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)
    3. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28)
    4. If you do not believe and follow God you cannot enter His Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4)
    5. It is one of God’s 10 commandments we break it we are guilty or breaking all (James 2:8-12)
    6. Breaking it is sin (1 John 3:4)
    7. God’s true followers keep it Holy as God commanded (Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; Ezekiel 20:20)
    8. Jesus is our example and he kept the Sabbath (Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1 Corinthians 11:1; Ephesians 5:1-21; Peter 2:20-22)
    9. The Apostle kept the Sabbath (Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

    God’s Law in the NC is written on our hearts through faith to love and it is love the fulfils God’s Law in us as we walk not after the flesh but after the spirit and is why Jesus says f you love me keep my commandments. (John 14:15; John 15:10). If we knowingly break one of God’s commandments we commit sin (1 John 3:4). This includes the 7th Day Sabbath which Jesus made for us and commands us to keep as a holy day.

    Yep you need a new bible.
     
  14. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    I am sorry brother but you are confused. These are once again your words which are not God's.
    You cannot separate God's LAW (10 commandments) from LOVE because obedience to God's LAW is how our love is expressed to both God and man and is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO COMMANDMENTS OF LOVE (to God and man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40. Both Paul and James express the very same things in Romans 13:8-10 and James 2:8-12 linking LOVE to obedience to God's LAW *Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4 which is the new covenant promise to God's people. *Hebrews 8:10-12.
    Rubbish! The is a man-made teaching that is not biblical.
    Rubbish! God's 4th commandment has been kept by God's people all through time to JESUS and the Apostles to the disciples afterwards all through time "unbroken" to this very present day. Let me know if you would like the historical references.
    As posted in the OP it is a man-made teaching and tradition that breaks the commandments of God as warned by JESUS in Matthew 15:3-9. Who should we believe and follow; the teachings and dogmas of man or the Word of God *Romans 3:4; Acts 5:29; Matthew 15:3-9; Hebrews 10:26-39?
    Sure it makes sense. Your promoting man-made teachings and traditions that are not biblical that lead people away from God's WORD when only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. The question we must ask ourselves is who are we following; the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God; or the Word of God?

    God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word of God) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow and are not his sheep *John 10:1-10; John 10:26-27,

    May you hear His Voice and be blessed.
     
  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    And Jesus said "judge ye not...", but the above shows that you very much are willing to ignore what Jesus taught us. Thus, there's no need for me or anyone else to show just how judgmental you are willing to be in violation of what Jesus taught.

    fini
     
  16. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Jesus says also "Judge not according to appearance but judge righteous judgment *John 7:24. If none of us are righteous *Romans 3:10 without God's Word what do you think the meaning of the scriptures mean? I do not judge you. It is the Word of God that is our judge *John 12:47-48 and that is all that has been shared here. If only God's Word has been shared here than receive Gods' Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it dissappear.
     
    #196 3rdAngel, Nov 14, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  17. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    Do you follow all of the Old Testament laws and commandments?

    Hint: It's a really easy question, and can be answered with a "yes" or "no".
     
  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Generally No! There is no need as much of the shadow laws for remission of sin are fulfilled in JESUS (sin offerings, cermial laws in ordinances, Sanctuary laws, Levitical priesthood etc) and God's plan of salvation in the new testament. See Hebrews 7; Hebrews 8; Hebrews 9; Hebrews 10; Ephesians 2 and Colossians 2. Although of course there are other laws in the Torah that are still applicable to God's people today for example the health and hygiene laws and supporting laws around God's law (10 commandments).
     
    #198 3rdAngel, Nov 15, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  19. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    No.
     
  20. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    Where is the commandment that expressly eliminates the need to follow all the other laws?
     
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