Man as god

[theosis]

In his gnostic novel VALIS, Phillip K. Dick has the character of Sophia (Wisdom) tell the main character (himself) that:

Man is holy, and the true god, the living god, is man himself. You will have no gods but yourselves; the days in which you believe in other gods end now, they end forever.

It reminds me very much of my favorite verse from the Gospel of Phillip:

God created man. [...] men create God. That is the way it is in the world - men make gods and worship their creation. It would be fitting for the gods to worship men!

What do you think of this theology?

 

[Sunstone]

It seems to me it has a lot of truth to it.

 

[Sha'irullah]

In general the Gnostic viewpoint is that Jesus was not a physical person but a spiritual being appearing to others as a person.

The story of Barabbas and Jesus for example has been used for Gnostics to display the mercy of god upon the sinner

 

[theosis]

In general the Gnostic viewpoint is that Jesus was not a physical person but a spiritual being appearing to others as a person.

The story of Barabbas and Jesus for example has been used for Gnostics to display the mercy of god upon the sinner

This actually doesn't have anything to do with a discussion of whether Jesus was man or God, it has to do with a redefinition of "god" itself to mean Mankind. It's closely related to the idea of a Primal Man or "Heavenly Adam."

An interesting passage from the Jewish Encyclopedia:

As with Philo the Logos is the original image of man, or the original man, so in the Zohar the heavenly man is the embodiment of all divine manifestations: the Ten Sefirot, the original image of man. The heavenly Adam, stepping forth out of the highest original darkness, created the earthly Adam (Zohar, ii. 70b). In other words, the activity of the Original Essence manifested itself in the creation of man, who at the same time is the image of the Heavenly Man and of the universe (Zohar, ii. 48), just as with Plato and Philo the idea of man, as microcosm, embraces the idea of the universe or macrocosm.

ADAM

 

[NIX]

The fall of man from the connection with/realization of his/her own godhood,
and consequent 'expultion' from the sacred garden of the Transcendent Self (or 'Heavenly Man').

 

[Knight of Albion]

There is a lot of truth to that statement. God created man in His image (in the spiritual sense - 'the sanctuary of love and justice') but man distorted God in his image (the multi-purpose God of Orthodoxy who will overlook much and smite your enemies!)

 

[theosis]

There is a lot of truth to that statement. God created man in His image (in the spiritual sense - 'the sanctuary of love and justice') but man distorted God in his image (the multi-purpose God of Orthodoxy who will overlook much and smite your enemies!)

I think that's the general meaning of the Phillip quote, but I'd take it a few steps further -- man has invented external gods that exist only in his imagination. Godhead resides in Man.

 

[nazz]

I don't agree that man is the ONLY god. Such thinking would be seen gnostically speaking as the same mistake the Demiurge made in regarding himself as the only god. But it is certainly true that human beings have become like gods, a fact that hearkens back to the creation myth of Genesis. We are in effect gods in the making (just consider the technological powers we have developed with respect to the natural world, powers that were credited to the gods in ancient times). But there are higher beings above our level.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

In his gnostic novel VALIS, Phillip K. Dick has the character of Sophia (Wisdom) tell the main character (himself) that:

Man is holy, and the true god, the living god, is man himself. You will have no gods but yourselves; the days in which you believe in other gods end now, they end forever.

It reminds me very much of my favorite verse from the Gospel of Phillip:

God created man. [...] men create God. That is the way it is in the world - men make gods and worship their creation. It would be fitting for the gods to worship men!

What do you think of this theology?

Not only is it absolutely true, its much less pernicious than theism. Rather than grovelling in the dirt before our own graven image, we recognize that, if anything is divine at all, it is ourselves. After all, what is God other than the personification of the human desire to create, and to trascend all the limitations and privations that make us human (sin, impotency, ignorance, mortality, etc.)? Why the need for the middleman, particularly when it has caused so many damage, lead to so many irrational and false beliefs, and tends to undermine a positive attitude towards life in general?

On the other hand, I could see how such a doctrine could lead to complacency; the one good thing that the concept of God has done is provide an ideal- an embodiment of human perfection, towards which we strive. If we are already gods, then what do we need to strive for? Why try to improve or perfect ourselves any further? In other words, it may be best to simply dispense with the notion of gods- and thus of the inherent superiority of divinity- altogether; can anyone tell me what, if anything, would be lost if we let go of this concept forever?

 

[Enai de a lukal]

But there are higher beings above our level.

Can you name one?

 

[nazz]

Not only is it absolutely true, its much less pernicious than theism. Rather than grovelling in the dirt before our own graven image, we recognize that, if anything is divine at all, it is ourselves. After all, what is God other than the personification of the human desire to create, and to trascend all the limitations and privations that make us human (sin, impotency, ignorance, mortality, etc.)? Why the need for the middleman, particularly when it has caused so many damage, lead to so many irrational and false beliefs, and tends to undermine a positive attitude towards life in general?

On the other hand, I could see how such a doctrine could lead to complacency; the one good thing that the concept of God has done is provide an ideal- an embodiment of human perfection, towards which we strive. If we are already gods, then what do we need to strive for? Why try to improve or perfect ourselves any further? In other words, it may be best to simply dispense with the notion of gods- and thus of the inherent superiority of divinity- altogether; can anyone tell me what, if anything, would be lost if we let go of this concept forever?

pretty much everything

 

[theosis]

I don't agree that man is the ONLY god. Such thinking would be seen gnostically speaking as the same mistake the Demiurge made in regarding himself as the only god. But it is certainly true that human beings have become like gods, a fact that hearkens back to the creation myth of Genesis. We are in effect gods in the making (just consider the technological powers we have developed with respect to the natural world, powers that were credited to the gods in ancient times). But there are higher beings above our level.

Not any individual human being but Man - the abstract concept. Man is higher than any individual man, but we are all part of Man. Other divinities are the archons.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

pretty much everything

Riiiight. In other words, nothing in particular. Gotcha.

 

[nazz]

Not any individual human being but Man - the abstract concept. Man is higher than any individual man, but we are all part of Man. Other divinities are the archons.

Yes, I got that it was man in general that was meant. But humanity exists within an overall framework, a natural--and supernatural--order. We should respect our place within that. That is what I mean. All conflict results from beings not being in harmony with other beings both above and below.

 

[theosis]

Yes, I got that it was man in general that was meant. But humanity exists within an overall framework, a natural--and supernatural--order. We should respect our place within that. That is what I mean. All conflict results from beings not being in harmony with other beings both above and below.

What beings above?

 

[nazz]

What beings above?

Well in Gnostic lore that would be demons and angels, archons and aeons, etc. There could also very well be more advanced physical beings in this universe that would seem godlike to us.

 

[theosis]

Well in Gnostic lore that would be demons and angels, archons and aeons, etc. There could also very well be more advanced physical beings in this universe that would seem godlike to us.

Gnosticism is all about metaphor and non-literal interpretation -- do you believe spiritual entities such as demons actually exist outside our minds?

 

[theosis]

Strangely enough, I've found a Mormon tractate with somewhat similar theology:

"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another." -- Joseph Smith

 

[nazz]

Gnosticism is all about metaphor and non-literal interpretation -- do you believe spiritual entities such as demons actually exist outside our minds?

Actually I do. And I don't think the ancient Gnostics would disagree with me. But even if they don't it doesn't change anything. They are still powerful spiritual forces.

What is the basis for your statement "Gnosticism is all about metaphor and non-literal interpretation"?

 

[Whiterain]

The Gods seem to be a different species from Man to my understanding. This is made clear in some legends in Gnosticism.

The Quote is preposterous, Man is not God. Our independence from God is trivial even insulting when the beginnings of the knowledge that we have today began with their gifts or teachings, it's an argument that is voided over lack of proof. The origin of modern day science is witch craft, etc, which came from the Gods.