Maltheism

[DianeVera]

I don't mean to be disrespectful in any way, but when I read about maltheism I just burst out laughing! Just picture, a bunch of guys huddled in someone's basement, burning bibles and talking about how much god sucks. There's a picture on the wall of a Santa Clause-looking elderly gentleman in blue robes and surrounded by clouds, with darts in it.

Beware, Jehovah's Witnesses! This is one house you do NOT want to call on. Let the hazing begin.

Are you at all familiar with Gnosticism? Maltheism overlaps with (though is not identical to) Gnosticism. Have you heard of the ancient Gnostic concepts of the Demiurge and the Archons?

 

[DianeVera]

To clarify something I said earlier:

I personally regard the true cosmic God as neither "good" nor "evil" in any humanly meaningful sense, but as just impersonal. In my opinion, Nature itself is far too impersonal in its workings to suggest a cosmic God who has any interest in relating to humans in a parental-like way.

So, as far as my beliefs about the cosmic God are concerned, I'm neither a maltheist nor a theophile. I could perhaps be called a maltheist w.r.t. the Christian "God" (whom I don't believe is the true cosmic God) but a theophile w.r.t. Satan/Azazel.

I should add that I don't regard ANY spiritual entity as either all-good or all-evil, so that last sentence is a bit of an oversimplication.

 

[Prima]

Well, here's my question. I'm very familiar with the idea that God is just a childish, arrogant jerk. Is this a form of Maltheism?

The idea that I'm familiar with, to explain more, is that God, being perhaps the only divine being and perhaps not, somewhere got an overexaggerated idea of his self-importance. He therefore encouraged worship of himself, decided to sit up in heaven to make himself look more important, and generally basked in the light of being worshiped.

Now, my other question is - why are we all more offended and bewildered by the idea that some people see God as bad than the idea that a whole lot of people see Satan as bad? You can't prove either one. We're more familiar with the idea that people consider Satan to be 'bad! bad! bad!' but shouldn't we see people seeing God as 'bad! bad! bad!' in just the same light?

Also, could it be that people are just calling things with different names? 'A rose by any other name smells as sweet' Say there are two opposing forces - good and evil. If I call evil Satan and good God, is that really much different than those who call evil God and good Satan? We put so much emphasis on names (using the Lord's name in vain, etc) but we forget that in religion, names matter as little as they do in real life.

*takes breath*

Okay, attack me with ideas now

 

[Maxist]

I do not mean to get anyone angry with me; but that is the most psycotic thing that I have ever heard. The very definition of god is a perfect being which can do no wrong, and has no faults. And the definition of Satan is the opposite in all ways from god. So that would mean that Satan is a perfect being that can do no wrong. So it is Satanism (if it is not with the same reason or veiws).

 

[rojse]

I am a new member to the forum, having just discovered this forum with such a diverse range of religious discussions. Although I would consider myself as an aetheist, if I did believe in God, I think my belief would be from a Maltheist perspective, as there is far too much injustices in the world to be explained by a benevolent God.

I have several questions about Maltheism, though.

All of this topic so far, and the rest of the information I have came across, is for maltheists who believe the Christian God is evil and deceitful, and only quotes from the Bible are given on this matter. Does maltheism apply to other religious groups as well, such as Muslim and so forth? By this, I mean are there Christian Maltheists, Muslim Maltheists and so forth? Or is Maltheism a blanket term for any person who believes that God, of any religion, is evil and deceitful?

Where does the idea that lack of God worship will lessen God's grip upon earth come from?

What makes you believe that God exists?

Any answers or direction on this matter will be greatly appreciated.

 

[kittyqueen]

Looks like I'm a maltheist. I never thought there were other people that shared those views about God with me, so cool.

 

[Gambit]

What are your thoughts on Maltheism?

I believe "maltheists" are stuck in polarity consciousness.

 

[Gambit]

I do not mean to get anyone angry with me; but that is the most psycotic thing that I have ever heard. The very definition of god is a perfect being which can do no wrong, and has no faults. And the definition of Satan is the opposite in all ways from god. So that would mean that Satan is a perfect being that can do no wrong. So it is Satanism (if it is not with the same reason or veiws).

I'm not angry with you, but I disagree with your word choice. I would have said "immature," not "psychotic."

 

[kittyqueen]

I'm just going to put some thoughts about it, I just said that it defined me. lol

I can't say anything about other maltheists, but in my case it happened just because I disagreed with some rules of the religion I was raised in. Then, istead of trying to fit into other people's expetations, I decided to go against it even though I'd end up by getting punished. This gave me some problems related to my emotional state, of course. I just gave up my religious beliefs for awhile to avoid "compromising my sanity". I'm not sure how psychologically other maltheists are or why they think like that, but I wasn't doing so well with it.

By the way, I'm not a satanist. Satanists have a favorable view of Satan, but I don't even though the god I'm against is the christian God.

 

[Andy Rhodes]

I do not mean to get anyone angry with me; but that is the most psycotic thing that I have ever heard. The very definition of god is a perfect being which can do no wrong, and has no faults. And the definition of Satan is the opposite in all ways from god. So that would mean that Satan is a perfect being that can do no wrong. So it is Satanism (if it is not with the same reason or veiws).

That definition of God comes from a specific tradition: Judeo-Greco-Christian. The Greeks like Plato believed in a necessarily perfect god and the neo-platonists influenced the theologian Augustine 600+ years later who is well established as the most important thinker in Christian history. Nearly all of the other thousands of religions and mythologies did not think this way about divinity.

Judaism itself was far more earthy than what platonism turned their Abrahamic religion into. The Apostle Paul somewhat broke away from his Jewish intellectual and theological heritage and mixed Greek and Roman thought into several central teachings of the New Testament. He had been educated deeply and widely in the ideas of the surrounding Mediterranean cultural histories.

When I look at the mass suffering built into the structure of nature, having nothing to do with human actions (non-human animals experienced tremendous pain, terror, starvation, disease and being eaten alive for more than 300 million years), I cannot imagine God to be completely good. It contradicts every basic humane and ethical instinct within our psychology. The horrific environment in place for sentient life includes earthquakes, tornadoes, floods, meteors, volcanoes and tsunamis - all necessary and inevitable parts of the cosmic and planetary design set in motion 13.7 billion years ago. For example, without plate tectonics occurring there would be no land above the oceans. But, this process creates volcanoes, earthquakes and huge tidal waves.

Add to that extreme human pain, ignorance, historically short life spans, confusion, inherent bents often toward violence and divine revelation that has been vague or impractical or scientifically inaccurate or nonexistent for the 100,000-200,000 years of our species' time on Earth. To blame these kinds of things on the human race, as Christianity has done, is to ignore the obvious commonalities our behavior shares with other animals, the loads of multidisciplinary evidence showing how our traits have evolved through our kinship with chimpanzees and bonobos and that there is no record of a human who overcame these baser tendencies in the grandiose ways that Jesus emphatically promised was possible if his followers did as he instructed.

If God knew that this much extreme pain would be intrinsic in this kind of universe, then god should not have created. Or God should have created a different kind of cosmos, not one necessarily without pain or mystery, but one in proportion to what would actually allow for the flourishing of sentient beings. What we've had instead has been a horrendous mess with most attempts to progress stifled by the overwhelming puzzles and oppressive natural forces that lead all of us into defeat in many ways. Sure, wonderful things have been accomplishmented. At what cost? The achievements and potential for greatness and health are far, far outpaced by the intensely painful limitations. Consider that at least 100,000 years passes before humans were able to understand germ theory and cure the most rudimentary of diseases. A compassionate God would share that kind of information at the beginning, if not simply prevent the diseases in the first place.

I've written, debated and researched these subjects since the late 1990s. I used to work for two leading evangelical Christian apologetics ministries that reached out to skeptics and equipped believers regarding the veracity of the faith. Gradually, I concluded that based on what Christian theologians call the natural revelation of divine craftmanship and sustenance of the physical world and other religions and through through the special revelation of the Bible that the real or fictional God was at least partly evil. I could see many good and beautiful things in life and the sciences, but it also seemed so callous for God to intentionally make a universe with so much pain for sentient beings.

I eventually put together some writings about these topics here:

disagreementsihavewithchristianity.wordpress.com/

I've worked really hard on this blog. I'd love to thoughts on it from any readers in this forum.