Male Bias

[Ellen Brown]

For all the times men dumped me just like that, I should hate the male gender by now...lol...

Connecting with another human being ... Far too risky for me at my age... I am sorry for your pain. Blessings to you sister.

 

[Estro Felino]

Blessings to you sister.

...what?

 

[Jumi]

If means, if their hypothesis is correct, that some men dominated other men. Lots and lots of slaves I would imagine. So the more dominate of males got their genes passed on. Male domination created a greater female diversity vs males. So yes you are right, but I guess who cares about the losers?

History at least doesn't remember them except on hieroglyphs like the one where pharaoh holds a mace over their heads... There's an island off of Somalia/Yemen where there are multiple local female lines, but the male lines are same as on the continent.

 

[Nakosis]

And, if the man is loving and decent, I am quite happy to let him do so. Some/many/most (?) women have encountered angry, brutal, abusive and molesting males and are very wary, perhaps even to the point of over reacting even to good men. I want to obey God, but to be obedient to an abusive man ???

Yes, like my mom. She was abused by men her entire life. She became an alcoholic, myself and my brother being males, she was never able to have any kind of relationship with us.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Racial bias is so obvious and shameful. This post is about what men do to women, which is far less obvious. I am not saying that Genesis 3:16 and some other passages are not still in effect. It would be nice if men were a bit more kind.

I don't agree that racial bias is neccessarily more obvious than gender bias.
But it hardly matters. I was agreeing with your OP, basically.

 

[Kenny]

And, if the man is loving and decent, I am quite happy to let him do so. Some/many/most (?) women have encountered angry, brutal, abusive and molesting males and are very wary, perhaps even to the point of over reacting even to good men. I want to obey God, but to be obedient to an abusive man ???

Not at all. Scripturally, position and authority of a man was to be used by serving and laying down his life for his wife, not abuse her. Eph 5. Paul said to the man "you take care of your wife like you take care of your body and you don't abuse your body". (paraphrased)

 

[shunyadragon]

Not at all. Scripturally, position and authority of a man was to be used by serving and laying down his life for his wife, not abuse her. Eph 5. Paul said to the man "you take care of your wife like you take care of your body and you don't abuse your body". (paraphrased)

This does not address the issue of the role of women in society, problem of male bias, and equal social and legal rights for women..

Did not answer the following problem . . .

The scripture from the Christian perspective is not only for those days, and it is as much for today as 'those days.'

The Baha'i Faith view is the Bible scripture was for 'those days.'

 

[Kenny]

This does not address the issue of the role of women in society, problem of male bias, and equal social and legal rights for women..

Did not answer the following problem . . .

The scripture from the Christian perspective is not only for those days, and it is as much for today as 'those days.'

The Baha'i Faith view is the Bible scripture was for 'those days.'

Quite frankly, I have no idea what "problem" you are addressing.

In Christ, there is neither male or female... if society wants to distort the reality that a female is just as capable as a man (as I already said), then it is a societal problem that needs to be fixed.

 

[shunyadragon]

Quite frankly, I have no idea what "problem" you are addressing.

In Christ, there is neither male or female... if society wants to distort the reality that a female is just as capable as a man (as I already said), then it is a societal problem that needs to be fixed.

The problem is not that, and in all religions since the beginning have Revealed that male and female are equal before God, but not in social and legal equality here on earth, and I cited the references in the NT that advocate social and legal 'Male bias,' which is the issue of the thread.

Again in response to you post . . .

This does not address the issue of the role of women in society, problem of male bias, and equal social and legal rights for women..

Did not answer the following problem . . .

The scripture from the Christian perspective is not only for those days, and it is as much for today as 'those days.'

The Baha'i Faith view is the Bible scripture was for 'those days.'

 

[Kenny]

The problem is not that, and in all religions since the beginning have Revealed that male and female are equal before God, but not in social and legal equality here on earth, and I cited the references in the NT that advocate social and legal 'Male bias,' which is the issue of the thread.

Again in response to you post . . .

This does not address the issue of the role of women in society, problem of male bias, and equal social and legal rights for women..

Did not answer the following problem . . .

The scripture from the Christian perspective is not only for those days, and it is as much for today as 'those days.'

The Baha'i Faith view is the Bible scripture was for 'those days.'

And... again... there is no specifics here... just statements.

 

[shunyadragon]

And... again... there is no specifics here... just statements.

I gave the specifics in Biblical references and you failed to respond.

 

[Kenny]

I gave the specifics in Biblical references and you failed to respond.

I disagree. What I found was general opinions with no biblical references. Perhaps you can tell me where?

 

[shunyadragon]

I disagree. What I found was general opinions with no biblical references. Perhaps you can tell me where?

Paul set the standard up until the 19th century. This is a repeat of the previous post.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35(NIV) states:

"As in all the congregations of the Lord’s people. Women should remain silent in the churches, They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

1 Timothy 2: 9-15 (NASB) says:

Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

This basically remains the standard of the authority structure of the Roman Church, Mormon Church and some Protestant churches, They base their position on scripture by Paul. Before the 19th century this male authority structure in the churches and the home was almost universal in Christianity.

 

[Kenny]

Thank you for being more specific

Paul set the standard up until the 19th century. This is a repeat of the previous post.

1 Corinthians 14:33-35(NIV) states:

"As in all the congregations of the Lord’s people. Women should remain silent in the churches, They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Notice the specificity of "In the church". This has more to do with the construct of the church where men were separated from the women as well as with creating order than it is with bias. This is the western mindset that is trying to be applied in an Eastern culture. Here it is normal for couples to sit together but in those time they separated men from the women.

so imagine a wife calling out to the husband and the other side of the aisle to ask a question.... chaos so "ask their own husbands at home".

The new standard of equality between men and women caused a hunger for the women for the word of God. So questions now abounded.

No bias... just order.

1 Timothy 2: 9-15 (NASB) says:

Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

"Interpretation should not contradict the overall teaching in the New Testament, especially the example and teaching of Jesus. As Brauch notes, “Christ is the center – the Logos, the living Word, and Scripture must be viewed through the Christ filter. Jesus’ words and acts are normative and paradigmatic and should be a critical filter for interpreting scripture” (pp. 248-9). In the gospels Jesus never suggests that women’s roles were to be secondary or limited in the community of faith, even when he had the opportunity to do so.

Once these issues of translation, context, and interpretation have been considered, it seems that 1 Timothy 2:12 only prohibits women who do not have rightful authority to do so from teaching and assuming authority over men.

There is much more that could be said, as thousands of pages have been written on this one passage. At times it seems like there are diminishing returns on continuing the conversation and so I’ll stop here for now."

Defusing the 1 Timothy 2:12 Bomb - The Junia Project

I agree with this position... ESPECIALLY since there is so many other scriptures that contradict the position that women cannot have authority both in the Old and New Testament


This basically remains the standard of the authority structure of the Roman Church, Mormon Church and some Protestant churches, They base their position on scripture by Paul. Before the 19th century this male authority structure in the churches and the home was almost universal in Christianity.[/QUOTE]

Yes... some have ,misapplied the scripture.

 

[shunyadragon]

Thank you for being more specific

This was the specific post I previously posted.

Notice the specificity of "In the church". This has more to do with the construct of the church where men were separated from the women as well as with creating order than it is with bias. This is the western mindset that is trying to be applied in an Eastern culture. Here it is normal for couples to sit together but in those time they separated men from the women.

so imagine a wife calling out to the husband and the other side of the aisle to ask a question.... chaos so "ask their own husbands at home".

The new standard of equality between men and women caused a hunger for the women for the word of God. So questions now abounded.

No bias... just order.


"Interpretation should not contradict the overall teaching in the New Testament, especially the example and teaching of Jesus. As Brauch notes, “Christ is the center – the Logos, the living Word, and Scripture must be viewed through the Christ filter. Jesus’ words and acts are normative and paradigmatic and should be a critical filter for interpreting scripture” (pp. 248-9). In the gospels Jesus never suggests that women’s roles were to be secondary or limited in the community of faith, even when he had the opportunity to do so.

Once these issues of translation, context, and interpretation have been considered, it seems that 1 Timothy 2:12 only prohibits women who do not have rightful authority to do so from teaching and assuming authority over men.

There is much more that could be said, as thousands of pages have been written on this one passage. At times it seems like there are diminishing returns on continuing the conversation and so I’ll stop here for now."

Defusing the 1 Timothy 2:12 Bomb - The Junia Project

I agree with this position... ESPECIALLY since there is so many other scriptures that contradict the position that women cannot have authority both in the Old and New Testament


This basically remains the standard of the authority structure of the Roman Church, Mormon Church and some Protestant churches, They base their position on scripture by Paul. Before the 19th century this male authority structure in the churches and the home was almost universal in Christianity.

Yes... some have ,misapplied the scripture.

There is indication that they are misapplying scripture, because Paul is specific without exception. In fact, the citations are in the church and the family, and the 'male bias' authority is clear. The family is the foundation of the society, and therefore the citations apply to society as they have been up to the 19th century.

 

[Kenny]

This was the specific post I previously posted.




There is indication that they are misapplying scripture, because Paul is specific without exception. In fact, the citations are in the church and the family, and the 'male bias' authority is clear. The family is the foundation of the society, and therefore the citations apply to society as they have been up to the 19th century.

You have just erased everything I said with no support... just opinion.

 

[shunyadragon]

You have just erased everything I said with no support... just opinion.

Direct citations from the Bible are NOT opinion, and they are very specific instructions to the faithful from Paul.. You avoidance of the literal interpretation, and billions of Christian believers and many churches are wrong and you are right is opinion trying to justify you own belief.

Your only response is 'I disagree!'

 

[Kenny]

Direct citations from the Bible are NOT opinion, and they are very specific instructions to the faithful from Paul.. You avoidance of the literal interpretation, and billions of Christian believers and many churches are wrong and you are right is opinion trying to justify you own belief.

Your only response is 'I disagree!'

Direct citations that you interpreted wrong and violates positions held in other parts. Paul even addressed a woman pastor in Col 4:15 (Nympha).

So you can interpret it wrongly if you so desire.

I explained where you were wrong... but you have freedom to continue to be dogmatic

 

[shunyadragon]

Direct citations that you interpreted wrong and violates positions held in other parts. Paul even addressed a woman pastor in Col 4:15 (Nympha).

So you can interpret it wrongly if you so desire.

I explained where you were wrong... but you have freedom to continue to be dogmatic

No you explained where you believe almost 2000 years of Christianity are wrong that believe in a limited role of women in the church, family and society based on scripture, and you are right.

I personally do not believe the ancient scripture of the Bible is even relevant as a standard for the modern world.

 

[Stevicus]

And so are social constructs. The astronomer that got the prize in the OP was denied a Nobel Prize, partly because of her gender and partly because she was a graduate student. This was a grave injustice that was somewhat eliminated by this new prize (which she turned into a scholarship for women). if she has received the Nobel Prize, she would have easily had academic appointments at the top of her field with the departments begging to get her. Instead, she had a number of low level jobs where she begged for the jobs. The problem was NOT her intellectual abilities, but the society that couldn't accept a women as a scientist. Other women that are now recognized as the top of their fields underwent similar treatment (Rosalind Franklin, who did the x-ray crystallography work for the structure of DNA is another case, but there are others).

This was primarily due to biases against women in the science. And there is, truthfully, still a long way to go. Many women who would be able to do the work and also have the interest have been directed away from technical fields by 'counselors' that direct women to more 'traditional' roles.

I agree, although the most society can actually do is change the written law and make certain it is actually enforced. When we talk about "biases," we're talking about what people think and feel - sometimes without even consciously knowing it.

A lot has changed in recent decades, but I think society also sends too many mixed messages which tends to confuse a lot of people. It seemed a lot easier to grasp back in the 70s when a term like "gender equality" could be taken at face value, but now, it seems to mean whatever anyone wants it to mean. It goes all over the map.

It is kind of ironic that there is bias against women in the sciences, since one would expect scientists to take a logical and scientific view towards things like this.