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Lust

Skwim

Veteran Member
In as much as having sexual relations is a normal, very satisfying activity why would anyone not want to desire (lust for) it? Outside of those individuals addicted to it, of course.

Watching football is a normal, very satisfying activity, so why would anyone not want to desire it? Same goes for fishing and knitting.

As long as the activity is harmless and agreeable, not wanting to desire it just doesn't make sense. "I don't want to want to. . . . . " is simply an odd psychological construct.


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Deidre

Well-Known Member
Lust seems to be a natural biological thing, but if it controls your life or makes you do things that hurt others, then it's governing your life, and that's always a bad thing. But, natural sexual desire for someone else, is normal to me.
 

Spiderman

Veteran Member
Some folks praise lust* and wholly embrace it, others condemn lust and wish to purge themselves of it. Neither approach seems the wisest to me.

I think lust can be either life-affirming or life-denying -- depending on how skillfully you deal with it.

As a life-affirming emotion, it can give us the energy to live more fully and more passionately -- if at times only in regards to its object. As a life-denying emotion, it can give us the energy to ignore everything but it and what we're specifically attracted to. For instance, we might ignore someone's personality to focus only on their body.

But what do you think? How do you handle lust?



*I'm defining "lust" here as mere "sexual desire", rather than as "excessive sexual desire", although it is sometimes defined in the latter way.
I honestly pray to be purged of it and wish I didn't see beautiful women as objects. I don't like getting a boner and excited when I'm conversing with a female friend. It makes it more difficult to interact, is a distraction, and embarrassing.

For some reason with me, when I masturbate, fornicate, look at porn, or think about sex, I feel shame.

I'm not sure if this is from being indoctrinated or not.

At Mass today the reading was about reaping what we sow, if we sow in the flesh, we reap destruction. If we sow in the spirit, we reap reward. The Bible talks a lot about putting to death the deeds of the flesh and walking according to the spirit.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
In as much as having sexual relations is a normal, very satisfying activity why would anyone not want to desire (lust for) it? Outside of those individuals addicted to it, of course.

Watching football is a normal, very satisfying activity, so why would anyone not want to desire it? Same goes for fishing and knitting.

As long as the activity is harmless and agreeable, not wanting to desire it just doesn't make sense. "I don't want to want to. . . . . " is simply an odd psychological construct.
Lust by itself treats another person as an object for the satisfaction of desire. This builds karma. Lust in the context of a loving relationship with another is something different.

Football is now known to cause long term injury to the overwhelming number of players (CTE). Something which is assumed to be harmless can in time be found to be deleterious.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I would think that Lust is to be avoided at all costs. Lust is giving over to our base animal instincts. Instincts we must arise above to be compasionate to all Humanity and creation.

In the Baha'i Writings it is written;

"..This physical world of man is subject to the power of the lusts, and sin is the consequence of this power of the lusts, for it is not subject to the laws of justice and holiness...."

So to me this says we have to find a balance with the Laws and advice given by God, if we do not find the balance, then this has also been given in the Baha'i writings.

"..But man hath perversely continued to serve his lustful appetites … With this, and with the perpetrating of vile and ignoble acts, his attention was engrossed, and he abandoned the temperance and moderation of a natural way of life. The result was the engendering of diseases both violent and diverse."
(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Selections from the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, pp. 152-153)

Finding the balance seems to be the key, not giving over to Lust.

Regards Tony
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Lust by itself treats another person as an object for the satisfaction of desire. This builds karma. Lust in the context of a loving relationship with another is something different.
Because I don't believe in karam, it's an irrelevant point.

Football is now known to cause long term injury to the overwhelming number of players (CTE). Something which is assumed to be harmless can in time be found to be deleterious.
"Watching football"

.

.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
I honestly pray to be purged of it and wish I didn't see beautiful women as objects. I don't like getting a boner and excited when I'm conversing with a female friend. It makes it more difficult to interact, is a distraction, and embarrassing.

For some reason with me, when I masturbate, fornicate, look at porn, or think about sex, I feel shame.

I'm not sure if this is from being indoctrinated or not.

At Mass today the reading was about reaping what we sow, if we sow in the flesh, we reap destruction. If we sow in the spirit, we reap reward. The Bible talks a lot about putting to death the deeds of the flesh and walking according to the spirit.

I think the shame part may come from being indoctrinated to seeing yourself that way. I'd say that it's shameful to do certain things over lust, like commit adultery, etc. But, just the feelings of lust, we shouldn't be ashamed of them. If the object of your lust is unhealthy however, that is worth examining...for example, someone who lusts for cocaine, etc. That is unhealthy and worth exploring. But, it doesn't require repenting as if our disordered thoughts are sinful. I don't see things as 'sins' so much anymore, as much as just unhealthy things in us that may need changing or purging.
 

Profound Realization

Active Member
Because I don't believe in karam, it's an irrelevant point.


"Watching football"

.

.

You're a funny human. In another thread, you preached cause and effect.

Us animals have a need for entertainment, competition even if it were to mean indirectly supporting the effects of harm. That need is able to be overcome if one so desires.
 

Profound Realization

Active Member
I honestly pray to be purged of it and wish I didn't see beautiful women as objects. I don't like getting a boner and excited when I'm conversing with a female friend. It makes it more difficult to interact, is a distraction, and embarrassing.

For some reason with me, when I masturbate, fornicate, look at porn, or think about sex, I feel shame.

I'm not sure if this is from being indoctrinated or not.

At Mass today the reading was about reaping what we sow, if we sow in the flesh, we reap destruction. If we sow in the spirit, we reap reward. The Bible talks a lot about putting to death the deeds of the flesh and walking according to the spirit.

When that burning desire arises, just keep denying it. Eventually, you will die to such.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
When that burning desire arises, just keep denying it. Eventually, you will die to such.
My response to that is, Why? Well done, it can be as meaningful and mutually rewarding as it ever gets.

I'm reminded of a line by (if memory serves) Jonathan Haidt, speaking about the sense of self-worth or virtue that we get from self-denial: if you're right-leaning, it's chastity, and if you're left-leaning it's dieting.

With about equal amounts of success all round, of course.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Lust seems to be a natural biological thing, but if it controls your life or makes you do things that hurt others, then it's governing your life, and that's always a bad thing. But, natural sexual desire for someone else, is normal to me.
How you do'n?

Wait....sorry.....for a second there I thought I was @Wirey .
(Too much maple syrup in me diet.)
 

Profound Realization

Active Member
I think the shame part may come from being indoctrinated to seeing yourself that way. I'd say that it's shameful to do certain things over lust, like commit adultery, etc. But, just the feelings of lust, we shouldn't be ashamed of them. If the object of your lust is unhealthy however, that is worth examining...for example, someone who lusts for cocaine, etc. That is unhealthy and worth exploring. But, it doesn't require repenting as if our disordered thoughts are sinful. I don't see things as 'sins' so much anymore, as much as just unhealthy things in us that may need changing or purging.

I did a personal experimentation once. But who am I? I am/was obviously a house divided against itself internally. One thing within wants me to act on lust, the other wants me to not act on lust. So, I have 2 natures conflicting within. Does that mean I have "2 self's?" One intuitively saying just do it and another intuitively saying don't do it. I tried tricking myself into thinking that if it were not wrong, that shame/guilt would go away. It didn't. So then I stopped thinking about it, stillness of mind. Still felt guilty/shame afterwards. That likely excluded any kind of potential indoctrination. I also am aware that others do not share the same guilt/shame upon indulging in lust.

Likewise, I had little control over lust. I gave in to it, and felt shame/guilt afterward. Didn't stop me from continuing to lust. Even the mentality of "I can't stop doing that, why should I?" existed.

Then I stopped. First 3 weeks I was able to develop self control gradually, turning away the desire but then had a relapse. After that relapse, I was able to go years without and the rewards were never what I would have imagined. In the process, was led to a wonderful partner who was also abstinent. Now I am able to love on a deeper level I didn't know existed. To this day, I have control over it. No words to describe. One would have to experiment/experience for themselves I suppose. I suppose the best way in words to describe the results are: freedom, no more insecurities, no more jealousy, contentment, less suffering, less judgements upon the appearance of things, more equality upon the opposite sex, a crisp/sharp/clearer/more aware frame of being/mind able to discern on an entire new level, greater precision in decision making, more energetic, happier, the feeling of being more alive. My partner and I have never argued/fought/worried/had insecurities, any jealosy, lack of trust...all the issues that seem to trouble most couples who endulge in lust. I can't be a hypocrite as well, because I was in those relationships many times in past. Of course, all of these newly acquired characteristics I had no clue existed prior. The other side is quite beautiful. But words or explanations do no justice, as opposed to living it.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
I did a personal experimentation once. But who am I? I am/was obviously a house divided against itself internally. One thing within wants me to act on lust, the other wants me to not act on lust. So, I have 2 natures conflicting within. Does that mean I have "2 self's?" One intuitively saying just do it and another intuitively saying don't do it. I tried tricking myself into thinking that if it were not wrong, that shame/guilt would go away. It didn't. So then I stopped thinking about it, stillness of mind. Still felt guilty/shame afterwards. That likely excluded any kind of potential indoctrination. I also am aware that others do not share the same guilt/shame upon indulging in lust.

Likewise, I had little control over lust. I gave in to it, and felt shame/guilt afterward. Didn't stop me from continuing to lust. Even the mentality of "I can't stop doing that, why should I?" existed.

Then I stopped. First 3 weeks I was able to develop self control gradually, turning away the desire but then had a relapse. After that relapse, I was able to go years without and the rewards were never what I would have imagined. In the process, was led to a wonderful partner who was also abstinent. Now I am able to love on a deeper level I didn't know existed. To this day, I have control over it. No words to describe. One would have to experiment/experience for themselves I suppose. I suppose the best way in words to describe the results are: freedom, no more insecurities, no more jealousy, contentment, less suffering, less judgements upon the appearance of things, more equality upon the opposite sex, a crisp/sharp/clearer/more aware frame of being/mind able to discern on an entire new level, greater precision in decision making, more energetic, happier, the feeling of being more alive. My partner and I have never argued/fought/worried/had insecurities, any jealosy, lack of trust...all the issues that seem to trouble most couples who endulge in lust. I can't be a hypocrite as well, because I was in those relationships many times in past. Of course, all of these newly acquired characteristics I had no clue existed prior. The other side is quite beautiful. But words or explanations do no justice, as opposed to living it.

Hi, I think your post is so interesting. I have read before of people who abstain from sex completely, even abstain from self pleasure, and the mental/emotional/physical benefits are amazing. I don't know if I could manage it. I'm married now, and I'd like to think that we have a healthy sexual lust for each other, it's not dirty or bad, we love one another and want to please each other. But, even so, going without for a while can bring about amazing benefits, I've read. Is this what you have experienced?
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Still felt guilty/shame afterwards.
The old Latin tag, post coitum omne animal triste est, is attributed to Galen (the greatest of ancient physicians) but he was a Greek, so it was likely someone else. It means, 'after a bonk, every animal feels sad'. (And in the full version, he adds, 'except the rooster and the human female', but let's not go there.)

So, as the agony aunt might write in her column, your condition is (basically) normal.

As for self-control, who could argue?

As for moderation in everything, who could argue there either? Including self-control, if judiciously done.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Lust is just part of being a sexual animal. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's part of being alive. It's fun, life affirming and invigorating. I reject all religions and philosophies that demonize lust since they demonize the nature of human beings and cause much harm. Shame on them.
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
Some folks praise lust* and wholly embrace it, others condemn lust and wish to purge themselves of it. Neither approach seems the wisest to me.

I think lust can be either life-affirming or life-denying -- depending on how skillfully you deal with it.

As a life-affirming emotion, it can give us the energy to live more fully and more passionately -- if at times only in regards to its object. As a life-denying emotion, it can give us the energy to ignore everything but it and what we're specifically attracted to. For instance, we might ignore someone's personality to focus only on their body.

But what do you think? How do you handle lust?



*I'm defining "lust" here as mere "sexual desire", rather than as "excessive sexual desire", although it is sometimes defined in the latter way.

I'll take a rare opportunity to agree with you on this; all things in moderation, you have to at least know and give in to some temptation, to understand why you should resist it.

To put it more succinctly

Luke 15:7 "there shall be more joy in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine righteous persons, who need no repentance."



Then again I'm not sure that someone who lists their religion as 'erotic dancing girls' represents the middle ground here! :)
 

SabahTheLoner

Master of the Art of Couch Potato Cuddles
I acknowledge lust. Lust feels good to have but it's difficult for me to express. Admittedly I grew up within a group that had this fear of lust, or else had fairly little lust. It always bothered me and at first I thought it was the feeling itself. It took me a while to learn how be comfortable with my sexuality, in all aspects. I'm still a little "shy" when it comes to such topics, probably because I'm personally a little reserved in nature, but for the most part I'm not a strong embracer or shunner of lust. It's pretty much another feeling in my point of view.
 
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