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Having explored and studied Buddhism a few years ago, I would agree. If I'm honest, I'm confused by Satanism because it seems like its followers believe that a deity created an order to the world of which they are going against. Not purposefully maybe but it seems like a Satanist would have to at least believe that an Abrahamic deity exists in order to react to it. In my world, I don't think I can logically believe that the Christian god exists but I'm choosing to reject him. It is more logical to not believe that he exists at all and is just another man made invention.
Personally, I think the Abrahamic "God" is a fairy tale. Two ways to skin the cat - logic, and ones own psycho-spiritual facility. Let's start with logic - Does any of the behavior of the OT or NT God exemplify his nature as a deity or does he either act like a petulant child or an emotionally imbalanced human? I guess my first criteria for a "god" is that he must in fact demonstrate his superiority in action, and if he is the creator then he most demonstrate his love as a father for a child. According to the bible of course he is found wanting on all of these criteria, hence logically he isn't _the_ god. He may be _a god_, but that leads to the next problem for me.
Satan never has demanded exclusivity from me, so I am aware of several other gods through direct experience. They have come to me in their own ways, and I may even work with them when it is something that is not in Satan's wheelhouse, so to speak. If all of those beings are responsive, but Jesus, Jehovah and the holy menagerie don't then it leaves their existence suspect on another level - does it not? While Satan is mentioned in the Christian bible, so is Astaroth, Baal, and Moloch and probably many others that were edited out. It is more likely to me that they are the legit gods, and the bible is pure deception written by a class of people who have a history of manipulating humanity.
Most theistic Satanists don't believe in the Abrahamic god, or if they do they believe he's just one of many many spirits in existence.Having explored and studied Buddhism a few years ago, I would agree. If I'm honest, I'm confused by Satanism because it seems like its followers believe that a deity created an order to the world of which they are going against. Not purposefully maybe but it seems like a Satanist would have to at least believe that an Abrahamic deity exists in order to react to it. In my world, I don't think I can logically believe that the Christian god exists but I'm choosing to reject him. It is more logical to not believe that he exists at all and is just another man made invention.
Agreed (although it's only part of it), especially since at least in certain kinds of tantra, Mara is the divine (or rather, the divine also includes Mara).In buddhist terms, to be a Satanist is to become Mara.
In buddhist terms, to be a Satanist is to become Mara.
In Buddhism, Mara is having your individual mind overcome by greed, hatred, and/or delusion, and is rather collectivist in nature. If you want to become collectivist greed, hatred, and/or delusion embodied, well, that's up to you. Luciferians would consider the goal to become Mara to be RHP, due to its collectivist nature..<...>
Agreed (although it's only part of it), especially since at least in certain kinds of tantra, Mara is the divine (or rather, the divine also includes Mara).
Perhaps this will help: you are an individual sentient being, possessing your own subjective mind (which is pretty much the definition of sentience.) This is what makes you divine. Individual subjective minds should be honored and shown compassion and respect. This is the LHP as I understand it and live it.It's hard to undo the Christian narrative in my mind. Not impossible but it's just difficult for me to see myself as "divine" or Satan as such. Aside from atheism, I've followed mainly a non-denominational form of Christianity, so it almost became a second skin, emotionally. The ideas that are presented in the LHP are so radically different than Christianity that I love, but also realize aren't that easy to just pick up and follow, emotionally for me. What I like about Luciferianism is it allows me the ability to illuminate my own path and Lucifer is to be seen as the pioneer of that, for want of a better word. But he's not divine and not to be exalted, IMO.
That is an um...interesting...take on the matter.In Buddhism, Mara is having your individual mind overcome by greed, hatred, and/or delusion, and is rather collectivist in nature. If you want to become collectivist greed, hatred, and/or delusion embodied, well, that's up to you. Luciferians would consider the goal to become Mara to be RHP, due to its collectivist nature..
Exactly.Agreed (although it's only part of it), especially since at least in certain kinds of tantra, Mara is the divine (or rather, the divine also includes Mara).
It's hard to undo the Christian narrative in my mind. Not impossible but it's just difficult for me to see myself as "divine" or Satan as such. Aside from atheism, I've followed mainly a non-denominational form of Christianity, so it almost became a second skin, emotionally. The ideas that are presented in the LHP are so radically different than Christianity that I love, but also realize aren't that easy to just pick up and follow, emotionally for me. What I like about Luciferianism is it allows me the ability to illuminate my own path and Lucifer is to be seen as the pioneer of that, for want of a better word. But he's not divine and not to be exalted, IMO.
I have to correct myself, what I had in mind is normally called Maya - but Mara is part of that so that doesn't change my point.Agreed (although it's only part of it), especially since at least in certain kinds of tantra, Mara is the divine (or rather, the divine also includes Mara).
I find the western idea of bifurcating physical from spiritual weird to be honest. I've just never grepped reality like that. Physical laws govern physical things, for that's how we have categorized our observations of physical things. It's all based on how things behave, not what they actually ARE. It is a fact that we, as a species, have no idea what ANYTHING actually is. The idea of 'spiritual' is a blindfolded straw-grasp to explain an element of reality that may be nothing close to the reality of that reality.I guess the question is do you feel the divine is separate from nature, or not? Personally, I am aware of the connections between the things and feel that they are different aspects of a compound and complex organism - the known and unknown universe. That's to say that things may exist in a more subjective spiritual realm, or a more finite physical realm but they exist in the same reality regardless. The divine is a pretty loaded term as well, and perhaps it escaped me how many things people can infer into the meaning of that word. The Christian use of the term doesn't exist to me, aka the divine is separate reality that is presumably superior to the material world. Therefore, being is the highest order of existence whether it is on this level or the level of pure consciousness.
I find the western idea of bifurcating physical from spiritual weird to be honest. I've just never grepped reality like that. Physical laws govern physical things, for that's how we have categorized our observations of physical things. It's all based on how things behave, not what they actually ARE. It is a fact that we, as a species, have no idea what ANYTHING actually is. The idea of 'spiritual' is a blindfolded straw-grasp to explain an element of reality that may be nothing close to the reality of that reality.
You dig?
The divine is simply exerting control over the unknown beast and harnessing it's power.
I find the western idea of bifurcating physical from spiritual weird to be honest. I've just never grepped reality like that. Physical laws govern physical things, for that's how we have categorized our observations of physical things. It's all based on how things behave, not what they actually ARE. It is a fact that we, as a species, have no idea what ANYTHING actually is. The idea of 'spiritual' is a blindfolded straw-grasp to explain an element of reality that may be nothing close to the reality of that reality.
You dig?
The divine is simply exerting control over the unknown beast and harnessing it's power.
Agreed (although it's only part of it), especially since at least in certain kinds of tantra, Mara is the divine (or rather, the divine also includes Mara).
Actually, I could go along with this in that sentience is also inherently vulnerable to delusion (mistaking the subjective for the objective.)I have to correct myself, what I had in mind is normally called Maya - but Mara is part of that so that doesn't change my point.
The all, the everything, the reality. That which we apprehend dimly.What unknown beast?
You just haven't met the right man, apparently.Your explanation makes a lot of sense to me, MindMaster. I never viewed divinity as merely beyond the physical, I like that. My ideas have been rigidly shaped from Christianity and I'm trying to get past those. So yea, in that context, humans could very well be....divine. I liken divinity to worship, and I don't expect anyone to worship me, unless they want to.
The all, the everything, the reality. That which we apprehend dimly.
My Luciferian order is quite friendly with an Atheistic Satanic order, and there are members of my Luciferian order who are also members of the Atheistic Satanic order. Carl Jung and Joseph Campbell are important to both orders. While our Luciferian order may seem too new-agey for some of the Satanists, and their Satanic order may seem to be a bit obsessed and limited by the horned god archetype to us, we generally find we have a lot in common.This. However, a simply dichotomy, as so often, doesn't include all cases. Most Satanists I can think of, including myself, would be somewhere between those two versions, but much closer to the theistic one in practice and goals, even if many of them are atheists or agnostics and see deities etc. as mere projections of their psyche.
What many here seem to actually distinguish between if they differentiate between Luciferianism and Satanism is Luciferianism and what you describe as atheistic Satanism.