Luciferianism vs. Satanism

[Deidre]

I posted this on another forum, but thought I'd ask it here, as well.

I'm thinking that I've misunderstood the differences between Luciferianism and Satanism.

From what I've been reading, it sounds like Satanism centers around the ''character'' of Satan while Luciferianism centers around Lucifer being considered ''the light bearer,'' and the path to enlightenment. But, Satanism as well, is a path to enlightenment, yes?

I'm reading a book by Lucian Black on Luciferianism, and realize that the core concepts are different than Satanism, yet I thought they were one and the same.

Can you explain how these paths differ? I'm really drawn to Luciferianism, in a very natural way. For the first time in a long time, I feel very liberated and a sense of inner peace, and like this path just ''speaks'' to me. But, there are also facets of Satanism that I find intriguing, as well. But, then I read about LaVey's branding of Satanism and I feel confused.

 

[VioletVortex]

Satanists in general place more emphasis on the carnal and the subjective Self. Many will dedicate a lot of energy into self-indulgence, though mostly with regard to the impending consequences. Then again, most legitimate Satanists have deeper spiritual cares as well, and they often intertwine spiritualism with materialism. Also, some Satanists focus more on the perceived powers of social transgression.

Luciferianism is similar, with high importance being placed on the Self, but most Luciferians acknowledge some form of faulty between the carnal and spiritual aspects of the psyche. Luciferians as a whole are typically more interested in LHP outreach and the improvement of society as a whole.

 

[crossfire]

• Luciferians generally use a broader range of archetypes than Satanists.
• In Luciferianism, an emphasis is placed on:
  • building intellect and understanding, especially about your subjective mind (illumination,)
  • liberating yourself of your psychological hang-ups and herd-thinking (liberation,)
  • and replacing unskillful habits with skillful habits (apotheosis.)
• Since Lucifer bows to no one, worship is seen as RHP by LHP Luciferians, making the theist/atheist dichotomy moot
• Luciferians realize one can become enslaved by both carnal aspects and collectivist aspects, and search for liberating intelligent harmony
• The difference between antinomianism and heterodoxy is acknowledged in Luciferianism
• Luciferianism places an emphasis on building discernment

 

[Mindmaster]

I posted this on another forum, but thought I'd ask it here, as well.

I'm thinking that I've misunderstood the differences between Luciferianism and Satanism.

From what I've been reading, it sounds like Satanism centers around the ''character'' of Satan while Luciferianism centers around Lucifer being considered ''the light bearer,'' and the path to enlightenment. But, Satanism as well, is a path to enlightenment, yes?

I'm reading a book by Lucian Black on Luciferianism, and realize that the core concepts are different than Satanism, yet I thought they were one and the same.

Can you explain how these paths differ? I'm really drawn to Luciferianism, in a very natural way. For the first time in a long time, I feel very liberated and a sense of inner peace, and like this path just ''speaks'' to me. But, there are also facets of Satanism that I find intriguing, as well. But, then I read about LaVey's branding of Satanism and I feel confused.

Satanism (Theistic) = The focus is the relationship between Satan, demons, and maybe even other pagan "dark" gods. Extremely varied practices, but ritual magic and theurgic magic are common. Does not necessarily need to blend occult traditions because energy/divine work is the focus, but individuals roll their own path. Generally, they will see Satan=Lucifer are pseudonyms. No societal focus, because it a personal path - your goals are the only ones that matters. They have absolutely nothing to do with atheistic Satanists, besides sharing part of the name. Generally, they do not separate themselves from the divine or believe in "tiered" selves...

Satanism (Atheistic) = Focused on carnality, materialism, skepticism, and magic is a psychodrama - not real. Satan is only a symbol, not a guy. LaVey and the Church of Satan believe they invented Satanism, despite the fact that history refutes that claim. Not so much a path as a do nothing, as it basically worships the natural state of man without having to do anything to improve. Some people like this, but I just feel it is too "easy", YMMV. Borrows a lot of philosophy from Ayn Rand, Nietzsche, and Ragnar Redbeard - I find no use in it, but someone might. Spiritual concepts are imaginary, and useless to them...

 

[EverChanging]

• Luciferians generally use a broader range of archetypes than Satanists.
• In Luciferianism, an emphasis is placed on:
  • building intellect and understanding, especially about your subjective mind (illumination,)
  • liberating yourself of your psychological hang-ups and herd-thinking (liberation,)
  • and replacing unskillful habits with skillful habits (apotheosis.)
• Since Lucifer bows to no one, worship is seen as RHP by LHP Luciferians, making the theist/atheist dichotomy moot
• Luciferians realize one can become enslaved by both carnal aspects and collectivist aspects, and search for liberating intelligent harmony
• The difference between antinomianism and heterodoxy is acknowledged in Luciferianism
• Luciferianism places an emphasis on building discernment

What habits are considered skillful and unskillful in Luciferianism? What do you mean by heterodoxy?

 

[crossfire]

What habits are considered skillful and unskillful in Luciferianism?

You use your discernment in deciding what is skillful and what is unskillful

What do you mean by heterodoxy?

See this one-on-one debate between Kapalika and me:
Kapalika vs Crossfire, Heterodoxy and Antinomianism in the Left Hand Path

 

[Deidre]

Satanists in general place more emphasis on the carnal and the subjective Self. Many will dedicate a lot of energy into self-indulgence, though mostly with regard to the impending consequences. Then again, most legitimate Satanists have deeper spiritual cares as well, and they often intertwine spiritualism with materialism. Also, some Satanists focus more on the perceived powers of social transgression.

Luciferianism is similar, with high importance being placed on the Self, but most Luciferians acknowledge some form of faulty between the carnal and spiritual aspects of the psyche. Luciferians as a whole are typically more interested in LHP outreach and the improvement of society as a whole.

Thanks

Luciferianism seems to naturally resonate with me. I've decided that I don't need to immerse myself in one set path, but this one definitely has most of the qualities I'm seeking to apply into my life. Many religions, like Christianity, cause one to feel like they have to conform to a certain way to behave, think, act. Not that there is anything inherently wrong with all forms of conformity, but it can extinguish the individual, and Christianity seeks to diminish self, as if it's sinful to want a good life..in THIS life. Everything is focused on preparing for an after life, and even if there is an after life, this life shouldn't diminish in relevance. Luciferianism seems to take the approach that seeking one's best self is always a good thing, and by that, it isn't always following what we desire. We may have to forego certain desires in order to become enlightened.

 

[Deidre]

• Luciferians generally use a broader range of archetypes than Satanists.
• In Luciferianism, an emphasis is placed on:
  • building intellect and understanding, especially about your subjective mind (illumination,)
  • liberating yourself of your psychological hang-ups and herd-thinking (liberation,)
  • and replacing unskillful habits with skillful habits (apotheosis.)
• Since Lucifer bows to no one, worship is seen as RHP by LHP Luciferians, making the theist/atheist dichotomy moot
• Luciferians realize one can become enslaved by both carnal aspects and collectivist aspects, and search for liberating intelligent harmony
• The difference between antinomianism and heterodoxy is acknowledged in Luciferianism
• Luciferianism places an emphasis on building discernment

Ah, thank you cross fire, for this. So incredibly helpful! I won't be worshiping Lucifer, and what I've been reading is that Luciferianism isn't about looking to Lucifer as a deity, but one can admire or revere him. I can see that. I need to learn more about ''heterodoxy.''

 

[Liu]

Satanism (Theistic) = The focus is the relationship between Satan, demons, and maybe even other pagan "dark" gods. Extremely varied practices, but ritual magic and theurgic magic are common. Does not necessarily need to blend occult traditions because energy/divine work is the focus, but individuals roll their own path. Generally, they will see Satan=Lucifer are pseudonyms. No societal focus, because it a personal path - your goals are the only ones that matters. They have absolutely nothing to do with atheistic Satanists, besides sharing part of the name. Generally, they do not separate themselves from the divine or believe in "tiered" selves...

Satanism (Atheistic) = Focused on carnality, materialism, skepticism, and magic is a psychodrama - not real. Satan is only a symbol, not a guy. LaVey and the Church of Satan believe they invented Satanism, despite the fact that history refutes that claim. Not so much a path as a do nothing, as it basically worships the natural state of man without having to do anything to improve. Some people like this, but I just feel it is too "easy", YMMV. Borrows a lot of philosophy from Ayn Rand, Nietzsche, and Ragnar Redbeard - I find no use in it, but someone might. Spiritual concepts are imaginary, and useless to them...

This. However, a simply dichotomy, as so often, doesn't include all cases. Most Satanists I can think of, including myself, would be somewhere between those two versions, but much closer to the theistic one in practice and goals, even if many of them are atheists or agnostics and see deities etc. as mere projections of their psyche.

What many here seem to actually distinguish between if they differentiate between Luciferianism and Satanism is Luciferianism and what you describe as atheistic Satanism.

 

[Deidre]

I'm not following atheistic Satanism. I'm more attracted to Luciferianism.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I posted this on another forum, but thought I'd ask it here, as well.

I'm thinking that I've misunderstood the differences between Luciferianism and Satanism.

From what I've been reading, it sounds like Satanism centers around the ''character'' of Satan while Luciferianism centers around Lucifer being considered ''the light bearer,'' and the path to enlightenment. But, Satanism as well, is a path to enlightenment, yes?

I'm reading a book by Lucian Black on Luciferianism, and realize that the core concepts are different than Satanism, yet I thought they were one and the same.

Can you explain how these paths differ? I'm really drawn to Luciferianism, in a very natural way. For the first time in a long time, I feel very liberated and a sense of inner peace, and like this path just ''speaks'' to me. But, there are also facets of Satanism that I find intriguing, as well. But, then I read about LaVey's branding of Satanism and I feel confused.

There is no correct answer, as there is no canonical dogma in either case. The LaVeyists have theirs I guess, but many or most of us don't put a ton of weight on that.

Luciferians are even worse, I've literally never met two that espouse the same views.

In general, Satanists tend to be more straight forward and accepting of things south of the PC line, while Lucy's tend to be more touchy feely and easily offended. Luciferians are also far more likely to hold any number of new age beliefs in conjunction with their thing than are Satanists.

Really, they share ground in that they aren't religions persay but mental abstractions that some can coherently put to use while others...less so.

 

[Mindmaster]

This. However, a simply dichotomy, as so often, doesn't include all cases. Most Satanists I can think of, including myself, would be somewhere between those two versions, but much closer to the theistic one in practice and goals, even if many of them are atheists or agnostics and see deities etc. as mere projections of their psyche.

What many here seem to actually distinguish between if they differentiate between Luciferianism and Satanism is Luciferianism and what you describe as atheistic Satanism.

it's hard to address "all cases", so I don't try... I try to address a majority, and leave it at that. These paths are personal and I have always explained that - take what you need, leave the rest. Largely the difference between them, in my view, is their goals so I focus on that.

I actually have a hard time figuring out what Luciferians are at all, so I didn't comment on them. Some seem to be borrowing from Thelema and injecting LHP spin, others are a complete occult bric-a-brac. I feel that it really is impossible to define what they are in a meaningful way though you may be able to have individuals define themselves. So, in this case, I left it to the people who call themselves that and called it a day.

 

[Mindmaster]

Ah, thank you cross fire, for this. So incredibly helpful! I won't be worshiping Lucifer, and what I've been reading is that Luciferianism isn't about looking to Lucifer as a deity, but one can admire or revere him. I can see that. I need to learn more about ''heterodoxy.''

To be clear, even LHP theistics do not typically worship in the way of RHP religions. It is generally recognition or admiration that drives devotional practices, not fear. Satan and his demons aren't coming to get me if I take a week, or the rest of my life off. In a way, I resent the mainstream religions because they inject fear and misery into a practice which should be about mutual appreciation and spoil the soup for anyone else. Many simply think that we would be like other religions just swap our deity of choice, but it is much more complex than that. We probably have a lot more in common with a Buddhist monk, and how they view Buddha. Our practices differing mainly because Satan is a different energy, and by embodying it we are motivated toward achievement, freedom, logic, art, expression, and similar rather than living a cloistered simple life. That "freedom" component is the important part of the Theistic LHP that keeps it off the RHP, because without it it wouldn't be.

 

[crossfire]

To be clear, even LHP theistics do not typically worship in the way of RHP religions. It is generally recognition or admiration that drives devotional practices, not fear. Satan and his demons aren't coming to get me if I take a week, or the rest of my life off. In a way, I resent the mainstream religions because they inject fear and misery into a practice which should be about mutual appreciation and spoil the soup for anyone else. Many simply think that we would be like other religions just swap our deity of choice, but it is much more complex than that. We probably have a lot more in common with a Buddhist monk, and how they view Buddha. Our practices differing mainly because Satan is a different energy, and by embodying it we are motivated toward achievement, freedom, logic, art, expression, and similar rather than living a cloistered simple life. That "freedom" component is the important part of the Theistic LHP that keeps it off the RHP, because without it it wouldn't be.

Yeah, I would say that the Luciferian energy is closer to Buddha energy than Satan energy.

 

[Mindmaster]

There is no correct answer, as there is no canonical dogma in either case. The LaVeyists have theirs I guess, but many or most of us don't put a ton of weight on that.

Luciferians are even worse, I've literally never met two that espouse the same views.

In general, Satanists tend to be more straight forward and accepting of things south of the PC line, while Lucy's tend to be more touchy feely and easily offended. Luciferians are also far more likely to hold any number of new age beliefs in conjunction with their thing than are Satanists.

Really, they share ground in that they aren't religions persay but mental abstractions that some can coherently put to use while others...less so.

I tend to echo your sentiments RE: Luciferians, it's hard to tell what you are dealing with without drilling down each one. In most cases, (sans @crossfire, who is happy to debate any point and not perceive it as enmity) you will know they are Luciferian not by whether they told you that, but rather the extreme emotional outburst incoming.

My theory is Luciferians are mostly millennials, so they have their worldviews baked into the path. You either dig that, or don't.

 

[crossfire]

I tend to echo your sentiments RE: Luciferians, it's hard to tell what you are dealing with without drilling down each one. In most cases, (sans @crossfire, who is happy to debate any point and not perceive it as enmity) you will know they are Luciferian not by whether they told you that, but rather the extreme emotional outburst incoming.

My theory is Luciferians are mostly millennials, so they have their worldviews baked into the path. You either dig that, or don't.

I agree that I haven't seen the emphasis on equanimity in Luciferianism that it has in Buddhism.

 

[Deidre]

Yeah, I would say that the Luciferian energy is closer to Buddha energy than Satan energy.

Having explored and studied Buddhism a few years ago, I would agree. If I'm honest, I'm confused by Satanism because it seems like its followers believe that a deity created an order to the world of which they are going against. Not purposefully maybe but it seems like a Satanist would have to at least believe that an Abrahamic deity exists in order to react to it. In my world, I don't think I can logically believe that the Christian god exists but I'm choosing to reject him. It is more logical to not believe that he exists at all and is just another man made invention.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

you will know they are Luciferian not by whether they told you that, but rather the extreme emotional outburst incoming.

You know what man, I have been doing this(dealing with other 'occult' sorts) for over 25 years now. I'm a bit of a geek so I have been taking it to the net almost as long, back to when it was all on irc and aol. Yes I'm old, and I suspect you have a similar background. In that time I've hit up most of the boards to have existed with traffic, and even run a couple. I've been doing this as long as ANYONE.

This is of course just context to lend to my wholehearted and almost exceptionless agreeance with THAT.

My theory is Luciferians are mostly millennials, so they have their worldviews baked into the path. You either dig that, or don't.

They tend to be people with ultralib views, and people with ultralib views tend to be young (naive) people.

You don't tend to meet many luciferians over 40.

 

[crossfire]

Having explored and studied Buddhism a few years ago, I would agree. If I'm honest, I'm confused by Satanism because it seems like its followers believe that a deity created an order to the world of which they are going against. Not purposefully maybe but it seems like a Satanist would have to at least believe that an Abrahamic deity exists in order to react to it. In my world, I don't think I can logically believe that the Christian god exists but I'm choosing to reject him. It is more logical to not believe that he exists at all and is just another man made invention.

To put it into Buddhist terms: Buddhists seek to resist Mara. Whether Satanists wish to resist Mara or something else is another matter entirely.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

To put it into Buddhist terms: Buddhists seek to resist Mara. Whether Satanists wish to resist Mara or something else is another matter entirely.

In buddhist terms, to be a Satanist is to become Mara.