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Luciferian attitudes toward passions

EverChanging

Well-Known Member
I know Satanism encourages indulgence, but what is the Luciferian attitude toward passions? Does it encourage moderation?
 

SabahTheLoner

Master of the Art of Couch Potato Cuddles
From what I understand, the Luciferian questions and challenges their own lifestyle in order to gain insight on it, and determine based on what they see wether or not they should continue to pursue an aspect of that lifestyle. Indulging in desire, although not seen as "bad", should be done cautiously and for the purpose to improve based on the results. The difference between that and a Satanist's perspective is that most Satanists don't question their indulgences until they are harmed by it, and they indulge because it improves the ego. Neither encourages compulsion.
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
From what I understand, the Luciferian questions and challenges their own lifestyle in order to gain insight on it, and determine based on what they see wether or not they should continue to pursue an aspect of that lifestyle. Indulging in desire, although not seen as "bad", should be done cautiously and for the purpose to improve based on the results. The difference between that and a Satanist's perspective is that most Satanists don't question their indulgences until they are harmed by it, and they indulge because it improves the ego. Neither encourages compulsion.
I'm not sure whether this difference can actually be found that commonly between people calling themselves Satanists and people calling themselves Luciferians. Seems rather like a matter of personality to me. That "challenge one's lifestyle"-bit much more sounds like the rhetorics of certain Satanists, and not what I heard from any typical Luciferian.

I consider myself rather a Satanist than a Luciferian since the latter is often associated with certain morals and values that I wouldn't subscribe to religiously (while still following/sharing them mostly as a matter of fact).

But besides that, I find the distinction rather useless to me.

Some Satanists and Luciferians don't question they indulgences, some do, and some actively search for them to analyze them to evaluate whether they are of worth to them or not. Most do all three of these once in a while.

"and they indulge because it improves the ego". Now that you gotta explain.
I'd say indulging can (depending on context) improve the relationship one has to oneself, including both subconsciousness and ego. It might also strenghthen the ego, or weaken it, it depends.
 

SabahTheLoner

Master of the Art of Couch Potato Cuddles
"and they indulge because it improves the ego". Now that you gotta explain.
I'd say indulging can (depending on context) improve the relationship one has to oneself, including both subconsciousness and ego. It might also strenghthen the ego, or weaken it, it depends.

Most Satanists are against the Christian idea that indulgence makes you weaker, while abstinence makes you stronger. Instead of resisting their desires, they make their desires the motive to improve. When it becomes compulsive, and they see that compulsion, they will take action to not make it as such. But if they want to indulge, they will do so. Most Luciferians are naturally skeptical and question how to improve themselves. Instead of using indulgence as a way to drastically improve the ego, they use it to gain information to improve. If they see the indulgence as good for their growth, they will continue the indulgence. But both terms can be applied in multiple definitions and so, like you said, it really does depend. Based on what I read on both religious stances, however, that is what most people will observe.
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
Most Satanists are against the Christian idea that indulgence makes you weaker, while abstinence makes you stronger. Instead of resisting their desires, they make their desires the motive to improve. When it becomes compulsive, and they see that compulsion, they will take action to not make it as such. But if they want to indulge, they will do so. Most Luciferians are naturally skeptical and question how to improve themselves. Instead of using indulgence as a way to drastically improve the ego, they use it to gain information to improve. If they see the indulgence as good for their growth, they will continue the indulgence. But both terms can be applied in multiple definitions and so, like you said, it really does depend. Based on what I read on both religious stances, however, that is what most people will observe.
Well then we have read different things. I rarely read stuff by self-identified Luciferians (unless you count the strange cases like chaos-gnostics, and those who make no difference between Satanism and Luciferianism), but the notion of using indulgence in a sceptical manner and not shunning abstince as a tool of self-study and self-improvement really seems to me not like something I'd have encountered that seldomly. Actually, it seems like a common concept of Satanism to me and I'm currently wondering whether I ever saw a Luciferian explicitely mentioning it.
Seems like LaVeys writings are taken too literally here once again.

One other but related notion that is typically made about the difference and that I can't confirm either is that Luciferians would be more into knowledge whereas Satanists would be more into bodily pleasures, material wealth and so on. For me at least that's not true, and I don't have the impression it would be true in general.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Self-Indulgence is generally id-based (pleasure principle,) whereas Self-Restraint is generally superego based.

In my observations, Satanists are more likely to favor the id over the superego, and set id against superego; whereas Luciferians seek to strengthen ego/intellect as the peacemaker between id and superego. (Intellectually discerning between unprofitable self-indulgence profitable self-indulgence, profitable self-affliction, and unprofitable self-affliction.) Luciferianism is more holistically harmonizing via ego development, and Satanism is generally more adversarial--friction between id and superego.
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
The thing is, what you are writing about Luciferianism is something I would consider typical for Satanism. So I don't really see the difference.
Or maybe there are just many confused Luciferians who think themselves erroneously to be Satanists ;)
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
The thing is, what you are writing about Luciferianism is something I would consider typical for Satanism. So I don't really see the difference.
Or maybe there are just many confused Luciferians who think themselves erroneously to be Satanists ;)
I don't know who you were addressing here. Was it regarding my post about id vs superego via heterodoxy being more satanic, and id and superego reconciled via ego (intellect) (antinomianism) being more Luciferian, or 1137's post?
 

Liu

Well-Known Member
I don't know who you were addressing here. Was it regarding my post about id vs superego via heterodoxy being more satanic, and id and superego reconciled via ego (intellect) (antinomianism) being more Luciferian, or 1137's post?
Both.
I apologize for the ambiguity.

Even that term antinomianism, I think I hardly ever saw it used by a Luciferian (except for you), but by several Satanists.

Sorry that I can't give further proofs for these impressions of mine, I don't keep a tally of where I read/heard what. Just, the concepts that in this thread get attributed to Luciferians sound like things I heard/read a thousand times from LHPers even though 99% of the LHPers I encounter online don't identify as Luciferians, or if they do they also identify as Satanists and make no real difference between the terms.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Both.
I apologize for the ambiguity.

Even that term antinomianism, I think I hardly ever saw it used by a Luciferian (except for you), but by several Satanists.

Sorry that I can't give further proofs for these impressions of mine, I don't keep a tally of where I read/heard what. Just, the concepts that in this thread get attributed to Luciferians sound like things I heard/read a thousand times from LHPers even though 99% of the LHPers I encounter online don't identify as Luciferians, or if they do they also identify as Satanists and make no real difference between the terms.
I do notice much more passion-based heterodoxy among Satanists, and more intellect-based antinomianism among Luciferians, although there can be some crossover.

I'm a Luciferian who doesn't identify as a Satanist. I'm an antinomian Buddhist. :)
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
I know Satanism encourages indulgence, but what is the Luciferian attitude toward passions? Does it encourage moderation?
To specifically answer your question: Luciferianism is about intelligent discernment. This would mean examining which passions (from the id) are profitable to indulge and encourage, and which passions are unprofitable to indulge, and need to be managed. (The same could be said about profitable and unprofitable self-afflictions from the superego.) Being dedicated to indulging passions or suppressing passions without discernment does not lead to self-evolution and the rise of intelligence. Discerning between profitable and unprofitable passions and self-afflictions both builds intellect and leads towards self-evolution. This parallels the Middle Path of Buddhism.
 
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