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Lucifer?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by jewscout, Feb 28, 2005.

  1. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    Are there any "Luciferists" on this forum? And if so do your beliefs come from christian docterine?
     
  2. angel888

    angel888 Member

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    THe beliefs in Satan come from Old and New Testament. (Torah and the Bible)

    [font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Many Jews today(, NOT ALL) deny the existence of hell and Satan, yet there are many passages of Scripture in the Old Testament to support the literal existence of both hell and Satan.[/font]

    [font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Job 2:7[/font]
    [font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the top of his head.[/font]

    [font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Psalm 109:6[/font]
    [font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Appoint an evil man or [the Evil One]] to oppose him; let an accuser or [let Satan]] stand at his right hand. [/font]

    [font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Zechariah 3:1[/font]
    [font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Then he showed me Joshua ; the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD , and Satan [ accuser ] standing at his right side to accuse him. [/font]

    He is very real and Gods greatest enemy, Satan is also a great deciever and Liar, he would like us to believe he does not exist, thats part of his plan.


    Angel
     
  3. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    How can HaShem have any equal? For Satan to be his "greatest enemy" that would mean Satan is somehow on par w/ Hashem making Him not an all powerful omnipotent being.
     
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  4. angel888

    angel888 Member

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    Satan quoted God's word when he deceived Eve (Gen. 3:1) and he quoted Psalm 91 when he tried to tempt Jesus in the wilderness (Matt. 4:6). Whenever Jesus confronted demons, they were afraid of him (Luke 8:27-33), and James 2:19 says, "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."


    Satan is nowhere near to being the equal of God.

    God is omnipotent: He is all-powerful. God is omniscient: He is all-knowing. God is omnipresent: He is present everywhere.

    The devil, in sharp contrast, does not reflect these divine attributes. Satan is very powerful, more than any man, and more powerful than most angels. But he is not anywhere near to being the equal of God.

    His knowledge is limited, and he can't know all of our thoughts. And while God can be everywhere at the same time, Satan can be in only one place at one time. However, he does not work alone. He has his minions, his demon forces that do his dirty work (Ephesians 6:10-12).

    He can do nothing in the life of the Christian without God's permission.

    While God may allow demonic attacks in your life, you are still under God's divine protection. In the book of Job, for instance, we read of the angels coming to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan being among them. God said to him, "From where do you come?" (Job 1:7).

    [font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Satan answered, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it."
    [/font]​
    [font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/font]

    [font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][/font]
    [font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Angel

    [/font]
     
  5. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Why is there debating going on in the Individual Religion forum?? I think the question was directed at Luciferists....
     
  6. angel888

    angel888 Member

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    Are there any "Luciferists" on this forum? And if so do your beliefs come from christian docterine?


    Satan In The Bible

    Serpent-----------------------------Genesis 3:1-14
    Lucifer------------------------------Isaiah 14:12
    Cherub------------------------------Ezekiel 28:14
    Energized David-----------------1 Chronicles 21:1
    Afflicted Job----------------------Job 1:7-2:10
    Opposes Israel-------------------Zechariah 3:1-9
    Tempter----------------------------Matthew 4:3
    Prince Of Demons--------------Matthew 12:24,Acts 10:38
    Incites False Doctrine---------1 Timothy 4:1-6
    Perverts God's Word---------- Matthew 4:4,Luke 4:10-11
    Demon Possesion-------------- Matthew 12:22-29
    The Adversary-------------------Zechariah 3:1
    Behind Judas---------------------John 13:2, 27
    Caused Ananias To Lie-------Acts 5:3
    Blinds People-------------------- 2 Corinthians 4:4
    Harm Christians-----------------1 Peter 5:8
    Leader Of Demons-------------Ephesians 6:11-12
    Works In Unsaved--------------Ephesians 2:2
    Father of the Unsaved---------John 8:44,Matthew 13:24-43,Romans 9:7-9, 1 John 3:4-10
    Does Miracles--------------------2 Thessalonians 2:9
    Liar-----------------------------------John 8:44
    Prince Of The World----------- John 12:31,14:30
    Blinds People--------------------Luke 13:16
    Fallen Angel----------------------Matthew 25:41
    Sows Tares------------------------Matthew 13:38-39
    Snatches The Word Away---Matthew 13:19
    Bound In The Millenium------Revelation 20:1-3
    Enemy------------------------------Matthew 13:39
     
  7. angel888

    angel888 Member

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    Sorry Maize but as a Christian I must comment on this topic, I will bow out now.


    Thank You.
    Angel
     
  8. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    ok back to the topic...what is Luciferism? Do we even have any on this forum??
     
  9. angel888

    angel888 Member

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    Its Satanism. !

    Sorry I had to bow out, I am curious , as a Jew who believes in God and the commandments of God why would you be concerned about this topic and also why do you come to a religious forum to discuss such topics , when their are many hard core sites on the web with people who worship Satan and his antics.??


    Just curious

    Angel
     
  10. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    angel888: Satanism is something entirely different. Please see the Satanism forum for further info, which does NOT include worshipping the Christian concept of Satan.
     
  11. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    Cause i want to know what Luciferism is from the horses mouth. i can go to some site but i'd rather learn from a practitioner of this belief system. I'm curious as to it's origins...
     
  12. angel888

    angel888 Member

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    It started from the beginning of Creation . God and Satan, Good and evil, its a choice. You serve God or Satan


    An example of a Luciferist is Hitler, who first made contact in 1909 with other occultists. later he made contact with an "ascended master" whom he identified as Lucifer or "the beast from the pit".

    He eventually became convinced he was the reincarnation of Woden (or, Woton). At some point, he discovered two German occultists who eloquently expressed his own understanding of Aryan religion and destiny: Richard Wagner and Friedrich Nietzsche. These influenced Nazi thought so heavily that the authors of _The Occult and the Third Reich_ name them as "the two prime initiators of the Third Reich",


    Angel
     
  13. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Moved to Religious Debates at the request of the thread starter....
     
  14. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    Yes it is a choice but it is not Satan trying to destroy you. If you give into your Yetzer harah, or you inclination to avoid G-dliness, that's your own fault giving into temptations around you. The satan serves as an angel to HaShem, one of the main Ministering Angel which is alluded to in Job 1:6
    He is the millstone that grinds us and forces us into situations where we can choose the path of HaShem or our own Yetzer Harah...but make no mistake The satan's powers only come from what HaShem allows him to have, no more no less
     
  15. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    thank ya Maize!:D
     
  16. angel888

    angel888 Member

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    Lucifer is Lucifer, no matter what context you put it in.

    Satanist serve the Christian Devil

    I see no difference between Satanism and Luciferism since both serve evil,and deal with the occult witchcraft, ect., etc...

    Satan/Lucifer is the angel who fell from grace, thrown out of Heaven.!!

    Angel
     
  17. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    If you see no difference between Satanism and Luciferism, maybe you should read the threads on Satanism and see if those jive with your notion of Satanism.
     
  18. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    This is of course your opinion. But opinion never necessitates fact.

    No, Satanism is humanism. Do some research.

    Of course you wouldn't see a difference. It seems that research is not your forte. Perhaps we should first define evil. Or maybe just like before, this is just another one of your opinions. And as we both know now. Opinion NEVER necessitates fact.

    Again, another opinion. This time, not solely your own but also of those that wrote the bible. But still, opinion none the less. And using the bible to prove the bible right is circular reasoning and is thus a logical fallacy.
     
  19. angel888

    angel888 Member

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    They both serve evil, they worship another God, their is no difference between Satanism and Luciferism to a Christian.

    This will just become a circular and semantic discussion.


    Angel
     
  20. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    The term Lucifer is taken from a misinterpretation of Isaiah 14:12 which that whole thing is talking about the king of Babylon.


    How have you fallen from heaven, Lucifer, the morning star? You have been cut down to earth, You who cast lots on nations.
    "Lucifer, the morning star This is Venus, which gives light as the morning star, הֵילֵל being derived from יהל, to shed light. This is the lamentation over the heavenly prince of Babylon, who will fall from heaven."

    In fact this whole section of Isaiah is talking about the Babylonian King. To say that there are two forces competing over souls smacks in the face of Monotheism, either there is One G-d or there isn't. To say that The satan has that sort of power is giving him more credit than an angel deserves...
     
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