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Lucifer & Satan: Same, different, or what?

Are Lucifer and Satan the same?


  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

Enlil

Allah's servant
This thread is for beliefs and opinions regarding Satan and Lucifer.

Same, or different...?

Ideally, a detailed belief, without being too vague, and what are the differences, etc, if you believe they are different.

I voted the same. Lucifer was one of God's Angels before she rebelled against God, whence she became known as Satan.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Lucifer is a pagan god or Latin term, satan is an angel (not a god) and a Hebrew term with different meanings. How they came to mean the same thing is lazy reads of the Bible.
I think it rather translation, into latin, that would cause any mix up. Lucifer is related to Satan, in the latin Bible.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Satan is a personification of the Judaic word ha‑satan meaning Adversary. Ha satan did not become Satan until much later when Jewish sects / tribes particularly the Essenes began referring to anyone who was not an Essene as ha satan. Still further on, the Roman Christian Church decided it was time to personify "the adversary" into Satan (complete with horns, tail, colored red, and all that jazz) and have him become the scapegoat for all evil in the Christian world.

Lucifer has nothing to do with the Abrahamic faiths, he is NOT the Satan found in the Abrahamic myths. Lucifer as a deity is not mentioned in the Christian bible, but the word 'Lucifer' is used adjectivally as a title. The biblical use of the word Lucifer is personifying the Morning Star of Phoenician/Canaan cosmology.

Lucifer the Roman-Greco deity is mentioned in Publius Ovidius Naso's "Metamorphoses", which was written in 8 B.C.E., the Roman poet Virgil mentions him as far back as 29 B.C.E. And the first mention is from Timaeus by Plato in 360 B.C.E. This Lucifer is also portrayed as a Lunar deity unlike his usual association with Venus.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
I think it rather translation, into latin, that would cause any mix up. Lucifer is related to Satan, in the latin Bible.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter1:19&version=HCSB;VULGATE

2 Peter 1:19 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
19 So we have the prophetic word strongly confirmed. You will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dismal place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

II Petri 1:19 Biblia Sacra Vulgata (VULGATE)
19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris

So, is Peter saying to pay attention to the prophetic word until Satan rises in your hearts? (I'd think not!)

 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter1:19&version=HCSB;VULGATE

2 Peter 1:19 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
19 So we have the prophetic word strongly confirmed. You will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dismal place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

II Petri 1:19 Biblia Sacra Vulgata (VULGATE)
19 et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris

So, is Peter saying to pay attention to the prophetic word until Satan rises in your hearts? (I'd think not!)
He must have been addressing the Satanists to be in 1965! Yeah, that's it!
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Same. An angel sent to give humans a message.

Most angel's messages are good news. But Satan/Lucifer is here to bring the Bad News. You screwed up. You're not ____ enough. You can't do that. You're a fraud.

The Good News is that that doesn't have to be how things are.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Seems like a sloppy translation to me. Lucifer derives "light bringer" not "morning star".
Not really, throughout ancient history the word lucifer has been used poetically for anything 'shining' brightly, and as the morning star/day star. Jerome was just being clever and using a well known poetic device, unbeknownst to him he would start a war in heaven :eek::cool::confused:
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Seems like a sloppy translation to me. Lucifer derives "light bringer" not "morning star".
Cicero lived from 106 to 43 BC
Marcus Tullius Cicero, De Natua Deorum Book 2 Chapter 20
http://oll.libertyfund.org/titles/539#lf0040_head_069

The lowest of the five wandering stars, and the one nearest the earth, is the planet of Venus, which is called Φωσϕόρος in Greek, and Lucifer in Latin, when it is preceding the sun, but Ἕσπερος when it is following it; it completes its course in a year, traversing the zodiac both latitudinally and longitudinally, as is also done by the planets above it, and on whichever side of the sun it is, it never departs more than two signs’ distance from it.

Latin:
Infima est quinque errantium terraeque proxuma stella
Veneris, quae Φωσφόρος Graece Lucifer Latine
dicitur 10
cum antegreditur solem, cum subsequitur autem Ἕσπε-
ρος; ea cursum anno conficit et latitudinem lustrans sig-
niferi orbis et longitudinem, quod idem faciunt stellae
superiores, neque umquam ab sole duorum signorum
intervallo longius discedit tum antecedens tum sub- 15
sequens.

Marcus Tullius Cicero, De Natura Deorum 2.51.1
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Venus in the morning was seen as the physical embodiment of Lucifer. The Latin is literally lucis ferre; "light bringer"
Yes, that is what the Latin translates into. Cicero points out in no uncertain terms that the Greeks called it Phosphoros as the Morning Star (preceeding the sunrise) and Hesperos as the Evening Star, (following the sun after sunset.) The Latin terms for Phosphoros and Hesperos were Lucifer and Vesper, respectively.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Same. An angel sent to give humans a message.

Most angel's messages are good news. But Satan/Lucifer is here to bring the Bad News. You screwed up. You're not ____ enough. You can't do that. You're a fraud.

The Good News is that that doesn't have to be how things are.
Although I don't agree with you that Lucifer and Satan are not the same, I think this is a nice extropolation.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
I think it rather translation, into latin, that would cause any mix up. Lucifer is related to Satan, in the latin Bible.
You're right that it's a mix up, Lucifer is related to Jesus also in the Latin Bible, but we do not call Jesus by that name.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
You're right that it's a mix up, Lucifer is related to Jesus also in the Latin Bible, but we do not call Jesus by that name.
Revelation 22:16
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to attest these things to you for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright Morning Star.”

When you see the Morning star as the light bringer, John 1 uses that imagery and symbolism in regards to Jesus.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
In the old testament its ( Lucifer )
In the new testament it's ( Satan )
Both are one and the same being.
As the fallen angell..

The english bibles or bible seem more specific in lucifer usage. Although of course, Lucifer is used in the english bible, they did not just write 'Satan', in place of. Seems clear the english biblical use is that of the fallen angel.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
This thread is for beliefs and opinions regarding Satan and Lucifer.

Same, or different...?

Ideally, a detailed belief, without being too vague, and what are the differences, etc, if you believe they are different.
Yes -they are the same.
No -They are different.

The bible can be quite confusing due to the fact that one person or being is often called by different names which describe various attributes -or which change due to a change which happens in or to a person or being.

Simon - Peter
Saul - Paul
Jacob - Israel
Abram - Abraham
The Word - I AM -Christ -Melchizedek -Son of Man, etc., etc....

Lucifer (bright star/brings light) - Satan (adversary)
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
My understanding of these beings is from RF, and of course general inference from music, so forth./aside from texts or whatever,

So, I may not have some of the assumed popular context, here.

It actually would seem that the latin usage of lucifer, is the crux, here, as to who it relates to, and how it means, so forth.

This usage may vary by english bible.
Dante's Inferno (14th C.) and Milton's Paradise Lost (17th C.) seem to be where the stories equating Lucifer with Satan became widespread, imo.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
As the fallen angell..

The english bibles or bible seem more specific in lucifer usage. Although of course, Lucifer is used in the english bible, they did not just write 'Satan', in place of. Seems clear the english biblical use is that of the fallen angel.
How do you explain 2 Peter 1:19 and Revelation 22:16 (as well as Revelation 2:28 ?)
 
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