Loved ones in hell - take 2.

[Trailblazer]

If something can be changed, why can't that change be something we would call damage if that change is negative?

You can call it damage if you want to but damage normally refers to physical things.
The soul is indestructible so it cannot be damaged although it could be harmed because what affects the mind affects the soul.

harm

1. Physical or psychological damage or injury: The storm did great harm to the crops.
2. Immoral or unjust effects: They made a mistake and meant no harm.

harmed

 

[Tiberius]

You can call it damage if you want to but damage normally refers to physical things.
The soul is indestructible so it cannot be damaged although it could be harmed because what affects the mind affects the soul.

harm

1. Physical or psychological damage or injury: The storm did great harm to the crops.
2. Immoral or unjust effects: They made a mistake and meant no harm.

harmed

Would you like to stop quibbling over wordplay and address my question now please?

 

[Trailblazer]

Would you like to stop quibbling over wordplay and address my question now please?

Can you please restate your question and I will try.
But I cannot give you a yes/no answer if there is no such answer.

 

[Tiberius]

Can you please restate your question and I will try.
But I cannot give you a yes/no answer if there is no such answer.

If someone has their soul damaged (or harmed, or whatever you want to call it, don't quibble over the words), do they have to spend eternity in heaven with a damaged soul? And how old do they have to be before their soul is able to be damaged?

 

[Trailblazer]

If someone has their soul damaged (or harmed, or whatever you want to call it, don't quibble over the words), do they have to spend eternity in heaven with a damaged soul? And how old do they have to be before their soul is able to be damaged?

I still do not like your use of the word damaged, so let's just say that the soul is affected in a negative way. That can happen as soon as you are old enough to make free choices that affect your soul.

So let's say you make bad choices during your life and you die with a soul that has not achieved what you could have achieved, so you are lacking in spiritual qualities. I do not believe you will have to spend eternity that way because your soul can progress in the spiritual world (Heaven) and you will start to progress along a new path. My point was that you will be whoever you were at the point of death, but you can progress for that point forward.

 

[Tiberius]

I still do not like your use of the word damaged, so let's just say that the soul is affected in a negative way. That can happen as soon as you are old enough to make free choices that affect your soul.

So let's say you make bad choices during your life and you die with a soul that has not achieved what you could have achieved, so you are lacking in spiritual qualities. I do not believe you will have to spend eternity that way because your soul can progress in the spiritual world (Heaven) and you will start to progress along a new path. My point was that you will be whoever you were at the point of death, but you can progress for that point forward.

So let's say that there's a person, and as a very young child, their soul was harmed (or whatever you want to call it). They live a long life, but this harm to their soul impacts them all through their life, influencing their decisions, relationships, etc. This person has to start off their eternal life in Heaven at a disadvantage due to something that wasn't even their fault?

 

[Trailblazer]

So let's say that there's a person, and as a very young child, their soul was harmed (or whatever you want to call it). They live a long life, but this harm to their soul impacts them all through their life, influencing their decisions, relationships, etc. This person has to start off their eternal life in Heaven at a disadvantage due to something that wasn't even their fault?

Yes, that person will start off with a disadvantage but this is where God steps in and recompenses that person for what they are missing through no fault of their own, so it will be like they never missed anything and they might even be better off than other people because God's grace is immense.

Such has been my plight in this life so far through no fault of my own but I have faith that this won't be forever.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329

 

[Tiberius]

Yes, that person will start off with a disadvantage but this is where God steps in and recompenses that person for what they are missing through no fault of their own, so it will be like they never missed anything and they might even be better off than other people because God's grace is immense.

Such has been my plight in this life so far through no fault of my own but I have faith that this won't be forever.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes. You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 329

How convenient for them.

Why doesn't God just give everyone what they are missing in their soul?

 

[Trailblazer]

How convenient for them.

Why doesn't God just give everyone what they are missing in their soul?

Because the whole purpose of our life in this world is so we can acquire what our soul will need in the spiritual world (Heaven). So if God gave everyone what they will need then there would be no reason for living this life.

 

[Tiberius]

Because the whole purpose of our life in this world is so we can acquire what our soul will need in the spiritual world (Heaven). So if God gave everyone what they will need then there would be no reason for living this life.

But you said that God could give us that anyway. Why doesn't he just do that?

 

[Spirit of Light]

But you said that God could give us that anyway. Why doesn't he just do that?

Humans have to awaken to the truth within heaven, if we do not awaken to it and can not understand it, we would not be able to stay in heaven, and we would fall back down to earth. (thats my understanding anyway)

 

[Tiberius]

Humans have to awaken to the truth within heaven, if we do not awaken to it and can not understand it, we would not be able to stay in heaven, and we would fall back down to earth. (thats my understanding anyway)

God could just snap his fingers and we'd have that understanding.

 

[Trailblazer]

But you said that God could give us that anyway. Why doesn't he just do that?

I told you why, because if God have us everything we will need in Heaven then there would be no reason for us to go through this life.

 

[Spirit of Light]

God could just snap his fingers and we'd have that understanding.

That would not help us as beings In the situation we are in on earth, we have to realize for our own what brings us back to heavenly realms and what will keep us here. If God just picked us back up, we would not need to be here in the first place

Earth is like a school in what is needed to be achieved to become a part of God again.

 

[Tiberius]

I told you why, because if God have us everything we will need in Heaven then there would be no reason for us to go through this life.

So what? Then why doesn't God just get rid of this life and let us go straight to the afterlife? Sounds like he's just making extra steps for no reason.

 

[Tiberius]

That would not help us as beings In the situation we are in on earth, we have to realize for our own what brings us back to heavenly realms and what will keep us here. If God just picked us back up, we would not need to be here in the first place

Earth is like a school in what is needed to be achieved to become a part of God again.

And I say to you the same thing I said to Trailblazer: Why doesn't God just do that then?

 

[Spirit of Light]

And I say to you the same thing I said to Trailblazer: Why doesn't God just do that then?

Because if you were taken to heaven with all the human attachments to this world, ego, wants, needs, and so on, how would you even exist in heaven when non of those things are there? (not that i know for sure what is in heaven).

Human beings have to earn the honor of being in heaven again. and in my understanding that can only be done by shredding our own being for ego and attachments to this world.

 

[Trailblazer]

So what? Then why doesn't God just get rid of this life and let us go straight to the afterlife? Sounds like he's just making extra steps for no reason.

I don't know, you'd have to ask God.
But I think one reason is that if we did not suffer at all on our way to Heaven, we would not appreciate Heaven.
Now tell me, would you rather not have lived this life and missed the things you like about this life?

 

[Tiberius]

Because if you were taken to heaven with all the human attachments to this world, ego, wants, needs, and so on, how would you even exist in heaven when non of those things are there? (not that i know for sure what is in heaven).

God could easily remove those things.

Human beings have to earn the honor of being in heaven again. and in my understanding that can only be done by shredding our own being for ego and attachments to this world.

No matter what test God could give us, he'd know the outcome, so he could just do it anyway.

 

[Tiberius]

I don't know, you'd have to ask God.

Do you understand how that answer comes across as a cop out?

But I think one reason is that if we did not suffer at all on our way to Heaven, we would not appreciate Heaven.

God, being God, could make it so we have the appreciation, no matter how we get there.

Now tell me, would you rather not have lived this life and missed the things you like about this life?

Do you miss all the things you didn't get because you never lived in the world of Krevath before your soul came to Earth? Of course not. Likewise, if Human souls never lived on Earth and instead went straight to Heaven, we wouldn't miss the stuff we missed out on by not living on Earth.