Love

[savagewind]

Someone asked if angels are perfect in love. I say no they are not. Why would I say such a thing?

Angels are commanded by YHVH to love. Man is commanded by YHVH to love. And they will if they are able. But angel's love and man's love comes with a qualifier. The qualifier is if. For example; I will love you if you are my child.

God's love and God's Son's love comes with NO qualifier. They are the only ones who's love comes with no qualifier. That is the difference between "love" and God's love.

We can learn how to do it too, but why? Because we are told to and that is the qualifier which is OK. But the creation will never be perfect like God and Yehoshua are perfect that way.

Someone might say Yehoshua's love also came with a qualifier in that he was sent to do not his own will but the will of Him that sent him. That is the difference between a believer and an unbeliever, perhaps? To believe his love is true is to be a true believer imo.

 

[Meshak]

Love is very different from person to person.

For Christians, we obey Jesus' teachings and commandments to show our love to God and fellow human.

 

[savagewind]

Love is very different from person to person.
[/B]

I believe God's free gift of love is the same for everyone.

For Christians, we obey Jesus' teachings and commandments to show our love to God and fellow human

"To show love" and to love are not the same imo. Love means to show it of course. But showing one's own concept of what love should be is not love.

 

[Straw Dog]

Greetings savagewind,

God's love and God's Son's love comes with NO qualifier. They are the only ones who's love comes with no qualifier. That is the difference between "love" and God's love.

We can learn how to do it too, but why? Because we are told to and that is the qualifier which is OK. But the creation will never be perfect like God and Yehoshua are perfect that way.

It's difficult for me to fathom doing something with the only qualifier being because "we are told to". I can understand under certain military or survival circumstances why a definite authority is necessary to make quick decisions, but even then I'd want to understand the reasons behind the command so I might see if they conflict with my moral concience.

There is no perfection without defect in my experience. Is there a way you could determine what you mean by "perfection" and why both God and Yehoshua deserve that exalted attribute?

Someone might say Yehoshua's love also came with a qualifier in that he was sent to do not his own will but the will of Him that sent him. That is the difference between a believer and an unbeliever, perhaps? To believe his love is true is to be a true believer imo.

I believe that love should be natural rather than forced.

 

[savagewind]

I believe that love should be natural rather than forced

Your qualifier is love must be natural, not forced.

Is there a way you could determine what you mean by "perfection" and why both God and Yehoshua deserve that exalted attribute?

It is something I learned. I have determined it by observation and many experiences. There is no way I can describe it to another.

I agree it is natural to balk at being told to do something that should be naturally from the heart. It is why the world is as it is.

Love takes a lot of practice.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It is supposed that as messengers, Angels have no will of their own.
If they are commanded to love then they love.
Some Angel hosts are destined to fight Satan.
Satan a fallen Angel himself, does not love.

In essence it all depends an what you believe about the nature and being of Angels.

 

[Willamena]

Authority commands. Where love is commanded, authority commands.

Authority is not love.

 

[savagewind]

Authority commands. Where love is commanded, authority commands.

Authority is not love.

Do you not believe the "two greatest commands"?

Luke 10:27 He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Deuteronomy 6:5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength

 

[Straw Dog]

I agree it is natural to balk at being told to do something that should be naturally from the heart. It is why the world is as it is.

Love takes a lot of practice.

I don't know. Maybe the world is the way it is because everyone is just following orders. I think this is different from learning to critically think and genuinely feel for others such that love does naturally spring without the need for authorization first. I guess I don't understand the need to justify "love" or idealize it beyond the natural context that it arises.

I do understand practice as something necessary to cultivate human nature, though. It's like tending a garden. It's best done with a gentle touch. I can't comment on your beliefs specifically yet, but I guess I have trouble understanding most mainstream notions of your God's love. It's presented like a gift, but if one politely declines then they are cast into a lake of fire forever. I mean, imagine a relative rejecting a gift at Christmas (for whatever reason) so you decide to push them into the firepit for being ungrateful. Is this still a mainstream belief?

 

[savagewind]

do you understand the cognitive dissonance I have here?

You do not have that, they do.

 

[Straw Dog]

You do not have that, they do.

I mistyped.

 

[Willamena]

Do you not believe the "two greatest commands"?

Luke 10:27 He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Deuteronomy 6:5 Love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength

The second command is obvious: its authority is unity.

The first I haven't quite wrapped my brain around (yet).

 

[Horrorble]

Does Jesus have free will?

 

[Straw Dog]

Has anyone ever read the Jefferson Bible? He removed the elements he identified as either pagan in origin or added by later authors from the four gospels and then combined them all into one collective story. The result is a very human Jesus.

I have to admit that reading this interpretation of the story struck me in a way that the mainstream ones never could. The story was more amazing because Jesus' teachings rested upon their own value, rather than needing miracles to justify them, and he stood up for his message of love and peace against persecution as a mere mortal. In the end, he gave his own life for his friends and their fellowship of peace to continue.

This version struck me as a better example of love and self-sacrifice since Jesus knew he wasn't coming back. If Jesus comes back as a god-man then he didn't really sacrifice himself because he was coming out of it with a glorified self.

 

[savagewind]

Thank you. I hope to read that book soon.

This version struck me as a better example of love and self-sacrifice since Jesus knew he wasn't coming back. If Jesus comes back as a god-man then he didn't really sacrifice himself because he was coming out of it with a glorified self.

You are a logical thinker. Good!

I believe 'Jesus' does not come back as a god-man. I never did. First I never thought about it. Then I studied with the Jehovah's Witnesses who say his return is in spirit and I believe that. But I don't believe his return in spirit is only to a few and I don't believe he was ever gone. His true spirit was gone from the consciousness of man and he has returned to the consciousness of um woman and I suppose to man too. That might have occurred many times over many centuries. I don't know. I know he has returned to me. Could I be wrong? Yup, I could be wrong. My love is not perfect.

 

[savagewind]

Does Jesus have free will?

Does YHVH have free will? 'Jesus' has the same as His Father.

 

[Straw Dog]

I believe 'Jesus' does not come back as a god-man. I never did. First I never thought about it. Then I studied with the Jehovah's Witnesses who say his return is in spirit and I believe that. But I don't believe his return in spirit is only to a few and I don't believe he was ever gone. His true spirit was gone from the consciousness of man and he has returned to the consciousness of um woman and I suppose to man too. That might have occurred many times over many centuries. I don't know. I know he has returned to me. Could I be wrong? Yup, I could be wrong. My love is not perfect.

Interesting. It makes sense that the JW would have modified earlier doctrine that seemed inconsistent. I imagine it doesn't hurt to keep inquiring into the nature of one's beliefs for further clarity either. I like the idea of 'spirit' even if it carries different connotations for me.

 

[Horrorble]

Does YHVH have free will? 'Jesus' has the same as His Father.

So if Jesus ha free will and the Angels have free will according to Christians, that means Jesus can fall like the Angels? And if he can fall like the angels, I'm still can't see the difference in perfection between Jesus and the rest of the angels.

 

[savagewind]

So if Jesus ha free will and the Angels have free will according to Christians, that means Jesus can fall like the Angels? And if he can fall like the angels, I'm still can't see the difference in perfection between Jesus and the rest of the angels.

I do not share the belief that Yehoshua can fall. He is the image of God.

 

[Horrorble]

I do not share the belief that Yehoshua can fall. He is the image of God.

Than why did satan tempt him if he knows he was created in a different way and can't fall like him and the Angels?