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Love your enemies. Really!?!

pearl

Well-Known Member
To love my neighbor as myself. Not sure I love myself.

That was always a stumbling block for me as I judged myself. Ultimately I turned it around, trying to see me as God 'sees' me. Loving those who have hurt me needs to be, I think, preceded by forgiveness. Genuine forgiveness can be difficult, and may take much time. Have to reconcile the head that says forgive, with the heart that says not so fast. I could never understand how the congregation in the church where so many were gunned down while at prayer, were so quick to forgive, a genuine love for the enemy, I envied that.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member


Love your enemies. Really!?!

When we get it, we lose it,
gods can be messy beings,
just us in bigger form,
best to let it go and love the mystery.



When I read the Scriptures, both the Old and the New Testament, I have more in common with what is going on in the time before Christ. When I read the words of Jesus, especially the Sermon on the Mount, and on the Plain, I will often feel lost. I read it, ponder it, pray about it, yet I know that I still don’t get it, or to put it in a better way, my heart is too small to absorb the living waters.

Love your enemies. Really!?! Do good, to those who abuse me, steal from me! All righty then! Now when I read about David, Saul, Moses, who were men of God….I get them. I can see myself like Moses, killing someone and burying the body in the sand. Or David, in a fit of lust, getting rid of the husband, if I had the power, so I could ‘own’ the wife…….thank God I do not have that kind of power. Or Moses, doubting God’s Word. My heart is like theirs, and they were men of God, much more so than I am, or perhaps ever will be. Or Saul, knowing better than God, what is the best thing to do.

I get Jonah, who became angry because God did not destroy thousands of men, women, and children, for his entertainment, as he watched from a safe distance, waiting for God to do what he (Jonah), would do, kill them, damn them, tortured them. Yet, God said, how can I desire the death of those who do not know their right hand, from their left? They are just like me, these people of Nineveh, I am often confused and in a fog, wandering through a life that often makes no sense to me. Reacting, not responding, and being asleep.

To love my neighbor as myself. Not sure I love myself. Yet I am commanded to do so. How does that happen? The self-love that Jesus talks about, that leads to the love of others, is not something I have seen in many Christians, let alone in myself. I pray for this kind of love, and I believe that each day grace is bringing me closer to that reality…..until then, I stumble along, in hope, and the desire to be free of myself.

Christians (well me) can be racist, abusers, adulterers, cheats, murderers, corrupt, blind to their own faults, and yet get prissy when they hear about the ‘sin’ of someone else, who does not sin in the way they do. I find it easy to get angry over people who are weak in areas that I am not, but easy on those who are like me……though one can always be a hypocrite, and pretend to be upset. Yes, we are a mess, but a mess, a chaotic mess, loved by God. Now that is the mystery.

We are loved, no matter what, everyone, without exception. When talking about being ‘lost’, we each have our own ideas about that. The more lost, as long as it is someone else, the better, for that way I can be special! Well, what if every human being is special, and loved by God the way we are or hope to be. How do we process that? How do we get our hearts to expand, to become more human, and to not fear the pain that comes with being vulnerable, the way Christ Jesus was, and still is.

I guess the answer is……we wait. We pray, we hope, and we love anyway, even if we don’t always feel it, we can at least begin to understand that the person before us, the messy, smelly, obnoxious, or the beautiful, rich intelligent, funny, human, shows us, Christ Jesus.


Really! Yes really!!

So where am I? Still trying to get it, pray about it, get up when I fall, and just live the day, and not worry about the morrow. I do believe that we are all in the palm of God’s hands, no matter what many in my faith try to tell me otherwise. Jesus is a true revelation of God’s Infinite love, and it will always be that, no matter how many walls we try to put up around this truth, or like Jonah, on some level, really want to be entertained by the death and destruction of those ‘hated’ by God. The problem is, no one is hated by God, but only loved……now what do we do with that? Still working on that, but grace works deeper and in secret, in that is our hope, the unrelenting love of God as shown us in Christ Jesus.

Well, it gives me hope for myself and in that for everyone. Get through the day, or this moment, seeking to do the most loving thing to what is before me. If that is sought, well ones inner life will slowly fall into place, because the seeking after love, is a response to graces inviatation.—Br.MD


What does it mean to love your enemies?
How does a person show love to their enemies?
Let's for say, that you have this enemy and the building your living in, is on fire.
Now do you show love to your enemy by letting them know that the building being on fire, So you let them know, by this you showed love to your enemy.

Lets for say, you have this enemy that comes at you to hurt you.
Now you pick up a big club and show them, that you love them, but if it comes to push and shove, You will push and shove back. Not backing down. Your showing them to have respect for you.
 
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crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
A bit of Buddhadharma to shed some light regarding loving your enemies:

Dhammapada 1:5
Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.
Meeting hatred with hatred only builds more hatred, which can escalate to the point that it overcomes your mind. When hatred overcomes your mind, you are defeated by it.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Yes daily practice, often beginning over after a set back.

Or as Vivekananda said: “Hold the ideal a thousand times, and if you fail a thousand times, make the attempt once more. . . . There is infinite life before the soul. Take your time and you will achieve your end.”
 
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Milton Platt

Well-Known Member


Love your enemies. Really!?!

When we get it, we lose it,
gods can be messy beings,
just us in bigger form,
best to let it go and love the mystery.



When I read the Scriptures, both the Old and the New Testament, I have more in common with what is going on in the time before Christ. When I read the words of Jesus, especially the Sermon on the Mount, and on the Plain, I will often feel lost. I read it, ponder it, pray about it, yet I know that I still don’t get it, or to put it in a better way, my heart is too small to absorb the living waters.

Love your enemies. Really!?! Do good, to those who abuse me, steal from me! All righty then! Now when I read about David, Saul, Moses, who were men of God….I get them. I can see myself like Moses, killing someone and burying the body in the sand. Or David, in a fit of lust, getting rid of the husband, if I had the power, so I could ‘own’ the wife…….thank God I do not have that kind of power. Or Moses, doubting God’s Word. My heart is like theirs, and they were men of God, much more so than I am, or perhaps ever will be. Or Saul, knowing better than God, what is the best thing to do.

I get Jonah, who became angry because God did not destroy thousands of men, women, and children, for his entertainment, as he watched from a safe distance, waiting for God to do what he (Jonah), would do, kill them, damn them, tortured them. Yet, God said, how can I desire the death of those who do not know their right hand, from their left? They are just like me, these people of Nineveh, I am often confused and in a fog, wandering through a life that often makes no sense to me. Reacting, not responding, and being asleep.

To love my neighbor as myself. Not sure I love myself. Yet I am commanded to do so. How does that happen? The self-love that Jesus talks about, that leads to the love of others, is not something I have seen in many Christians, let alone in myself. I pray for this kind of love, and I believe that each day grace is bringing me closer to that reality…..until then, I stumble along, in hope, and the desire to be free of myself.

Christians (well me) can be racist, abusers, adulterers, cheats, murderers, corrupt, blind to their own faults, and yet get prissy when they hear about the ‘sin’ of someone else, who does not sin in the way they do. I find it easy to get angry over people who are weak in areas that I am not, but easy on those who are like me……though one can always be a hypocrite, and pretend to be upset. Yes, we are a mess, but a mess, a chaotic mess, loved by God. Now that is the mystery.

We are loved, no matter what, everyone, without exception. When talking about being ‘lost’, we each have our own ideas about that. The more lost, as long as it is someone else, the better, for that way I can be special! Well, what if every human being is special, and loved by God the way we are or hope to be. How do we process that? How do we get our hearts to expand, to become more human, and to not fear the pain that comes with being vulnerable, the way Christ Jesus was, and still is.

I guess the answer is……we wait. We pray, we hope, and we love anyway, even if we don’t always feel it, we can at least begin to understand that the person before us, the messy, smelly, obnoxious, or the beautiful, rich intelligent, funny, human, shows us, Christ Jesus.


Really! Yes really!!

So where am I? Still trying to get it, pray about it, get up when I fall, and just live the day, and not worry about the morrow. I do believe that we are all in the palm of God’s hands, no matter what many in my faith try to tell me otherwise. Jesus is a true revelation of God’s Infinite love, and it will always be that, no matter how many walls we try to put up around this truth, or like Jonah, on some level, really want to be entertained by the death and destruction of those ‘hated’ by God. The problem is, no one is hated by God, but only loved……now what do we do with that? Still working on that, but grace works deeper and in secret, in that is our hope, the unrelenting love of God as shown us in Christ Jesus.

Well, it gives me hope for myself and in that for everyone. Get through the day, or this moment, seeking to do the most loving thing to what is before me. If that is sought, well ones inner life will slowly fall into place, because the seeking after love, is a response to graces inviatation.—Br.MD

Question:
Christians have fought in most wars, certainly the two world wars. Did they love the enemy as they were shooting them?
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member


Love your enemies. Really!?!

When we get it, we lose it,
gods can be messy beings,
just us in bigger form,
best to let it go and love the mystery.



When I read the Scriptures, both the Old and the New Testament, I have more in common with what is going on in the time before Christ. When I read the words of Jesus, especially the Sermon on the Mount, and on the Plain, I will often feel lost. I read it, ponder it, pray about it, yet I know that I still don’t get it, or to put it in a better way, my heart is too small to absorb the living waters.

Love your enemies. Really!?! Do good, to those who abuse me, steal from me! All righty then! Now when I read about David, Saul, Moses, who were men of God….I get them. I can see myself like Moses, killing someone and burying the body in the sand. Or David, in a fit of lust, getting rid of the husband, if I had the power, so I could ‘own’ the wife…….thank God I do not have that kind of power. Or Moses, doubting God’s Word. My heart is like theirs, and they were men of God, much more so than I am, or perhaps ever will be. Or Saul, knowing better than God, what is the best thing to do.

I get Jonah, who became angry because God did not destroy thousands of men, women, and children, for his entertainment, as he watched from a safe distance, waiting for God to do what he (Jonah), would do, kill them, damn them, tortured them. Yet, God said, how can I desire the death of those who do not know their right hand, from their left? They are just like me, these people of Nineveh, I am often confused and in a fog, wandering through a life that often makes no sense to me. Reacting, not responding, and being asleep.

To love my neighbor as myself. Not sure I love myself. Yet I am commanded to do so. How does that happen? The self-love that Jesus talks about, that leads to the love of others, is not something I have seen in many Christians, let alone in myself. I pray for this kind of love, and I believe that each day grace is bringing me closer to that reality…..until then, I stumble along, in hope, and the desire to be free of myself.

Christians (well me) can be racist, abusers, adulterers, cheats, murderers, corrupt, blind to their own faults, and yet get prissy when they hear about the ‘sin’ of someone else, who does not sin in the way they do. I find it easy to get angry over people who are weak in areas that I am not, but easy on those who are like me……though one can always be a hypocrite, and pretend to be upset. Yes, we are a mess, but a mess, a chaotic mess, loved by God. Now that is the mystery.

We are loved, no matter what, everyone, without exception. When talking about being ‘lost’, we each have our own ideas about that. The more lost, as long as it is someone else, the better, for that way I can be special! Well, what if every human being is special, and loved by God the way we are or hope to be. How do we process that? How do we get our hearts to expand, to become more human, and to not fear the pain that comes with being vulnerable, the way Christ Jesus was, and still is.

I guess the answer is……we wait. We pray, we hope, and we love anyway, even if we don’t always feel it, we can at least begin to understand that the person before us, the messy, smelly, obnoxious, or the beautiful, rich intelligent, funny, human, shows us, Christ Jesus.


Really! Yes really!!

So where am I? Still trying to get it, pray about it, get up when I fall, and just live the day, and not worry about the morrow. I do believe that we are all in the palm of God’s hands, no matter what many in my faith try to tell me otherwise. Jesus is a true revelation of God’s Infinite love, and it will always be that, no matter how many walls we try to put up around this truth, or like Jonah, on some level, really want to be entertained by the death and destruction of those ‘hated’ by God. The problem is, no one is hated by God, but only loved……now what do we do with that? Still working on that, but grace works deeper and in secret, in that is our hope, the unrelenting love of God as shown us in Christ Jesus.

Well, it gives me hope for myself and in that for everyone. Get through the day, or this moment, seeking to do the most loving thing to what is before me. If that is sought, well ones inner life will slowly fall into place, because the seeking after love, is a response to graces inviatation.—Br.MD

Thank you for openly and honestly sharing. I really appreciate hearing someone be real and not just hide in the pages of the Bible.

There is in the Old Testament, perhaps, a stronger attention to what real people are like. Jesus is after all perfect unlike any of us.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Thank you for openly and honestly sharing. I really appreciate hearing someone be real and not just hide in the pages of the Bible.

There is in the Old Testament, perhaps, a stronger attention to what real people are like. Jesus is after all perfect unlike any of us.
Amen to that.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Question:
Christians have fought in most wars, certainly the two world wars. Did they love the enemy as they were shooting them?
For sure they forgot to "turn the other cheek". So I think Christianity should start being honest
1: We have been hypocrites all these 2000 years. Writing "turn the other cheek" and in the same time we Christians fought the most war in an Un-Ghandi way.
2: One big error in the Bible is "Turn the other cheek". This (error) proves the Bible is not the Book of God; it is the Book of man with "Divine" inspiration.

If The Pope++ admits "The Church lied for 2000 years", maybe Christianity will have a chance to survive. Otherwise it must be doomed; "Truth will always Win" IMO
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
For sure they forgot to "turn the other cheek". So I think Christianity should start being honest
1: We have been hypocrites all these 2000 years. Writing "turn the other cheek" and in the same time we Christians fought the most war in an Un-Ghandi way.
2: One big error in the Bible is "Turn the other cheek". This (error) proves the Bible is not the Book of God; it is the Book of man with "Divine" inspiration.

If The Pope++ admits "The Church lied for 2000 years", maybe Christianity will have a chance to survive. Otherwise it must be doomed; "Truth will always Win" IMO


Would you care to explain exactly what it means to turn the other cheek ?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
That was always a stumbling block for me as I judged myself. Ultimately I turned it around, trying to see me as God 'sees' me. Loving those who have hurt me needs to be, I think, preceded by forgiveness. Genuine forgiveness can be difficult, and may take much time. Have to reconcile the head that says forgive, with the heart that says not so fast. I could never understand how the congregation in the church where so many were gunned down while at prayer, were so quick to forgive, a genuine love for the enemy, I envied that.

What did Jesus mean by
( love your enemies ? )

To love your enemies
Let's for say, that you live in apartment building, and one day you woke up to see the building on fire, And you have a enemy that lives in the building also.

Now do you leave your enemy to burn up in the building or do you show love towards your enemy and wake them up, to get them out of the burning building ?

Let's for say, you have an enemy that comes at you to do you harm, Now do you stand there, letting them beat on you or do you show them love by picking up a big club letting them know, you show me respect and I will show you my respect out of love for you. That I am not your walk on.

Alot of people in the churches are taught to love your enemies, that if someone comes at them, they are to stand there doing nothing, all the while the other person beats on them.

As for me, if someone comes at me to beat on me, I will definitely pick up a big club and knock them up side the head, letting them know, You have Respect for me and I will show you my Respect out of love for you, That I am not your walk on.
You correct them in the error of their way.
That's how you Love your enemies.
 
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Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
A bit of Buddhadharma to shed some light regarding loving your enemies:

Dhammapada 1:5
Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.
Meeting hatred with hatred only builds more hatred, which can escalate to the point that it overcomes your mind. When hatred overcomes your mind, you are defeated by it.

You know, that sounds alot like liberal democrats.
They are so full of hatred, that their hatred only builds to more hatred.
That it Escalate's to the point that it over comes their minds.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Would you care to explain exactly what it means to turn the other cheek ?

In the Baptist Church I have gone, I always said "I don't believe that turn the other cheek is meant to just let the other hit you". But that is how they interpreted it.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
In the Baptist Church I have gone, I always said "I don't believe that turn the other cheek is meant to just let the other hit you". But that is how they interpreted it.

'Turn the other cheek' needs to be understood within context of time and culture. It is actually non violent resistance. The same principle may be the Mahatma, Martin Luther King.

http://www.holytextures.com/turn-the-other-cheek-nonviolent-resistance-to-violence.html

Christians have fought in most wars, certainly the two world wars. Did they love the enemy as they were shooting them?

And many Christians and others have fulfilled their obligation to country as a 'conscientious objector'.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
In the Baptist Church I have gone, I always said "I don't believe that turn the other cheek is meant to just let the other hit you". But that is how they interpreted it.


That's all because they follow their Pastor's teachings and not the teachings of Christ Jesus.
This is why Christ Jesus said in
Matthew 15:7-9--
7-- Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8-- This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9-- But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

What is ment by ( turn the other cheek )

Let's for say, that someone talking to a person and that person tells the other person that they don't want to hear no more, But yet the other person keeps right on going, The other has had enough that they hit the other person, all because they kept right on going, after the other person told them to stop, that they didn't want to hear no more.
So who's at fault, the one for not stopping when ask to stop or the one that had enough that caused them to hit the other person to get them to stop.
So Now turn the other cheek so they hit you for your not stopping when ask, all because they deserved being hit, for not stopping when ask to stop.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
You know, that sounds alot like liberal democrats.
They are so full of hatred, that their hatred only builds to more hatred.
That it Escalate's to the point that it over comes their minds.
Politics is powered by hatred. Why do you think it was Satan who offered Jesus all the Kingdoms of the world? Why did Jesus refuse?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Question:
Christians have fought in most wars, certainly the two world wars. Did they love the enemy as they were shooting them?

Sure they love their enemies.

Let's for say, that someone comes to beat you, now do you stand there letting them beat on you or do you stand your ground, beating them back, showing them the error of their way, that you are not going to just stand there while they beat on you.

So out of love, you show your enemies the error of their way. by standing your ground pushing them back.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
That's all because they follow their Pastor's teachings and not the teachings of Christ Jesus.
This is why Christ Jesus said in
Matthew 15:7-9--
7-- Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8-- This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9-- But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

What is ment by ( turn the other cheek )

Let's for say, that someone talking to a person and that person tells the other person that they don't want to hear no more, But yet the other person keeps right on going, The other has had enough that they hit the other person, all because they kept right on going, after the other person told them to stop, that they didn't want to hear no more.
So who's at fault, the one for not stopping when ask to stop or the one that had enough that caused them to hit the other person to get them to stop.
So Now turn the other cheek so they hit you for your not stopping when ask, all because they deserved being hit, for not stopping when ask to stop.
Thank you for explaining. That makes more sense to me. When I irritate someone and then the other hits me then it's my own fault, and I should not complain. I agree.
Maybe better not to turn the other cheek, because then the other might start liking "hitting other people" too much, that is also not healthy for him. But I get your point.

My own explanation was:
1) turn your back to him; meaning walk away. Better to avoid people who hurt others
2) hit the other's cheek (of course only when the other is wrong in the first place)

Few month back, for the first time, I heard the expression "tongue in cheek". Maybe this is also related to these Bible verses.

I also read your next reply "to stand your ground". I agree with that. This whole picture makes much more sense than just "let the other hit you"

Maybe one exception is Jesus when He said "Father forgive them, for they do not know what they do". But that is only possible when you have no anger at all, when being hit.
 
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