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Featured Love your enemies. Really!?!

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Mark Dohle, Sep 5, 2018.

  1. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV

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    Thank you for the link. Interesting explanation about "right hand back slap". It's about a master/slave example. This makes more sense to me.

    So that means "eye for an eye" can be used from now on. Glad to hear. Makes sense.
    Or in "cheek terminology": When hit on the cheek, return the hit on the other's cheek
     
  2. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    It is difficult sometimes to love not just our enemies, but our friends, when they wound us. We will be rewarded and need to hang tough!
     
  3. Luciferi Baphomet

    Luciferi Baphomet Lucifer, is my Liberator

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    I cannot love or even like someone who became my enemy. I don't respect people who have treat me like (you know the word).
     
  4. Luciferi Baphomet

    Luciferi Baphomet Lucifer, is my Liberator

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    They aren't friends if they hurt us. Just saying.
     
  5. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    love your enemies. the greatest teaching of Jesus. show love and it will come back at you tenfold.
     
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  6. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, as such is an act of vengeance.
     
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  7. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    What your asking is, why do I think it was Satan who offered Jesus all the kingdom's of the world.
    If you had notice in all those Verse's of Matthew chapter 4, they speak of the
    Devil.
    So who is this Devil ?
    In the book of Revelation 12:9--"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him"

    So here we find that old serpent,
    called the Devil and Satan.

    Well it's pertty clear who the Devil is.( Satan)
    And why did Jesus refuse, all because Jesus kingdom is not of this world.

    How does Matthew 4:8--" Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them"

    How does this of Matthew 4:8 fit into Revelation 13 ?
     
  8. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    As a friend, I tell you humans are fallible sinners, and hurt one another. Therefore, redemption, renewal, resurrection...
     
  9. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    I would more ask the question, if they love them, why would you take up arms to go against them in the first place?
    Surely one can't make the argument that they were acting in self-defense, since no one was physically attacking them.
    Instead they went to war against each other, to defend what? Their nation.

    Seems like they love their nation, not their neighbors.
    This is contrary to Jesus' teachings.
    He said, that Christian should love their neighbor, and his apostle taught that they should love the whole association of brothers and fellow-men throughout every nation.

    Christians are not divided by national boundaries - border lines.
     
  10. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    So Christians as a whole do not practice what they preach, exactly my point.
     
  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Registered People sTabber

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    I definitely do not love my enemies, and I would much rather give the love I have to give to those close to me. Love is too precious and wonderful to waste on those who would provoke my wrath and bring me grief.
     
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  12. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    I think that would depend on how you define Christian.
    If you nail the true definition - No. Christians as a whole do practice what they preach. Individuals may not.
     
  13. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    The problem with that is that there are thousands of definitions of what a Christian is. Who gets to decide?
     
  14. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    o_O Let's hear five out of those thousands.
    Also, if it is the case that there are so many definitions for Christian, then one who makes accusations against Christians, must be specific in identifying which they are referring to.
    To put all in the same bracket would be a mistake, and an inaccurate judgment.
     
    #54 nPeace, Sep 15, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  15. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    There are dozens of denomlnations, each with a different take on the Bible and within those denominations there are endless differences of opinion on numerous things concerning the Bible. If you know of a universally accepted definition of Christianity, present it.
     
  16. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    Ah. Now you're talking.
    There are thousands of religions, not thousand of definitions for Christian.
    The true definition of Christian needs to be traced to its origin.

    (Acts 11:25, 26)
    (Acts 26:28, 29)
    (1 Peter 4:15, 16)
    Greek
    Khri·sti·a·nosʹ / Khri·sti·a·nonʹ / khris-tee-an-os' (Χριστιανός, οῦ, ὁ)
    Latin - Chri·sti·aʹnum / Chri·sti·aʹnus

    Strong's Greek: 5546. Χριστιανός (Christianos) -- a Christian
    Thayer's Greek Lexicon
    STRONGS NT 5546: Χριστιανός
    Χριστιανός (cf. Lightfoot on Philip., p. 16 note), Χριστιανου, ὁ (Χριστός), a Christian, a follower of Christ: Acts 11:26; Acts 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16. The name was first given to the worshippers of Jesus by the Gentiles, but from the second century (Justin Martyr (e. g. Apology 1, 4, p. 55 a.; dialog contra Trypho, § 35; cf. 'Teaching etc. 12, 4 [ET])) onward accepted by them as a title of honor. CL Lipsius, Ueber Ursprung u. ältesten Gebrauch des Christennamens. 4to, pp. 20, Jen. 1873. (CL Sophocles' Lexicon, under the word, 2; Farrar in Alex.'s Kitto, under the word; on the 'Titles of Believers in the N. T.' see Westcott, Epistles of St. John, p. 125f; cf. Dict. of Chris. Antiqq., under the word 'Faithful'.)

    So originally a Christian is in its most basic term, a follower of Christ.
    It involves following Jesus the Christ's (Messiah), teachings and way of life, or example.


    However, the use o the word Christian has become distorted, based on second century interpretation.

    Christian
    A Christian (/ˈkrɪstʃən, -tiən/) is a person who follows or adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. "Christian" derives from the Koine Greek word Christós (Χριστός), a translation of the Biblical Hebrew term mashiach (Biblical Hebrew: מָשִׁיחַ).

    While there are diverse interpretations of Christianity which sometimes conflict, they are united in believing that Jesus has a unique significance. The term "Christian" is also used as an adjective to describe anything associated with Christianity, or in a proverbial sense "all that is noble, and good, and Christ-like."

    According to a 2011 Pew Research Center survey, there were 2.2 billion Christians around the world in 2010, up from about 600 million in 1910.
    By 2050, the Christian population is expected to exceed 3 billion. According to a 2012 Pew Research Center survey Christianity will remain the world's largest religion in 2050, if current trends continue.

    Etymology
    The Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos), meaning "follower of Christ", comes from Χριστός (Christos), meaning "anointed one", with an adjectival ending borrowed from Latin to denote adhering to, or even belonging to, as in slave ownership. In the Greek Septuagint, christos was used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Mašíaḥ, messiah), meaning "[one who is] anointed."

    The first recorded use of the term (or its cognates in other languages) is in the New Testament, in Acts 11:26, after Barnabas brought Saul (Paul) to Antioch where they taught the disciples for about a year, the text says: "[...] the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch." The second mention of the term follows in Acts 26:28, where Herod Agrippa II replied to Paul the Apostle, "Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian." The third and final New Testament reference to the term is in 1 Peter 4:16, which exhorts believers: "Yet if [any man suffer] as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf."

    Modern usage
    Definition
    A wide range of beliefs and practices is found across the world among those who call themselves Christian. Denominations and sects disagree on a common definition of "Christianity". For example, Timothy Beal notes the disparity of beliefs among those who identify as Christians in the United States as follows:

    The true source of the original use of the word, also made mention of this deviation from true Christianity - in other words, a falling away from following the teachings and example of Jesus the Christ, but having an appearance of Christian... Thus imitation Christians - weeds which closely resemble wheat, which Jesus sowed.
    Matthew 3:12; 13:24-30; 2 Thessalonians 2:3

    For this reason, I believe it is important to identify those who are truly Christian - that is, those who are following Christ, in his teachings and way of life.
    For example, he said:
    By this all will know that you are my disciples - if you have love among yourselves. John 13:35
    So looking around us, we should be able to have an indication of which religious group is truly following Christ.
    Can you identify such a group?

    For me, there is one group I find that is united in love, teachings, and way of life, in every part of the globe.
    Interestingly, during the genocide in Rwanda, where it is said was said to be dominant Catholic, this peaceful group of Christians would rather die for each other, than take part in the slaughter.
    While on the other hand we have these reports:
    The Catholic church in Rwanda apologised on Sunday for the church’s role in the 1994 genocide, saying it regretted the actions of those who participated in the massacres.
    Pope apologises for church's role in Rwanda genocide

    During the Great Wars, true Christians refused to take up arms and fight, even though it meant imprisonment, torture and death, for refusing.
    This to me, shows true love for God and neighbor, and unity of love among fellow believers all over the world.
    Among other things...

    So Christian for me, is still what it started out as originally. Only now there are thousands of those who profess to be.
    By their fruit, you will know them.
    Matthew 7:17-20
    17 Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits you will recognize those men.
     
  17. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    Your definition doesn’t get you anywhere. Everyone who is a Christian will say they are a follower of Christ. They will all say their “fruits” show this.

    At the risk of being overly pedantic, the statement ,
    “A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit” is not entirely true. Trees produce both good and bad fruit on the same tree.
     
  18. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    A Christian is not a person that says they are a follower of Christ, in the same way that a man who says he is a woman, is not a woman, because he says it. Or a ball does not become a bat, just because someone calls it that.

    ...and if the tree produces rotten fruit, the tree is bad.
    All trees do not produce rotten fruit. The tree will only do so, if it is no good.
    Normally a tree produces good fruit.
    Fruit becomes rotted, if it is disconnected from the tree for a period - where it is not being nourished.

    A mother gives birth to a baby boy or girl. If later the boy or girl, grows up, and becomes a thief, we do not say the child was born a thief, or the mother gave birth to a thief. Do we?
     
  19. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

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    This does not answer my objection to your definition. All those who say they are Christians under your definition will say that your definition applies to them, so it still provides no way to determine who is or is not a Christian. A tree can produce both good and bad fruit at the same time. I have a small orchard, and I can attest to this. Some fruit will be deformed, or not ripen properly, or will be of lower quality for whatever reason. It's the same with people......people will do both good and bad things, no matter their religious viewpoint.

    So, given that, how can anyone determine objectively who is and who is not a Christian, beyond that person stating that he/she it one? Obviously, even Christians can't do this. There is a history of preachers., priests, etc. being very two-faced and hypocritical and failing in a most extreme way.

    The baby story is irrelevant.
     
  20. nPeace

    nPeace Veteran Member

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    I suggest you not call the trees in your orchard rotten, just because the fruit are different. Different doesn't mean rotten. ;)

    I understand your point of view.
    I do not have a problem if persons want to accept anyone who claim to be a Christian, to be such. We all have our choices to make.

    However, If I were hiring an acrobat, or juggler for my circus, and they couldn't perform, they wouldn't be joining my circus.
    Another person may not mind the imitations, but they have to decide what they want their circus to be like.

    Since you mentioned denominations or religions, then that is the way I look at it.
    The disciples were called Christians. They were known as those who followed Jesus, by what they taught, and how they lived.
    Festus could tell the difference.

    Today, I see it the same way.
    Either a religion is following Jesus, its teachings and practices, or it is not following Jesus.
    Individuals, in that religion will either practice what they preach or not, but I am not the one to judge them.
    However, as with first century Christians, there are measures pu in place, to keep the Christian congregation clean.
    1 Corinthians 5:9-13
    This way, it becomes possible for people with honest heart to find the way to God. Those who are not really honest hearted, will remain in the dark - confused. 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
     
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