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Louisiana - First State to Require the Display of Ten Commandments?

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Apparently, the bill is waiting to be signed into Louisiana law.

Aside from the obvious disagreements with public display of the ten commandments, I'm sure the requirement law is sure to raise a few brows. At first, I was a little irked, but upon reflection I'm thinking ... why not? Seriously, why not? Why not initiate a state law that requires the ten commandments to be displayed in every classroom in every state funded educational institution?

Historical documents of times past, that some still adhere to seems fair enough to me, but to be required by law? Hehe, that's the wow factor in play and it is an in the face kind of WOW!

I'm not in disagreement, anymore. We did ok for over 200 years with them being displayed, so why not?



Violates separation of church & state if it is standalone.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Defy you mother and father, steal, kill, lie, cheat on your spouses, desire what's not yours <-- honor that which is unworthy, etc .... the flip side of the 10 to be displayed.
Yeah, see, that mandate to.honor thy mother and thy father is garbage that has shielded and excused child abuse for a very long time. That commandment has got to go and replaced with a commandment that places the pressure on the parents to be worthy of respect an honor.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I often find it amusing -- and I have posted about this before on RF -- that there is actually a third version, in Exodus 34. And what's more important, it is the ONLY version that expressly calls itself "The Ten Commandments" in the text of the Bible itself (not the additions of editors). (Ex 34:28)

What is most interesting about the three lists of the Ten Commandments is that they don't all match. Two of them ( the ones @Kathryn listed) are almost identical, but the third list, on which the Bible claims God wrote "the words that were on the former tablets, which you (Moses) broke," is quite different from the other two. Please note the italics -- the implication is that the two accepted lists of Commandments must have been copied incorrectly before the tablets were broken, because God is saying that this new set repeats the words on those tablets.

But even more fascinating, this third set of Commandments bears almost no relation to the other two.

Exodus 34
1 The Lord said to Moses, w“Cut for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, xand I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke.

10 And he said, “Behold, I am making a covenant. Before all your people I will do marvels, such as have not been created in all the earth or in any nation. And all the people among whom you are shall see the work of the Lord, for it is an awesome thing that I will do with you.

11 “Observe what I command you this day. Behold, I will drive out before you the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites.
12 Take care, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land to which you go, lest it become a snare in your midst.
13 You shall tear down their altars and break their pillars and cut down their Asherim
14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),
15 lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and when they whore after their gods and sacrifice to their gods and you are invited, you eat of his sacrifice,
16 and you take of their daughters for your sons, and their daughters whore after their gods and make your sons whore after their gods.
17 “You shall not make for yourself any gods of cast metal.
18 “You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the time appointed in the month Abib, for in the month Abib you came out from Egypt.
19 All that open the womb are mine, all your male livestock, the firstborn of cow and sheep.
20 The firstborn of a donkey you shall redeem with a lamb, or if you will not redeem it you shall break its neck. All the firstborn of your sons you shall redeem. And none shall appear before me empty-handed.
21 “Six days you shall work, but on the seventh day you shall rest. In plowing time and in harvest you shall rest.
22 You shall observe the Feast of Weeks, the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year’s end.
23 Three times in the year shall all your males appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel.
24 For I will cast out nations before you and enlarge your borders; no one shall covet your land, when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year.
25 “You shall not offer the blood of my sacrifice with anything leavened, or let the sacrifice of the Feast of the Passover remain until the morning.
26 The best of the firstfruits of your ground you shall bring to the house of the Lord your God. You shall not boil a young goat in its mother’s milk.”
27 And the Lord said to Moses, “Write these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”
28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
Oh poop! I should have posted that yesterday instead of playing games. That is the set that the Hebrews kept in the Ark of the Covenant according to Exodus. The original set was broken by Moses.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Oh poop! I should have posted that yesterday instead of playing games. That is the set that the Hebrews kept in the Ark of the Covenant according to Exodus. The original set was broken by Moses.
But the point is (besides my playing fewer games than you and thus beating you to the punch), what does Exodus 34, taken in context with the two better-known sets of commandments, tell us? Exodus 34 says that God explicity promises to repeat the words on the broken tablets. If he did so, then the Commandments in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 must be incorrect -- or that God is lying and simply decides to lay down a whole new set of rules, and hopes nobody notices.

The second point, for me, is that no matter how many times I have posted on this subject, I am routinely ignored. It is almost as if Christians and Jews can't bring themselves to acknowledge the simple truth that the Bible has very blatant contradictions on a matter so very central to both faiths.

And I point out again, it is this un-acknowledged set of Commandments in Exodus 34 that is the only place in the Bible that explicitly names them so -- meaning (it seems to me) that these ought to be the real Commandments.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
But the point is (besides my playing fewer games than you and thus beating you to the punch), what does Exodus 34, taken in context with the two better-known sets of commandments, tell us? Exodus 34 says that God explicity promises to repeat the words on the broken tablets. If he did so, then the Commandments in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 must be incorrect -- or that God is lying and simply decides to lay down a whole new set of rules, and hopes nobody notices.

The second point, for me, is that no matter how many times I have posted on this subject, I am routinely ignored. It is almost as if Christians and Jews can't bring themselves to acknowledge the simple truth that the Bible has very blatant contradictions on a matter so very central to both faiths.

And I point out again, it is this un-acknowledged set of Commandments in Exodus 34 that is the only place in the Bible that explicitly names them so -- meaning (it seems to me) that these ought to be the real Commandments.
And I want to emphasize your last point. The only list that is called the "Ten Commandments" in the Bible was the one that you posted. When we look through modern Bibles and the heading of a section is "The Ten Commandments" that was not part of the original. The original does not even have punctuation or upper and lower case letters much less chapter headings. The list that you provided calls it the "ten commandments" in the Bible. The rest are added in the last few hundred years.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Apparently, the bill is waiting to be signed into Louisiana law.

Aside from the obvious disagreements with public display of the ten commandments, I'm sure the requirement law is sure to raise a few brows. At first, I was a little irked, but upon reflection I'm thinking ... why not? Seriously, why not? Why not initiate a state law that requires the ten commandments to be displayed in every classroom in every state funded educational institution?

Historical documents of times past, that some still adhere to seems fair enough to me, but to be required by law? Hehe, that's the wow factor in play and it is an in the face kind of WOW!

I'm not in disagreement, anymore. We did ok for over 200 years with them being displayed, so why not?


Have you realized yet that while you might think it is a good idea to post something meaningful to you in a public place with required attendance that in a secular society picking something related to your religion might be far more problematic than it is worth?
 

Balthazzar

Christian Evolutionist
Yup it was so much better in the past when we didn't even think about how people who were not exactly like us were denied their life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Haven't read much history of state imposed religion, have you?
That the list seems innocuous to you is only because you are only thinking about yourself and not all of the other cultures that make up this country. That it has taken us this long to recognize this is no reason to go back to it any more than reinstituting slavery or taking away the vote from women because those things were accepted in the past.
Honestly, I've always known this nation to be very much in favor of religious freedoms. From the wiccan cultures to more paganized druid types, to even Muslims and satanists. The golden dawn era is still very much a part of American culture as is other forms of occult philosophies. The issue with the ten commandments being displayed is more of an anti religious movement than anything else. This much is evident enough to understand the lack of critical thinking skills of our professed critical thinkers. But, if you really want to deny religious freedoms, then take note of the anti religious movements in process. It won't happen by displaying the 10 commandments in our schools.
 

Balthazzar

Christian Evolutionist
There are lots of ideas referenced in various religions, the point is not selecting one religion over another was why the first amendment says what it says. Many of the 10 commandments are insulting to many people, that not all of them are isn't a sufficient reason to impose non-secular material.
Impose non secular material? So, are you an anti religious type or are you one who supports religious freedom? MJ laws per state differ, as do the rulings of religious displays, apparently. It seems most appropriate to be left per state for the decisions to display or not.
 

Balthazzar

Christian Evolutionist
Yeah, see, that mandate to.honor thy mother and thy father is garbage that has shielded and excused child abuse for a very long time. That commandment has got to go and replaced with a commandment that places the pressure on the parents to be worthy of respect an honor.
That's how they should be handled anyway. So, your kids don't think they should honor their parents? Let's have a closer look at what's going on, shall we? If the kids are in danger, then maybe third party action is warranted. Then again, it may be unruly kids and community needs that warrant an honor your mother and father decree. I wonder how many parents have been jailed for neglect or irresponsible parenting? Most people don't appreciate unruly and undisciplined kids wreaking havoc in their communities. Most parents would indeed attempt to prevent that type of behavior and if not, then there is something seriously wrong with the parenting skills. Potential jail time alone is typically enough for them to teach the kids better.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Honestly, I've always known this nation to be very much in favor of religious freedoms. From the wiccan cultures to more paganized druid types, to even Muslims and satanists. The golden dawn era is still very much a part of American culture as is other forms of occult philosophies. The issue with the ten commandments being displayed is more of an anti religious movement than anything else. This much is evident enough to understand the lack of critical thinking skills of our professed critical thinkers. But, if you really want to deny religious freedoms, then take note of the anti religious movements in process. It won't happen by displaying the 10 commandments in our schools.
Yes we are serious about religious freedom, so much so that it was put into the constitution that government functions which public schools are will not support or infringe on anyone's right to their own personal freedom. Requiring the posting of any one's religious opinions can be seen as tacit support for that opinion and thus contraindicated. As you have seen if their particular version of this document is posted, then the walls would quickly fill up with all the other documents needed to maintain everyone's rights.
Further as I linked earlier, the Supreme Court has already determined in 1980 that the posting of the document serves no secular purpose and thus would count as an endorsement.
It is not anti-religion, it is maintaining the originally intended separation of church and state that makes the US a place for any and all religions.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
Impose non secular material? So, are you an anti religious type or are you one who supports religious freedom? MJ laws per state differ, as do the rulings of religious displays, apparently. It seems most appropriate to be left per state for the decisions to display or not.
Whatever MJ laws are(Google tells me they are Cannabis laws), and it is not me, it is the position of the country and the constitution that the government shall not be involved. Public displays are not to be sponsored by the government and if on public property all religions must be allowed equal access.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
That's how they should be handled anyway. So, your kids don't think they should honor their parents? Let's have a closer look at what's going on, shall we? If the kids are in danger, then maybe third party action is warranted. Then again, it may be unruly kids and community needs that warrant an honor your mother and father decree. I wonder how many parents have been jailed for neglect or irresponsible parenting? Most people don't appreciate unruly and undisciplined kids wreaking havoc in their communities. Most parents would indeed attempt to prevent that type of behavior and if not, then there is something seriously wrong with the parenting skills. Potential jail time alone is typically enough for them to teach the kids better.
That's not what I'm getting at. If a child doesn't honor their parents then there's probably and most likely something the parents are doing wrong. Blame the parents and pressure them to change instead of expecting children to honor abusive ****s.
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
That's how they should be handled anyway. So, your kids don't think they should honor their parents? Let's have a closer look at what's going on, shall we? If the kids are in danger, then maybe third party action is warranted. Then again, it may be unruly kids and community needs that warrant an honor your mother and father decree. I wonder how many parents have been jailed for neglect or irresponsible parenting? Most people don't appreciate unruly and undisciplined kids wreaking havoc in their communities. Most parents would indeed attempt to prevent that type of behavior and if not, then there is something seriously wrong with the parenting skills. Potential jail time alone is typically enough for them to teach the kids better.
Oh, so you want the schools to be responsible for enforcing these commandments that were never agreed upon as laws? Now you are way out of order in imposing your religion. Jail time for who? You are describing the dystopia that separation of church and state was designed to avoid.
We have secular laws not laws imposed by fiat from a religious source.
If you don't like it, there are several places in the world where clerics are in charge of behaviour but our constitution says that this is not one of them.
 

Balthazzar

Christian Evolutionist
Your guardians are by law your providers, it may be a good idea to try and get along with them. If you cannot, there's a problem. Speak to your counselor.
Don't murder
Don't steal
Don't falsely accuse your neighbors of a crime
Honor truth and verifiable facts. The Universe holds many mysteries one of which is our origins. Philosophy can be useful, but truth first.


Remember, divorce is costly so I wouldn't cheat on your spouse once you get married (No adultery). You may lose your insurance and/or meal ticket.
Don't make up fake, superstitious, erroneous concepts/images. This is an educational facility. Truth matters.
Don't use vain, superstitious and/or erroneous concepts and try to apply them to the universe as if they are true. Sincerity and truth are important.
You will have a rest day at the end of the week. It's for your benefit, so make good use of it.
Be happy with what you have and make the most of it. You won't get anywhere if you just **** and moan about what your neighbors has and what you don't.
 
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