Loss of Faith around the world

[Road Warrior]

Although the link provided is obviously biased due to its political agenda, many of the facts it presents are accurate. I simply disagree with some of the conclusions drawn by the blog's authors.

The State of Religion: Declining Belief in God Worldwide

The reasons for this decline are many:

What’s happening here? Because results of surveys like these show a great deal of variation based on age and geography, reasons to explain overall trends will be varied. But the results raise some interesting possibilities to consider, including something as simple as bad behavior, hypocrisy, and outlandish assertions on the part of those who claim most publicly and proudly to be religious believers. The areas that those who claim to be religious fail to shine include child abuse scandals, open LGBT discrimination and support for bullying, attacks on women’s rights, support for war, pushing for religion in science classrooms, prayer-led public meetings, denying the separation of church and state, withholding medical care in favor of prayer for children … and the list goes on.

Yes, even though it still remains very strong, there is a significant drop in the numbers of people who adhere to religion. The authors of the link seem to have us believe that people who stop believing in a major religion are becoming humanists, agnostics or atheists. Not once does the article mention the words "spirit", "spiritual" or "spirituality". For obvious reasons they don't seem willing to recognize that a person can believe in God, an Almighty or other Universal force yet not adhere to the precepts of a particular religion as shown in the breakdown

Like the other major groups, people who are unaffiliated with any particular religion (16.1%) also exhibit remarkable internal diversity. Although one-quarter of this group consists of those who describe themselves as either atheist or agnostic (1.6% and 2.4% of the adult population overall, respectively), the majority of the unaffiliated population (12.1% of the adult population overall) is made up of people who simply describe their religion as "nothing in particular."

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

Three things come to mind:
1) If religions want to attract and retain more members, what do they do about it? IMO, one thing is to learn what turns people off about religion. The list quoted above would be a good starting point.

2) Can we recognize that there are many paths to God? Must we believe there is "only one right religion" or can we recognize that God is unlimited and, therefore, there are many paths to God? Something in between?

3) Is spirituality an important part of our humanity? If so, what can be done to increase it while also recognizing that the advances in society and science, the scope of human knowledge, have, in some ways, outpaced ancient religious customs to the point people are ignoring all of a religion simply because some parts of it are dated?

 

[Storm]

Initial response before reading the article:

As a devout believer, I actually view this as a good thing. I don't care about popularity, and I don't believe in a dichotomy of saved and damned. Religion is my passion, but I'd rather it were reserved for those who feel the same devotion as I do, rather than merely mouthing along when they don't really care at best.

1) If religions want to attract and retain more members, what do they do about it? IMO, one thing is to learn what turns people off about religion. The list quoted above would be a good starting point.

Walking the talk would be a good start.

That said, I think the drive to get and keep members should be more about spreading ideals than simply a cause in and of itself.

2) Can we recognize that there are many paths to God? Must we believe there is "only one right religion" or can we recognize that God is unlimited and, therefore, there are many paths to God? Something in between?

Not only do I believe this myself, it's a foundational tenet of my faith. It's also built into Hinduism, neopaganism, and probably others that I'm either forgetting or unaware of.

3) Is spirituality an important part of our humanity?

Absolutely, but it depends on one's definition of spirituality.

Mine is not equivalent to 'religiosity,' but a sense of an individual's non-physical well being. It's difficult to articulate, but a healthy spirituality, in my book, has nothing to do with one's stance on God.

If so, what can be done to increase it while also recognizing that the advances in society and science, the scope of human knowledge, have, in some ways, outpaced ancient religious customs to the point people are ignoring all of a religion simply because some parts of it are dated?

This follow up leads me to think your understanding differs. Would you kindly elaborate?

In the meantime, I don't think we'll ever outgrow the fundamentals of religion as a whole: the needs for ritual, story, community, and guidance in our quest to understand our place in the world.

The details of theology and morality will change - that much is inevitable - but those needs are too deeply embedded in the human animal. If they are ever outgrown, the resulting people will not be anything modern folk would recognize as "human."

 

[Road Warrior]

Thank you for your detailed response. Rather than go over point by point, especially where we are in agreement, let me only pick two areas to respond in the name of brevity:

Walking the talk would be a good start.

That said, I think the drive to get and keep members should be more about spreading ideals than simply a cause in and of itself.

I completely agree with the concept, but do not feel all religious organizations will do the same. Some, especially those of a "fundamentalist" mentality strongly believe in "our way or the highway!" Like dinosaurs or other species which failed to adapt, I feel those types of religious organizations will wither and die for lack of members if better, more enlightened organizations exist.

This follow up leads me to think your understanding differs. Would you kindly elaborate?

Not quite sure what you mean here, but if you are asking about my comment on "dated" parts of religions it would be specifically directed at diety rules, customs which are no longer necessary or common such as slavery and the subservience of women to men and any other restrictions which are not necessary in a modern culture.

 

[Storm]

Thank you for your detailed response. Rather than go over point by point, especially where we are in agreement, let me only pick two areas to respond in the name of brevity:I completely agree with the concept, but do not feel all religious organizations will do the same. Some, especially those of a "fundamentalist" mentality strongly believe in "our way or the highway!" Like dinosaurs or other species which failed to adapt, I feel those types of religious organizations will wither and die for lack of members if better, more enlightened organizations exist.

Oh, absolutely agreed! Furthermore, a preemptive GOOD RIDDANCE to them.

Not quite sure what you mean here, but if you are asking about my comment on "dated" parts of religions it would be specifically directed at diety rules, customs which are no longer necessary or common such as slavery and the subservience of women to men and any other restrictions which are not necessary in a modern culture.

Actually, I was asking for your understanding of what 'spirituality' means.

I agree entire that all of the doctrines you mention are, as you say, dated. Hopefully, they're soon to be abandoned.

 

[Road Warrior]

Actually, I was asking for your understanding of what 'spirituality' means.

A component of our existence which, although we feel it, cannot quite prove it. One common philosophical thought, and the title of a recent thread, was "How do you know you exist?"

Common questions to throughout human history are "Where did we come from?" and "Where are we going?" This latter is specifically directed along the lines of "after death". Are we simply meat computers that cease to exist when powered down or does something of us continue to exist beyond death? I believe it does and that is what I believe is spirituality.

All religions are, IMO, a tool for greater understanding of questions such as these. While I seriously doubt any human can understand God, I think we can glimmer parts of it just like the story of the Five Blind Men and the Elephant. After all, how could a mere mortal understand an entity larger and more powerful than the Universe itself? It's like an amoeba trying to understand the Solar System? What we can do is seek a greater understanding of our part in the larger scheme of things. That is a spiritual journey.

 

[F0uad]

I don't belief that Religion is decreasing in the whole world its actually increasing in the east the decrease is mostly in the West yet there is one religion out there that even increases in the west.

 

[Penumbra]

A study I like to reference is one where researchers studied the willingness of people to buy jam.

On one setup, they had 24 types of jam for sale.

On another setup, with all else being the same, they had only 6 types of jam for sale.

The results were that more people visited the 24 jam setup, but far more people purchased jam from the 6 jam setup. Way more sales and revenue.

.....

I think in a similar way, globalization can decrease willingness to take action on certain ideas. To buy jam, a person has to basically say, "I want this one, not that one." But if there are 24 varieties, it's overwhelming, and none of them seem unique or valuable. Or they all look good, and there's not enough differentiation or impulse to choose.

Likewise, if a person can go on the internet and find thousands of pages of information, and translated versions of all texts, then it's information overload. If people can fly on planes around the world and intermingle and meet, then it's information overload. Prior to that, people were pretty much just the same religion as whatever their environment was. But if one group believes X, and another group believes Y, and a member from group X reads about Y, and observes that there doesn't seem to be any more evidence for X than Y, and that people that believe Y believe just as strongly as those that believe X, then there are some possible changes of outcome. The person could of course just go on believing X. Or, a person may decide that neither X nor Y have enough justification to be believed, and discard them. (Especially if it's X, Y, Z, A, B, C, 1, 2, 3 and countless variations). Alternatively, a person may decide to incorporate elements of X and Y into their beliefs, and perhaps some from Z, A, B, C, 1, 2, 3 and others.

Plus certain claims that rely on a given assumption that eventually gets shown to be incorrect due to advances in knowledge, can eventually fall out of favor.

So I wouldn't be surprised to see trends of increasing non-affiliation with religion, and trends of increasing affiliation with melting-pot inclusive religions.

 

[Broken Smoke]

It's easy to loose faith when all you see are different faiths fighting. I am tired of one group (or the mouthpiece for said group) telling me it's their god's way or off to hell you go. Spirituality is very personal and private. To quote the bible somewhere "go you and pray quietly in a closet." This means don't go to the public square and flaunt/promote your faith. Maybe out of all the things said that get distorted in the bible, this one, which seems forgotten, should be used more literally.

If we as humans can't even prove/disprove the very existance of "GOD" to everyones satisfaction, how then can we pick which god is better? Think!!!

 

[Vinayaka]

Across the world? One South American country, no African countries, only Japan and the Philipines from Asia. Doesn't sound like much of a world sampling to me. Ya think there may have been a bias to the research?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Is it a "loss of faith", or merely a rejection of dogma?

 

[Breathe]

Is it a "loss of faith", or merely a rejection of dogma?

Good question.
There are no doubt a lot of people who consider themselves "spiritual but not religious", who would most likely be considered as 'not religious' in such surveys.

 

[idav]

Is it a "loss of faith", or merely a rejection of dogma?

Exactly. Oh no, the major religions are not getting by the millions any more! Monopolies aren't good anyway.

 

[F0uad]

Exactly. Oh no, the major religions are not getting by the millions any more! Monopolies aren't good anyway.

Some are

 

[Broken Smoke]

Is it a "loss of faith", or merely a rejection of dogma?

I see where you are going with this. Yes, you are right. Also, when I think of religion I think "helps people" and "gives comfort". Now I see people twisting a message of peace and love into harm others!! who aren't like you in your faith. A real religion should help people, not make some feel lesser than others.

 

[lalita]

I think loss of faith in a religion is a good thing--it will enable you to hear your own thoughts, conscience - paramatma, the voice of god that dwells within. its not bad, when you remember that organisations are man made.

 

[Valjean]

Vina makes a good point. The sampling bias negates the results of the study.

Faith and security are inversely proportional and will always seesaw up and down with the vicissitudes of economics, environment and politics.

No worries, faithful friends. When the environment collapses and the remnants of society revert to feudalism, faith will reign supreme.
Good work.

 

[Road Warrior]

Is it a "loss of faith", or merely a rejection of dogma?

My theory is that it is a rejection of dogma. Many people see the wrongness of treating gays as second-class citizens or shooting abortion doctors in the back....not to mention flying airplanes into buildings. I think many people want to believe, but they can't accept all of the dogmatic trappings that go with some religions. Take something as simple as contraception. People may want a loving, monogamous relationship with another, but they may not be ready for children or, as in the case of myself, not desire them. How can they completely accept a religion which says they have to either deny themselves sex or risk children?

 

[Nashitheki]

Is it a "loss of faith", or merely a rejection of dogma?

In the minds of some, probably the latter. That dogma and those who push it have been the end for many of spiritual belief, thus a loss of faith.

It's good to see people moving away from such dogma.

 

[Road Warrior]

Both of these studies are from 2008, but should still have validity.

Survey: More have dropped dogma for spirituality in U.S.

The survey finds U.S. adults believe overwhelmingly (92%) in God, and 58% say they pray at least once a day. But the study's authors say there's a "stunning" lack of alignment between people's beliefs or practices and their professed faiths.

Likewise, the long-standing links between highly religious people, conservative ideology and the Republican Party are starting to fray, says a co-author of the study, John Green, a Pew Forum senior research fellow.

UCLA Study: Students Become More Spiritual in College

The study finds that while attendance at religious services decreased dramatically for most students between their freshman and junior years, the students' overall level of spirituality, as defined by the researchers, increases. On hot-button social issues, such as abortion and gay marriage, the study finds that students become increasingly liberal.

 

[HerDotness]

Quoted from survey:

What’s happening here? Because results of surveys like these show a great deal of variation based on age and geography, reasons to explain overall trends will be varied. But the results raise some interesting possibilities to consider, including something as simple as bad behavior, hypocrisy, and outlandish assertions on the part of those who claim most publicly and proudly to be religious believers. The areas that those who claim to be religious fail to shine include child abuse scandals, open LGBT discrimination and support for bullying, attacks on women’s rights, support for war, pushing for religion in science classrooms, prayer-led public meetings, denying the separation of church and state, withholding medical care in favor of prayer for children … and the list goes on.

Road Warrior replied in OP: Yes, even though it still remains very strong, there is a significant drop in the numbers of people who adhere to religion. The authors of the link seem to have us believe that people who stop believing in a major religion are becoming humanists, agnostics or atheists. Not once does the article mention the words "spirit", "spiritual" or "spirituality".

Glad to see you acknowledge further down the thread that the quote referred to dogma and practices which people reject and regard as reason to leave a religion. The quote doesn't say that they aren't still religious or spiritual after they leave, perhaps choosing another faith that doesn't promote the teachings they find objectionable.