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Featured Lord God is not us or they.

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Iymus, Jan 14, 2020.

  1. Iymus

    Iymus Member

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    0. Lord our God is Lord God;

    1. Lord God is He;

    Gen 2:2
    And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

    2. Lord God is Himself;

    Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

    3. Lord God referred as "I" and "Me";

    Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    4. Lord God referred as "you" and alone; not us or we alone.

    Neh 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.

    5. Lord God is one;

    Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

    6. One;

    Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    7. 1Co 10:23
     
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  2. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    That's why I know Jesus is all of God.
     
  3. Iymus

    Iymus Member

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    1. No validation of Gen 1:27 to justify God is us in my observation.

    Gen 1:
    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    Not "So God created man in their own image,"
     
    #3 Iymus, Jan 14, 2020
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  4. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Who was God talking to in V26? He is clearly not talking to himself. But then verse 27 clearly states that "God created man in his own image".....
    So who is the "us" and "our" in Verse 26?
     
  5. Iymus

    Iymus Member

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    1. Lord God himself and others he possessed or brought forth in his image and likeness: This was the sixth day of creation after all.

    2. Us is used by a speaker to refer to himself or herself and one or more other individuals.

    3. So what God brought forth prior to the sixth day in his image and likeness; God said let us make man in our image on the sixth day.

    This seems to be the case
     
    #5 Iymus, Jan 14, 2020
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  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Proverbs 8 gives us a clue as to who the Father was talking to.....
    V22-31...
    "Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way,
    The earliest of his achievements of long ago.

    23 From ancient times I was installed,
    From the start, from times earlier than the earth.

    24 When there were no deep waters, I was brought forth,
    When there were no springs overflowing with water,

    25 Before the mountains were set in place,
    Before the hills, I was brought forth,
    26 When he had not yet made the earth and its fields
    Or the first clods of earth’s soil.

    27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there;
    When he marked out the horizon on the surface of the waters,
    28 When he established the clouds above,
    When he founded the fountains of the deep,
    29 When he set a decree for the sea
    That its waters should not pass beyond his order,
    When he established the foundations of the earth,
    30 Then I was beside him as a master worker.


    I was the one he was especially fond of day by day;
    I rejoiced before him all the time;
    31 I rejoiced over his habitable earth,

    And I was especially fond of the sons of men."

    Here wisdom is personified....but the description fits God's son and agrees with what the apostle Paul said at Colossians 1:15-17....
    "He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist".

    Proverbs is not talking about God's wisdom because it says that God produced it as the 'earliest of his achievements', which would be saying that God was not always wise. Revelation 3:14 says that Jesus was "the beginning of God's creation".
    Creation came "through" the son, not "from" him. The Father alone is the Creator, but he was ably assisted by his firstborn. I believe that God was talking to his "master Worker" in Genesis 1:26.

    There is no gender in heaven, so God is not spoken of as a "he" because he is male, but because of his headship arrangement on earth, males were given authority to teach and to act as priests and shepherds.
    Women had an important role in God's arrangement, but exercising authority over men was not part of it.
    Humility prevents women from wanting to usurp the role of men. They are created as 'compliments' of their male counterparts, not as competition for them.
     
  7. Iymus

    Iymus Member

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    His is A possessive adjective which is an adjective that is used to show ownership.
    Possessive adjectives are used to describe the noun.

    The noun the adjective "his" is describing is God; Therefore God is he.

    The adjective their was not used. Therefore God is not they.

    Their is the equivalent of "Us" when not narrated by or quoting from the speaker.

    So yes God said "let us" however God is he and not they. God is himself and not us.
     
    #7 Iymus, Jan 14, 2020
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  8. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Read the scriptures I quoted to you....there is definitely an “us” that does not detract from the “he”.
     
  9. Good-Ole-Rebel

    Good-Ole-Rebel Well-Known Member

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    The 'He' speaks to God as masculine. The 'Us' speaks to God as plurality. One God, three Persons. Are you concerned over the masculinity of God or the Trinity of God?

    Good-Ole-Rebel
     
  10. LightofTruth

    LightofTruth Well-Known Member

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    "It was the old Jewish explanation that God is here addressing the inhabitants of heaven. In the thought of the devout Israelite, God was One, but not isolated. He was surrounded by the heavenly host (1Ki_22:19)"- Cambridge Bible

    Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
    Psa 103:21 Bless ye the LORD, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.
    Psa 103:22 Bless the LORD, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless the LORD, O my soul.
     
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  11. Iymus

    Iymus Member

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    I did not say that there is not an us. I said Lord God is not us.

    Man being made in the image and likeness of God; If God had came to Man on the 7th day of Creation and said Let us make "XYZ" in our image and likeness, that would not mean that Man is God.

    XYZ cannot say that Man is God because God said Let us.

    All things are of God himself, to include that made in his image and likeness

    As I mentioned : So yes God said "let us" however God is he and not they. God is himself and not us.
     
  12. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    Lord God is omnipresent in us and they. there is no other because god "is" omnipresent.

    John 14:20
    At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


    I will be what I AM


    this is why it is written the first commandment and then you are to love other as god, as self too.


    1 John 4:20
     
  13. Iymus

    Iymus Member

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    Gen 1:26 is direct quote of God
    Gen 1:27 is narration by Moses

    1. If God is "Us"; Then God is "They"; However God is not "They" but "He", as volume of the book states; to include Gen 1:27

    2. Us is used by a speaker to refer to himself or herself and one or more other individuals.

    3. The Us speaks to God himself and others subservient to his will that he is speaking to; that are in his image and likeness.
     
    #13 Iymus, Jan 14, 2020
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  14. Iymus

    Iymus Member

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    1. I am aware of "Deu 6:4" and "Eph 4:6" with God The Father being greater than all "Joh 10:29" and himself "Eph 1:5".

    Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

    Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

    2. I would not disagree that God is omnipresent.

    3. My intention is to show an only true God with next to him being no other because he is greater than all and his will alone be done.
     
  15. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    all can be used as a reference for both singular an plural. kind of like elohim but el is not plural.

    genesis 14:18


    this is the ego talking. it is trying to assign/define god a place; which is elsewhere. the ego doesn't enjoy being out of control. it wants power to judge and assign

    jeremiah 23:24


    Personal Power vs. Power Over Others

    god doesn't separate itself from creation. no where in the bible does it emphasize that. god may be greater than some of it's creation but it's not greater than it's whole being of being what it will be.
     
    #15 Fool, Jan 14, 2020
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  16. Iymus

    Iymus Member

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    1. You said "Lord God is omnipresent in us and they. there is no other because god "is" omnipresent." And I said "I would not disagree that God is omnipresent." but I am the one ego talking; Interesting.

    2. You said "god doesn't separate itself from creation. no where in the bible does it emphasize that." Prophets Moses and Isaiah seem to take a different stance.

    Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

    Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

    Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Isa 43:13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?

    3. God separates those not joined unto him or does his will. If not, there would not be fallen angels.

    4. God made himself known to the Hebrews and defined himself "or his power and divinity" thru his creation

    Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
     
  17. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    isaiah 66 implies god omnipresent here and there.

    1 Corinthians 6:19

    Colossians 3:11
     
  18. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    the fallen angels separated themselves through the illusion. god didn't do anything wrong, the angels did. god can't do wrong.


    john 1:1-3 tells you that all was made by the word that becomes. there was nothing made that wasn't made of it
     
  19. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I am not arguing with you. I am actually agreeing with you.
    What I am suggesting is that God was not alone in his material creation. The “us” and “our” are explained by Proverbs and Colossians. Creation in the invisible realm, as well as the material realm, came “through” God’s firstborn. He was the ‘agency’ used by the Father to ‘fabricate’ all that exists.

    There is no way to deny the singularity of the Father as indicated in Deuteronomy 6:4, which, when read from the Tanakh says...

    4Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one.”
    דשְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהֹוָ֥ה | אֶחָֽד:”


    The Lord” here in English Bible is יְהֹוָ֥ה....Yahweh....Jehovah.

    Again, this is confirmed by Paul.....at 1 Corinthians 8:5-6.....
    “For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.”

    So the scriptures tell us that the Father and the son are two completely different entities who are at unity with one another. Jesus called his Father “the only true God” without including himself in that description, saying only that he was “sent forth” by his God. (John 17:3)
     
    #19 Deeje, Jan 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
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  20. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    I agree completely.
    How can anyone think otherwise?
     
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