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Looking outside your Box

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Er, why do you assume we need to change, then? I don't have any intention of changing, at my stage of life, thanks very much. ;)

Covid-19 shows us what happens when we do not tackle an issue together.

America shows us what happens when we think we have rights as an individual over the whole.

Regards Tony
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I had to consider Islam was was from God, and Buddha, and Krishna and the list goes on.

I had to consider I was part of one human race and that women had equality with men.

I had to consider that doctrine restricts our mind, so how can we see and live faith not bound by doctrine?

All this while considering Truth is Realtive.

We all have a lot to learn.

Regards Tony
No, I meant your Baha'i doctrinal box. What happened when you considered that you might need to change that?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It seems like this a question you would already know the answer to if the answer to my question was "yes."

Well I see Baha'u'llah has opened all boxes.

Thus the question remains, what Doctrine do you see restricts Baha'i thought.

I am happy to consider and discuss any you offer.

Regards Tony
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Spiritual human self reasoning the ability to change by want only.

Origin of wrong searching was by wanted motivation.

A self human and spirit taught contradiction. To want is wrong.

Guilty conscious belief. Spirit self do not want. But we need to want to evolve our mentality.

I asked for spiritual advice.

I gained spiritual advice. For self only.

Meaning just human.

Not science or theisms related only to want of invention. Design invention. Second design in invention. Energy gain via a conversion. Third reason so other machines will consume said energy.

Reasoning self to machine total contradiction presence. Even in cosmology. Cold space history owns all cold energy.

Machine history to use it all up. Cold. Being evolution in space.

Theme teach human self for self ownership our own truth. A human. A spirit. Not cosmos history for machines only.

Not science.

What sacrificed life? Answer science caused.

Who sacrificed life,? Our human brother by change to natural God.

Reason. Why believe in self sacrifice. Spiritual self advised,?

Memory quotes.

Original brother to brother not human parent. As first self presence. A human from spirit.

Brothers a stuck spirit self owned.manifesting.demanifesting.

Natural.

Question. Did we come from a spirit place.

Yes. The eternal owning a spirit self.

Why/how did original eternal change.

A human question.

Therefore we already knew.

Spirit did it in their own body. Space now a hole owning burnt language. A spirit body. A language. Burnt evolved cooled. The mass. Space what used to be an eternal body. A portion.

Human self not owner of that story

Thinker. I am stuck as male. As multi males. I came out of the eternal.

Reason O God put burnt gases that evolved as satanic reasoning back into space. Recontacted the eternal. Portion missing what was burnt.

Nature garden spirit was a living spirit like him. He saw it change as it was released before him into garden body.

Language body spirit gone.

Thinker. We are trapped.

How do I save my family.

I am stuck.

Invented science. Machine to sacrifice his life. Nuclear reaction

Totally conscious of that choice. Self. Group agreed.

Did not get sacrificed. Rational advice. Was converted.

God heavens sacrificed. Garden nature who he did not speak for billions of diverse bodies also sacrificed.

Mind reason spiritual first to believe in self sacrifice. What motivates that self human belief reasoning.

Learning. To realise why self human. An acknowledged self spiritual being decided to sacrifice life claiming it would disconnect the eternal from any more suffering. Male. Human. Theist first. Science designer reactor secondary.

Proven wrong.

Life moved into lower life form. Disconnected from eternal. Human life in nature dies. Memory says once did not own death.

Consciousness says it's form goes to sleep.

Body owns death. Dies self removed.

Are we spiritual first.

Yes.

Do we still own half of self. Not human in eternal consciousness,?

Yes.

We live and own it forever. Lost a small amount of spirit in life/death.

Was never lying about pre owning conscious aware human experience. As if living a dream in a lower life form. A human itself.

Will never be proven as the eternal is not in creation.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
The doctrine that made Jesus God, has been the cause much suffering and rejection of other faiths, it needs to be addressed.
Sure, let's kick the idea in the toilet. And while we're at it, there are a lot of other things, within a lot of other faiths that I also feel need kicked. Can we do that too? Like this nonsense that all religions point to the "same truth." That's absolute and utter crap. We should reserve a special place in the toilet for that one.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sure, let's kick the idea in the toilet. And while we're at it, there are a lot of other things, within a lot of other faiths that I also feel need kicked. Can we do that too? Like this nonsense that all religions point to the "same truth." That's absolute and utter crap. We should reserve a special place in the toilet for that one.

Sure, one could choose to do that, or they could consider that the doctrine may not tell the full story and look at it in another light, understand it in a different way that becomes inclusive of all Faiths. Christ said I have more to say unto you, maybe Christ did and has!

I am sure Jesus as Christ would offer the Spirit gives life, the flesh amounts to nothing and it is time we embraced each other in Spiritual virtue.

So we do have the choice to look at all past doctrine in another spirit.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Spiritual human self reasoning the ability to change by want only.

Origin of wrong searching was by wanted motivation.

A self human and spirit taught contradiction. To want is wrong.

Guilty conscious belief. Spirit self do not want. But we need to want to evolve our mentality.

I asked for spiritual advice.

I gained spiritual advice. For self only.

Meaning just human.

Not science or theisms related only to want of invention. Design invention. Second design in invention. Energy gain via a conversion. Third reason so other machines will consume said energy.

Reasoning self to machine total contradiction presence. Even in cosmology. Cold space history owns all cold energy.

Machine history to use it all up. Cold. Being evolution in space.

Theme teach human self for self ownership our own truth. A human. A spirit. Not cosmos history for machines only.

Not science.

What sacrificed life? Answer science caused.

Who sacrificed life,? Our human brother by change to natural God.

Reason. Why believe in self sacrifice. Spiritual self advised,?

Memory quotes.

Original brother to brother not human parent. As first self presence. A human from spirit.

Brothers a stuck spirit self owned.manifesting.demanifesting.

Natural.

Question. Did we come from a spirit place.

Yes. The eternal owning a spirit self.

Why/how did original eternal change.

A human question.

Therefore we already knew.

Spirit did it in their own body. Space now a hole owning burnt language. A spirit body. A language. Burnt evolved cooled. The mass. Space what used to be an eternal body. A portion.

Human self not owner of that story

Thinker. I am stuck as male. As multi males. I came out of the eternal.

Reason O God put burnt gases that evolved as satanic reasoning back into space. Recontacted the eternal. Portion missing what was burnt.

Nature garden spirit was a living spirit like him. He saw it change as it was released before him into garden body.

Language body spirit gone.

Thinker. We are trapped.

How do I save my family.

I am stuck.

Invented science. Machine to sacrifice his life. Nuclear reaction

Totally conscious of that choice. Self. Group agreed.

Did not get sacrificed. Rational advice. Was converted.

God heavens sacrificed. Garden nature who he did not speak for billions of diverse bodies also sacrificed.

Mind reason spiritual first to believe in self sacrifice. What motivates that self human belief reasoning.

Learning. To realise why self human. An acknowledged self spiritual being decided to sacrifice life claiming it would disconnect the eternal from any more suffering. Male. Human. Theist first. Science designer reactor secondary.

Proven wrong.

Life moved into lower life form. Disconnected from eternal. Human life in nature dies. Memory says once did not own death.

Consciousness says it's form goes to sleep.

Body owns death. Dies self removed.

Are we spiritual first.

Yes.

Do we still own half of self. Not human in eternal consciousness,?

Yes.

We live and own it forever. Lost a small amount of spirit in life/death.

Was never lying about pre owning conscious aware human experience. As if living a dream in a lower life form. A human itself.

Will never be proven as the eternal is not in creation.

I am sorry, I try to read what you post, but I obviously am yet to consider what is in your box of enlightenment.

There is a few passages where I think I understand what you may be saying.

Like you look and find your own spiritual truths.

Regards Tony
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
I am sorry, I try to read what you post, but I obviously am yet to consider what is in your box of enlightenment.

There is a few passages where I think I understand what you may be saying.

Like you look and find your own spiritual truths.

Regards Tony
We teach our owned selves.

One self is everyone.

I was taught by everyone.

I also teach to everyone.

The self.

Want was why we were harmed. Motivation want.

In guilt the spiritual self says I should not want.

The mental self wrong has to want to change.

Want caused change.

The spiritual self says I don't want anymore change.

Because of harm.

Yet motivated by want for change as change was first wanted. We find it difficult to explain the first highest spiritual human historic. Choice science on their beliefs.

Self is therefore selfish and spiritually proven by self wrong.

To correct original choice. Was to never agreed to practice God conversion sciences.

Hence consciousness quotes self in science the highest wisdom. Natural advice contradicts human want.

Natural is its owned status.

Science only owns natural as a self presence.

Science thesis did not invent creation. The confess of Sion I destroyed creation.

The scientist.

What natural argument versus science quotes. No brother of ours human invented our life.

When science quotes what inbetween is missing advice. We all live naturally in any body form. Mass water oxygen is what keeps us all separated.

To speak does not quantify own.

I can quote eternal and know I do not own it.

Science however wanted it returned. God O returned radiation X mass instead. How life died.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
This thread was inspired by comments in an OP saying prople are in a box, if they offer some Faiths may have some incorrect doctrine.

So the Question we should consider in this debate could be;

Would not Doctrine form its own Box?

Consider doctrines are formed to explain the unknown.

So what if many Doctrines are not correct, but were formed around an aspect that is correct.

How can we change, if we can not consider that we may have to change?

View attachment 45819

Regards Tony

Doctrine is a strange thing. One day I was reading about martial arts and it was very strange to realise that in places like China they used to have battles and rivalries between martial arts schools. Sometimes even within the same school. For example, in this story of lineage in Wing Chun, one guy will be so indoctrinated in one style of the art that he refuses to even accept another style and they are willing to fight, hate and die for it. In my opinion that's indoctrination. Imagine this to exist in something like Martial arts! If you truly analyse yourself you would find that all of us have some kind of indoctrination, or at least had in the past.

I have personally done a few experiments in this forum. Lets say to this question, I bring "atheists" in to the discussion. Just the mention of atheism would bring in many atheists who sound very offended at the thought of it. Sometimes I believe its the lions pride never to let your fellow down. Its the same case with every "ism" in the world.

Its a strange thing.

Lets take another example. Muslims and Christians widely have this anti evolution doctrine. What a strange doctrine that is? A Muslim is supposed to be a submitter if I may use it freely. Or lets say a believer. Not "Anti-evolution". So why are some of us so indoctrinated against evolution? You dont have to propagate it, but you dont have to be so hell bent against it either. And the strangest part is one would expect traditionally all Muslims to have been against evolution as a principle, but no they were not. This is a very recent phenomena. As a response to atheists who emerged as a very strong voice against religion using Darwinism muslims and Christians have started becoming so anti evolution that some of them have lost their reasoning prowess. Ibn Khaldun was a Sunni rationalist in the 14th century who propagated evolution but no one went and tried to pester and bog him down. He was hailed as an intellectual, theologian, and philosopher though he himself was sometimes against philosophy but the question is how did some of these Muslims deteriorate? How did this Young Earthers become so dogmatic as Christians? Also one question would be why do some atheists get so aggravated when you say "You know, some Muslims propagated evolution in the past, and in fact before Darwin some western thinkers called evolution "the mohammedan theory"?

Sometimes I feel that some of us are indoctrinated to believe we are not indoctrinated.

Peace.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Doctrine is a strange thing. One day I was reading about martial arts and it was very strange to realise that in places like China they used to have battles and rivalries between martial arts schools. Sometimes even within the same school. For example, in this story of lineage in Wing Chun, one guy will be so indoctrinated in one style of the art that he refuses to even accept another style and they are willing to fight, hate and die for it. In my opinion that's indoctrination. Imagine this to exist in something like Martial arts! If you truly analyse yourself you would find that all of us have some kind of indoctrination, or at least had in the past.

I have personally done a few experiments in this forum. Lets say to this question, I bring "atheists" in to the discussion. Just the mention of atheism would bring in many atheists who sound very offended at the thought of it. Sometimes I believe its the lions pride never to let your fellow down. Its the same case with every "ism" in the world.

Its a strange thing.

Lets take another example. Muslims and Christians widely have this anti evolution doctrine. What a strange doctrine that is? A Muslim is supposed to be a submitter if I may use it freely. Or lets say a believer. Not "Anti-evolution". So why are some of us so indoctrinated against evolution? You dont have to propagate it, but you dont have to be so hell bent against it either. And the strangest part is one would expect traditionally all Muslims to have been against evolution as a principle, but no they were not. This is a very recent phenomena. As a response to atheists who emerged as a very strong voice against religion using Darwinism muslims and Christians have started becoming so anti evolution that some of them have lost their reasoning prowess. Ibn Khaldun was a Sunni rationalist in the 14th century who propagated evolution but no one went and tried to pester and bog him down. He was hailed as an intellectual, theologian, and philosopher though he himself was sometimes against philosophy but the question is how did some of these Muslims deteriorate? How did this Young Earthers become so dogmatic as Christians? Also one question would be why do some atheists get so aggravated when you say "You know, some Muslims propagated evolution in the past, and in fact before Darwin some western thinkers called evolution "the mohammedan theory"?

Sometimes I feel that some of us are indoctrinated to believe we are not indoctrinated.

Peace.

Can not argue with that. ;)

Regards Tony
 
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