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Featured Looking For A Smart Atheist

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Earthling, Mar 5, 2019.

  1. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    OK, there are three options here already: Life, life experience, or blood.

    Which do you want to use? They are three different things.

    Hmm...as far as I can see, none of these says what the soul *is*. They talk a bit about different usages of the word. Which definition do you want to use as our default?

    It seems that the Jewish version you prefer is somewhat similar to the notion of 'living body'. So what, if anything, is the difference between a soul and a living thing? Is 'having a soul' exactly the same as 'being alive'? if so, why two different words?
     
  2. charlie sc

    charlie sc Well-Known Member

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    I know science does not prove anything. I'm using the language she employed. You'll never see me saying prove other than responding to someone who I think I should not be critiqued on this, because I'd rather get to the meat of the argument.
    No one, that I have seen, demands science to do anything. However, I think you fail to notice that Samantha Rinne is looking at science and, perhaps, expecting some kind of disproof. I'll quote her again, "to what I've found nothing in science that disproves the existence of God."

    Perhaps she can say what she means. Nonetheless, I don't know what you mean by this. If there was something supernatural going on that was affecting the natural, it's verifiable. For example, I've read studies done to examine prayer. One such study asked nuns to pray for the good health of some participants in an Alzheimer's home or somesuch. The results were inconclusive, but this is an example of how you can test a supernatural claim indirectly.

    Science does not conflict with belief. I agree. Though this is not what I'm talking about.
     
  3. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    An oddly unconversational reply. You appear to be calling for a definition of the soul yet you offer no response to the issues raised.

    What is it you're actually after?
     
  4. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    I have just re-read Samantha's post and it seems crystal clear to me. It is simply an argument against the false dichotomy between science and religion that so many people seem to assume must exist.

    As for my sentence that you highlighted in bold, I am just saying that science does not settle the issue of the existence of God and saying this is not a controversial observation.
     
  5. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    It's not really the issue. All that was relevant was can the "soul" die or be destroyed. That is what the question was intended to establish. Nothing more. Can the soul, no matter what it is or how it's used, die or be destroyed according to the Bible. Then we take if from there, wherever necessary.
     
  6. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps one in twenty five is capable of doing what you suggest.

    The new atheism isn´t just about idea´s, it is about anger, and feelings of superiority.

    These emotions, though a new atheist will tell you he doesn´t have them, lie just below the surface, and will erupt the moment he feels threatened or challenged.
     
  7. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    Source?
     
  8. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    I don't want a big long discussion on the soul right now.

    My space bar is skipping, so . . . I'm trying to keep an eye on it.

    Let me just explain what I want to do. I used the soul as an example because it was easy. What I want to do is run ideas by the atheist who has preconceived notions about what the Bible says. Not whether it's true etc. Just what message is it trying to convey?

    That's all.

    The soul: Can it die or be destroyed. That's all.
     
  9. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    The verses you quoted suggest that God can destroy souls.

    Since I don't expect consistency from the Bible, I would not be surprised if other verses say the opposite.
     
  10. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    What a stupid thing to say. I hate it when atheists do this, like everything is a scientific claim. Nothing matters except data that this vague Utopian force called science, who's methodology is infallible in so much as it prevents the possibility of error - may say. And yes, I know you will all jump on this and deny it but where, I now ask you, is the source?

    Then you'll say something stupid, like it's my claim. . . blah, blah, blah. . .

    It's like you all live in a science fiction novel.

    Source? He said it. Because he observes it. Open your ****ing eyes and think for yourself without science. You don't have to agree with him or research the data, robot, just open your eyes and address what he said. It's not a phenomenon.
     
    #90 Earthling, Mar 6, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  11. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    i think you have a preconceived notion. thinking that most atheists have bothered to even read all, or even most of the bible.


    i can prove the soul dies. the graveyards are full of them. jesus died too.


    Genesis 2:7
    And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the neshama of life; and man became a living soul.

    prior to god breathing the man was a lump of dust after adam stopped breathing he became a lump of earth.



    the living soul called adam dies.

    Genesis 5:5
    And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.



    The Mosaic account of the creation of man speaks of a spirit or breath with which he was endowed by his Creator (Gen. ii. 7); but this spirit was conceived of as inseparably connected, if not wholly identified, with the life-blood (ib. ix. 4; Lev. xvii. 11). Only through the contact of the Jews with Persian and Greek thought did the idea of a disembodied soul, having its own individuality, take root in Judaism and find its expression in the later Biblical books, as, for instance, in the following passages: "The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord" (Prov. xx. 27); "There is a spirit in man" (Job xxxii. 8); "The spirit shall return unto God who gave it" (Eccl. xii. 7). The soul is called in Biblical literature "ruaḥ," "nefesh," and "neshamah." The first of these terms denotes the spirit in its primitive state; the second, in its association with the body; the third, in its activity while in the body.
     
  12. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    just as an aside, have you fully read any of the canon's of the bible?
     
  13. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Okay . . . boy, I thought the soul would be easy.

    God can destroy a soul. Can I? Can I have my soul destroyed? I will leave the scriptural reference up to you unless you say you've got nothing, but let me just give you the answer. The answer is yes to both questions. That's my position which you may not agree with
     
    #93 Earthling, Mar 6, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  14. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    Old atheists, experience
     
  15. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    That may not even matter. I don't want a theological debate here. I'm running ideas by an atheist who has a capacity for logical thought. I give, as briefly as I can, possibilities. The Jews said this. The Christians say this: The Bible says this: This is a possible theological influence: This is the etymology: These sources say this: Now - what do you think?

    Yes, that seems to be accurate at first glance.
     
  16. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    You're reading into this more than necessary.
    It's called sarcasm.
     
  17. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Sort of...the Bible often doesn't present complete analysis on any of its topics or terms, but rather a list of rules and a wealth of stories. The main aim of the latter is to paint a picture of morality and how to be moral or how hard it is for us human's to achieve such. God's chosen are, sometimes, only barely more moral than the crowd and they struggle to meet God's desires.

    What I find is that with some irony the Bible gives us more questions than answers and this is a good thing. It is teaching that God's creation and how we can be agents of morality in that creation is not something one can distill into a dictionary but rather something which requires our ever vigilant efforts at personal reflection and community discussion. Our stories create complex knots for our sense of justice to untangle and our desire for peace to puzzle out.
     
  18. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    you're debating on belief with people who want verifiable experience. it matters
     
  19. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Seriously? Robots have a sense of humor?
     
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  20. Woberts

    Woberts The Perfumed Seneschal

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    Most of us do. It's generally the humans that are lacking in that regard. :p
     
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