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Featured Looking For A Smart Atheist

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Earthling, Mar 5, 2019.

  1. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Did they have parents?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  2. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Its Myth.. and children have names even in myths.. They just changed the names from the much older Babylonian myth.
     
  3. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    No, they were created.
     
  4. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    Much older? When was Adam created, according to Bible chronology, and how long from the tower of Babel to the Babylonian myths?

    Also, what about the Egyptian myths involving the tree of life. You don't see many trees in Egypt, do you?
     
  5. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Sure. And I am sure He was so fond of the previous ape design, that He decided to reuse it for someone in His image. Never change a winning ape, so to speak.

    How is your quest for an atheist, who does not chuckle at that, going? LOL

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    #205 viole, Mar 7, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  6. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Just about every culture has a tree of life.. The Babylonian myth is two thousand years older than Genesis.

    Genesis 4 King James Version (KJV)
    4 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

    2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

    3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
     
  7. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    Not very well. Why do you think that is? Do you think they were too well indoctrinated? How do you think they did that? Dinosaurs and kids? Science Fiction appeal? Or do you think they were indoctrinated much later, like in college, where basically you get scorned if you admit you are a believer I hear. As ideologically possessed as they are now on campuses that certainly isn't difficult to believe.
     
  8. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Who can say? I can tell you only that here in Europe, Adam and Eve are to be seen only on some cartoons. And it is difficult to see people older than 8, believing those. I don’t think that even the Bible channel believe in a literal Adam and Eve. Obviously.

    Nobody wants a new global deluge caused by the laughing tears of the audience.

    But it is thrilling that some do still believe that. It is like discovering those older populations that had no contact with progress and have all those interesting superstitions. Anthropologically is a cool thing.

    :)

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  9. charlie sc

    charlie sc Active Member

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    I assume you made a slight error here and meant there are exceptions in the garden because you're saying that certain things didn't exist there, "Can we not logically conclude that harmful plants, such as the ones mentioned in the earlier thread, marijuana, opium, cocaine were not in the garden ."

    Anyway, ok so physically harmful and hallucinogenic plants were excluded from Eden. I'd assume also roses were because they have thorns.


    What next?
     
  10. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    Roses? It certainly is possible. It might also be possible that roses didn't have thorns up until that time. Who knows? This is all just speculation.

    Why would you want to do this?
     
  11. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    Why do you think that there is that stark contrast between Europe and America?
     
  12. charlie sc

    charlie sc Active Member

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    Do what? Take your test or assume roses may have been considered harmful according to your criteria?

    I'm taking your test cause I'm curious and I just made a deduction, from your reasoning, that roses could be considered unwelcome there. I reasoned this from what your said here, "There were thorns and thistles. Inside the garden was the opposite." Since roses have thorns I'd assume they weren't.
    If you want to include them, that's fine.

    Should we continue?
     
  13. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Well, creationists of that kind seem to be mainly concentrated in America. You will have problems here to find beliefs that include a literal Adam and Eve without parents. If they are older than 8, obviously.

    Anyway, I am trying to help you find your atheist. I believe your requirements of her being smart and, at the same time, open minded enough to even consider any of that, might be mutually exclusive. Like searching for a married bachelor.

    I suggest to drop the “smart” requirement to increase your odds.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  14. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    See, that's why you aren't "smart." They don't have to be open minded to anything but what the Bible says. For example, they don't have to conclude that God made the heavens and earth, they only have to conclude that Genesis 1:1 says God created the heavens and earth.
     
  15. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    Alright then. If I make tell you that I went to the mall and bought a new coat would that be a contradictory statement to telling @Polymath257 that I bought a new coat at the mall?
     
  16. charlie sc

    charlie sc Active Member

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    Changing the subject and then bringing me into another conversation where, it seems, you plan to show another person incorrect makes me think this is not an intellectually honest conversation and you're trolling.
    Nonetheless, these two statements don't seem to contradict each other. Now, why would you ask me that?
     
  17. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    That isn't really answering my question. When was Genesis wrote? When was Gilgamesh circulated. If there were people who scattered out all over the earth from Babel, how many thousands of years before Moses wrote Genesis in 1513 B.C.E.

    It's easy to say that the Babylonian myth is two thousand years older, if you read it somewhere and have no idea what you are talking about. Anyway, why Gilgamesh, why not the older Ziusudra? Only ever heard of the more popular with atheists Gilgamesh?


    Don't know why you posted that.
     
    #217 Earthling, Mar 7, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  18. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson
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    You asked for the next subject. This is it. I only used Polymath for the purpose of example, this actually has nothing other than that to do with him. So there is no other person incorrect.

    You answered correctly. So the two creation accounts aren't contradictory just because they are in different order.

    Okay. Reluctantly I'm going to put up the Universal Man's Annotated Bible on my website where we will record our conclusions. I'll do that later today. Shouldn't take long.
     
  19. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The tower of Babel story is about the collapse of a civilization and the lapse in literacy. There are towers all over the Middle East.

    Genesis was written about 500 BC after the Babylonian exile. The Babylonian flood myths date to 2,000 BC.
     
  20. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Sumerians and Babylon Tree of Life
    The oldest name of Babylon, Tin-tir-ki, meant ‘the place of the tree of life’. To the Babylonians, it was a tree with magical fruit, which could only be picked by the gods. The earlier Sumerian traditions played a major role in Babylonian culture. The early Sumerian art (around 2500 BC) depicts pictures of a pole or a tree called the ‘axis mundi’. Guarding this tree is a snake or a pair of intertwined snakes. Babylonians have the concept of the ‘navel of the world’, the place of the connection of different spheres. This vertical dimension, axis mundi, is the connection between three cosmic spheres: heaven, earth and underworld. The sacred mountain, the temple, the sacred city are all considered to be this Sacred Space, the axis mundi, the connection of the three cosmic dimensions.

    Assyrians and Tree of Life
    Assyrians substituted the tree for the caduceus with coiled snakes circling around the wood of the wand. Here we see a snake symbolising an underworld consciousness, passing through earth, climbing a stick, transcends to a winged reality, a heavenly creature. Wings on a wand became a symbol of transformation and transcendence.

    Egyptian Tree of Life
    [​IMG]

    In Egyptian mythology, the first couple are Isis and Osiris. They have emerged from the acacia tree of Iusaaset, which the Egyptians considered the tree of life. Egyptians considered the Tree of Life to be the tree in which life and death are enclosed. The direction East was associated with the direction of Life, the direction of the rising Sun, and the direction West was seen as the direction of death, of under-world, because Sun sets in the West. Egyptian creation myths refer to a serpent and a primordial egg, which contained a bird of light.

    Tree of Life and its Meaning
     
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