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Looking for a debate with creationists (I am an atheist)

ecco

Veteran Member
Yes, I can see by your latest rhetoric above that you "don't hate god".

Your attempt at sarcasm is noted. However, you are correct. I do not hate god. The would require much more specificity. Are you referring to the African god Ayabe? Are you referring to the nebulous god of the Bahais? Hindu gods? Thor, Atlas, Athena?



Yes, I can see by your RF activity that you spend your time productively, fighting the hardest, most ignorant people who exist--religionists. I don't spend a lot of time in asylums, to be frank.

You seem to know to whom I post my comments. If you want to refer to them as the "most ignorant people who exist--religionists", that's up to you.

ETA: If you want to include yourself in that category, that's also your decision.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
False analogies with cultists above. You are PRECISELY the pain in the tush that the Bible says you would be. I wish you'd behave maturely and argue from fact and not emotion, but the Bible says . . .

That's funny.

You
use a book of silly stories that men with an agenda wrote and you want me to behave maturely and argue from fact.

You rely on nonsense stories written 4000 and 2000 years ago by people with no knowledge of science and you want me to behave maturely and argue from fact.

Yeah. That's funny.

If you think you are a religious believer, and a rationalist, that's also funny.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
That's funny.

You
use a book of silly stories that men with an agenda wrote and you want me to behave maturely and argue from fact.

You rely on nonsense stories written 4000 and 2000 years ago by people with no knowledge of science and you want me to behave maturely and argue from fact.

Yeah. That's funny.

If you think you are a religious believer, and a rationalist, that's also funny.

It is unfortunate that you don't understand my stance: The Bible contains remarkable fulfilled prophecies, the love of Jesus, and numerous scientific accuracies that make it compelling. One can even be a fundamentalist and learn that modern science does not counter Bible truth.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
It is unfortunate that you don't understand my stance:

I do understand your stance. It can be summed up in two words: Blind Faith.



The Bible contains remarkable fulfilled prophecies,

Uh huh. Fulfilled prophecies like "Christians will be mocked".

How about a real prophecy - fulfilled. The question has been raised in these forums many times. Each time the answer from a fundamentaliust is just another duck and dodge.



the love of Jesus, and numerous scientific accuracies that make it compelling.

Care to name a few scientific accuracies?

Like these...
Pi = 3
The four corners of the earth
The entire world was flooded
The sun stood still




One can even be a fundamentalist and learn that modern science does not counter Bible truth.

There are several fundamentalists that post in these threads regularly. They would disagree with you.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
I do understand your stance. It can be summed up in two words: Blind Faith.





Uh huh. Fulfilled prophecies like "Christians will be mocked".

How about a real prophecy - fulfilled. The question has been raised in these forums many times. Each time the answer from a fundamentaliust is just another duck and dodge.





Care to name a few scientific accuracies?

Like these...
Pi = 3
The four corners of the earth
The entire world was flooded
The sun stood still






There are several fundamentalists that post in these threads regularly. They would disagree with you.

There are hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, and online you can look them up and see their fulfillment outside the scriptures.

I note that you brought out more canards like pi rather than actually inquire about scientific accuracies as claimed. Therefore, you're a typical skeptical bigot who insists ALL of the Bible is off rather than a more balanced SOME of the Bible is dead on--I wonder why you can't find any common ground with a fundamentalist like myself?

The fundamentalists who are unlearned about the accuracies and perfection of the Bible are going to Heaven. My concern is for the lost at RF, who still won't even appeal to demonstrable prophecies and known SCIENCE.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
There are hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, and online you can look them up and see their fulfillment outside the scriptures.

I note that you brought out more canards like pi rather than actually inquire about scientific accuracies as claimed. Therefore, you're a typical skeptical bigot who insists ALL of the Bible is off rather than a more balanced SOME of the Bible is dead on--I wonder why you can't find any common ground with a fundamentalist like myself?

The fundamentalists who are unlearned about the accuracies and perfection of the Bible are going to Heaven. My concern is for the lost at RF, who still won't even appeal to demonstrable prophecies and known SCIENCE.
So in other words, you only want to talk about the parts that you believe are correct and impressive, yet wish to keep completely silent and ignore all the parts where it is obviously wrong - and not just a bit wrong, but like extremely doofus-style wrong?

How.... unsurprising.

In any case, you kind of said it yourself: if a mistake can't be smeared out to say something about the bible in general, then you can't do the same for things that turn out correct.

In other words, in the end, each individual claim in the bible falls or stands on its own merrits.

Meaning that any fullfilled prophecy about anything (I'll bend over backwards for a second and pretend that such prophecies exist, but they don't obviously), isn't going to have any impact on the credibility of all other claims.

If the bible getting PI wrong doesn't mean that jesus didn't died for our sin, then guess what... then getting something, anything, correct, isn't going to mean that jesus did died for our sins either.

If getting PI wrong only means that it got Pi wrong.
Then getting X right only means that it got X right.

In fact, establishing that it got X right, whatever X is, also doesn't tell you HOW it got X right.
All it tells you, is that it got X right. You still don't know how or why.



Funny how the very logic that you use to argue your case, also works against you, ha?

Logic is a two-way street off course.....
 

ecco

Veteran Member
ecco previously...
How about a real prophecy - fulfilled. The question has been raised in these forums many times. Each time the answer from a fundamentalist is just another duck and dodge.​

There are hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, and online you can look them up and see their fulfillment outside the scriptures.

I previously stated: "Each time the answer from a fundamentalist is just another duck and dodge."

That was not just a comment based on history, but it was also a prophecy. It was fulfilled. By you, BilliardsBall. I guess that makes me as good a prophet as the guys who wrote the Bible.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I note that you brought out more canards like pi ...

I also brought out
The four corners of the earth
The entire world was flooded
The sun stood still
Do you really want to claim that the sun standing still is a scientific accuracy?



...rather than actually inquire about scientific accuracies as claimed.

Can you list some scientific accuracies? If you can, why haven't you? Are you going to duck and dodge like you did with the questions of prophecies? Are you going to tell me to spend my time looking for them on the internet?


Therefore, you're a typical skeptical bigot who insists ALL of the Bible is off rather than a more balanced SOME of the Bible is dead on--I wonder why you can't find any common ground with a fundamentalist like myself?

I never wonder why I can't find common ground with fundamentalists like you. I know there is none. I know there is nothing valid in a compilation of myths. Am I bigoted for knowing that Harry Potter is not a real wizard? Am I bigoted for knowing that goat spots have nothing to do with nearby trees? Am I bigoted for knowing that the entire earth was never flooded killing almost all humans?

Also, when it comes to me and religion, the term "skeptical" is not appropriate. I might be skeptical of some concepts of multiverse theory. I might be skeptical of some concepts of n-dimensions. But I am far beyond skeptical...
not easily convinced; having doubts or reservations.​
...when it comes to gods and religion.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
There are hundreds of fulfilled prophecies, and online you can look them up and see their fulfillment outside the scriptures.

And, when investigated, ALL of those prophesies are either self-fulfilling, made after the events, or so vague as to be useless.

I note that you brought out more canards like pi rather than actually inquire about scientific accuracies as claimed. Therefore, you're a typical skeptical bigot who insists ALL of the Bible is off rather than a more balanced SOME of the Bible is dead on--I wonder why you can't find any common ground with a fundamentalist like myself?

Show one example of a 'scientific accuracy' unambiguously stated in the Bible that was not known at the time it was assembled.

The fundamentalists who are unlearned about the accuracies and perfection of the Bible are going to Heaven. My concern is for the lost at RF, who still won't even appeal to demonstrable prophecies and known SCIENCE.

Please give examples of this 'known science' that goes beyond what was known at the time the Bible was written.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
They were just as persuasive, thought-provoking, and fact-based arguments as were your claims to the contrary.

Project much?

Yes, yes you do.

The difference being, off course, that if we actually were to argue those assertions, I could actually demonstrate mine with actual evidence, while he'll only have "faith" for his - faith that will be in direct contradiction with the evidence. So it won't even be "faith" concerning the unknown.... it would be the kind of "faith" that directly contradicts things that are actually known...

So it's not even "I have faith that this thing that isn't known at all by science, will have a god-factor in its explanation".

It's actually "This thing here that science has actually solved and explained..., I have "faith" that reality is incorrect and that my impossible religious myth is actually the real answer"

It's a whole other category of irrational imo.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
So in other words, you only want to talk about the parts that you believe are correct and impressive, yet wish to keep completely silent and ignore all the parts where it is obviously wrong - and not just a bit wrong, but like extremely doofus-style wrong?

How.... unsurprising.

In any case, you kind of said it yourself: if a mistake can't be smeared out to say something about the bible in general, then you can't do the same for things that turn out correct.

In other words, in the end, each individual claim in the bible falls or stands on its own merrits.

Meaning that any fullfilled prophecy about anything (I'll bend over backwards for a second and pretend that such prophecies exist, but they don't obviously), isn't going to have any impact on the credibility of all other claims.

If the bible getting PI wrong doesn't mean that jesus didn't died for our sin, then guess what... then getting something, anything, correct, isn't going to mean that jesus did died for our sins either.

If getting PI wrong only means that it got Pi wrong.
Then getting X right only means that it got X right.

In fact, establishing that it got X right, whatever X is, also doesn't tell you HOW it got X right.
All it tells you, is that it got X right. You still don't know how or why.



Funny how the very logic that you use to argue your case, also works against you, ha?

Logic is a two-way street off course.....

I think you make excellent points above. Please list some places where you're sure the Bible "got it right":

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

For example, the Bible dates to older than skeptics claim, since archaeology has authenticated many facets of architecture and etc. unknown to later writers.
 
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