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Long Hair or not Long hair...the is the Question.

Jensen

Active Member
Maybe a Witness would answer this question for me? since on another thread no one will. My post started with this....

I really would like an explanation to what is meant by verse 16. What do you think is being said here? Is it that long hair or not long hair does not matter to the churches of God? That neither men nor women must adhere to these verses? as it says we have no such custom, neither the churches of God...
I do not plan to debate this...but am seeking an explanation as I'm not sure that I've understood it correctly in the past.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jensen
Ok, so one should dismiss the verse if one does not agree with it? And give it a different meaning? That I could see if one doesn't believe in the bible. Here is the verse in context...after reading it, tell me what do you think is meant by the last verse...16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God. What do you think is being said here?

1 Cor 11:1-16


1Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

2Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. 3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. 5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven. 6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. 7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. 8For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. 9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. 11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. 13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.


 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Hi Jesnen,

The subject matter in 1Corinthians chapter 11 is that of headcoverings for women in the congregation. Women were praying and perhaps even prophesying in the congregation and Paul is advising that, due to the headship arrangment, women who do so should have a 'sign' on her head. We have to remember that a lot of the new followers were not jewish and may not have had a lot of knowledge about jewish customs. The head covering was for a woman to show outwardly that she respected her position as one of submission and not as a leader of the congregation.

So if she was to pray or prophecy or teach in the congregation, she should wear a head covering as a sign of respect to Gods arrangement.

Insight on the Scriptures printed by the WT says:
The need for this counsel to the congregation at ancient Corinth is better understood when we realize that it was the general custom then for women always to be veiled in public. Only those of loose morals went unveiled. And the pagan priestesses at the temples evidently followed the practice of removing their veils and letting their hair hang disheveled when claiming to be under divine inspiration. Such a practice in the Christian congregation would be disgraceful and a flouting of Jehovah God’s arrangement of headship and subjection. Paul concluded his argument by saying that if anyone disputed for any custom other than what Paul set forth, the congregation should nevertheless follow the apostle’s counsel regarding the wearing of a head covering. This makes such instruction applicable at all times and places in the Christian congregation.—1Co 11:16.

Your question about Vs16 specifically "...we have no such custom, neither the churches of God..." simply means that there is no 'other' custom the congregation follows with regard to headcoverings. They were jews and had been wearing headcoverings as a sign for thousands of years....there was no other custom to follow that he was aware of.

So today, the way we apply this verse is that women in the congregations will wear a headcovering if she is teaching or praying on behalf of the congregation. That is when a headcovering is required because women do not have authority by God to teach in the congregations, only men do. However that doesn't mean meant that women cannot teach,preach or pray, they can and they do and they did in the early church. But when they do, they wear a head covering to show they respect Gods arrangement of headship because that was the custom that they had always followed.
 
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Jensen

Active Member
Thanks for the reply Pegg, but verse 15 says that her hair is the covering.

15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

And so why does she need an additional covering? And is there any verse on this said by Jesus ?

Thanks,

Jensen
 
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Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Thanks for the reply Pegg, but verse 15 says that her hair is the covering.

15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

And so why does she need an additional covering? And is there any verse on this said by Jesus ?

Thanks,

Jensen

thats because she is performing the role assigned to a man. And if she is to do that, she should demonstrate that she is not attempting to take the role of a man....Pauls advice is to follow the custom of wearing a head covering in that situation.

If you walked into a congregation and saw a woman standing on the platform giving instructions to the congregation, it might give you the impression that she's in an authoritative role. But God has not assigned women that role of authority, so a headcovering is needed.

The headship arrangement is as follows:
1Cor 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with something on his head shames his head; 5 but every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered shames her head


For this reason, a woman is not to exercise authority over a congregation... God has not assigned her that role and if she were to take it, then she is showing disrespect for God and Christ and all christian men to whom responsibility is given.
 

Jensen

Active Member
Hi Pegg, thanks for the answer, but, sorry, it is about what you said before. And the question about whether Jesus had said anything on this wasn't answered. Did Jesus have anything to say on this?

Also, was there anything said in scripture on this before Paul?

Thanks,

Jensen
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Hi Pegg, thanks for the answer, but, sorry, it is about what you said before. And the question about whether Jesus had said anything on this wasn't answered. Did Jesus have anything to say on this?

Also, was there anything said in scripture on this before Paul?

Thanks,

Jensen

Jesus spoke of his own subjection to God but the gospels record nothing about his teaching on the position of women. However, if we consider the jewish culture at the time, it was the custom for the men to lead and the women to be in subjection to that lead. When Paul was speaking about it, he was addressing the gentiles who were not familiar with such customs.

But we can see the roles of men and women in the mosaic law in the way God arranged the nation when he brought them out of Egypt.
All the priests were to be from the 'sons' of Aaron.
Exodus 28:1 “You are to summon from the Israelites your brother Aaron, along with his sons, so that he may serve as priest to me
No daughters were given such responsibility in the law. The high priest was to be a 'son' of Aaron, the Levites serving at the temple were all to be 'males'
It was compulsory for every 'male' of the nation to go up to the festival at the temple but it wasnt' compulsory for the women to attend those festivals because we know that there was the law regarding menstruation...if a woman was menstruating, she was to remain separate from others and rest in her home...the law instructed that she was not even required to do any laborious work during that time. So if a woman was menstruating while a festival was taking place, she would have been at home relaxing and enjoying her free time.

The temple even had an area where only the males could enter, and outside of that area was the 'court of women' It was located just outside of the temple area separate from the work going on inside the temple area... so we can see even in the way the jews built the temple, they were demonstrating an understanding that women did not play a leading role in the arrangements for worship. Women supported the temple in many ways, tithes, offering sacrifices and donating money etc...but they were not involved in any of the management, teaching or decisions being made there.

Jesus was brought up in that environment, so if he thought there was something wrong with that , he surely would have said so. And this is why we see the christian writings stipulating that the subjection of women are the right thing to do... not only Paul mentions this, but also the Apostle Peter at 1Peter 3:1 "you wives be in subjection to your husbands...5 For this is how the holy women of the past who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, subjecting themselves to their husbands, 6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you have become her children, provided you continue doing good and do not give in to fear."


We need to understand the mosaic law in order to understand christianity. I know some people think that the mosaic law doesnt apply to christians, but the principles or spirit behind that law do apply to us because that law comes from Jehovah God and they are his standards and requirements.
 

Jensen

Active Member
Honestly Pegg, no, not completely, but will have to let it go for now, as this issue is a very personal thing, and so is a little disturbing for me. The verse that says her hair is given her for a covering is helpful for me.

You have given very good points though, so will think on them. Thanks again..

Jensen
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Honestly Pegg, no, not completely, but will have to let it go for now, as this issue is a very personal thing, and so is a little disturbing for me. The verse that says her hair is given her for a covering is helpful for me.

You have given very good points though, so will think on them. Thanks again..

Jensen

no worries at all. :)
 
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