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London Bridge Incident

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Ultimately, clearing the perpetrator and shooting him instantly was a good choice because at the time, they had no idea the vest was a fake.

...Job well done. And congratulations to the concerned citizens for mobbing him and taking his knife. Well done, Londoners..!
I agree, in as much as that was the best possible course of action at that point.

On the other hand, it would be a shame to just call it a day and make no attempt at finding out the root causes of that behavior and engaging in a bit of prevention, hopefully in a humane way.

Of course I don't know what that would mean in practice, although I have my hunches. I wonder what exists in the way of efforts at integration in London.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I agree, in as much as that was the best possible course of action at that point.

On the other hand, it would be a shame to just call it a day and make no attempt at finding out the root causes of that behavior and engaging in a bit of prevention, hopefully in a humane way.

Of course I don't know what that would mean in practice, although I have my hunches. I wonder what exists in the way of efforts at integration in London.
Don't worry: the police will be all over this man's background and contacts, like a rash, for weeks.

There is a huge amount of effort devoted to understanding the conditions that lead to these incidents and thus ways of getting advance intelligence of when someone may be about to flip. I understand the UK police do now get quite a lot of information from the muslim communities, about people who may be going off the rails: most of them are just as appalled by these incidents as the rest of us. From what I read, the UK has become quite a source of expertise on this. But a nutter can always get through from time to time. What will be interesting is to see whether this guy was just a lone nutcase, or whether he was part of something organised. I would guess a simple knife attack is probably the work of a loner, but we'll have to wait and see.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
It seems he was out on a form of what the U.S. calls parole for terrorism charges, we have a lot of criminals here in the states that get out on parole only to go on to repeat offend.
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
The top priority of a government is to protect its citizens but our government is allowing ISIS children into the UK because they say it is the right thing to do.

Those same politicians will make speeches about how terrorism will not change our society but they will not talk about Political Islam.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Further info: this guy had done time for terrorism but was out on parole per normal procedure. So he was known to the authorities, but evidently not thought to pose a risk.

It appears he, along with other ex-cons and students from Cambridge university, were taking part in a conference on prisoner rehabilitation at the Fishmongers' Hall and this guy suddenly got out a knife, no doubt shouting "Allahu akbar" as they generally do, and started attacking people. Apparently one guy wrenched a narwhal tusk off the wall and chased him with it.

This may perhaps explain why the video seems to show him pinned down by fairly beefy looking blokes with thick necks and wearing trainers, rather than city suits. Could be they were some of the ex-cons!

And now the cops are searching a house in Stafford where he was living. So the story begins to emerge.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Trump ally says London Bridge attack 'wouldn't have happened' if Brits had guns | Metro News

Oh such a sensible suggestion - but then the perp might just have shot so many more (more guns generally means more deaths) - as happens in the USA - and frequently!

Unless someone has a method of limiting guns to the good and wise?
What an imbecile.

And we would then no doubt also have the pleasure of innumerable school shootings, just as they do in the USA. Yes, you know it makes sense. :confused:
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
What an imbecile.

And we would then no doubt also have the pleasure of innumerable school shootings, just as they do in the USA. Yes, you know it makes sense. :confused:

And the courageous individuals who tackled the perp showed that we don't need such weapons. They were basically unarmed but managed to use whatever came to hand. It's just an escalating scenario once guns become commonplace.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The top priority of a government is to protect its citizens but our government is allowing ISIS children into the UK because they say it is the right thing to do.

It is the right thing to do, unless you are into genocide.

Or, I suppose, if you feel like going abroad to help raise foreign children yourself.

Of course, birth planning is a Good and Necessary Thing. There is no good consequence conceivable for pressuring societies by way of population numbers.

Worries about demographic pressures seem to be the sole element of the right wing agenda that I have any sympathy for.

Those same politicians will make speeches about how terrorism will not change our society but they will not talk about Political Islam.

There is indeed something of a blind spot there. But that can change if true dialog (as opposed to pointless confrontation) is pursued.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
It is the right thing to do, unless you are into genocide.

Or, I suppose, if you feel like going abroad to help raise foreign children yourself.

Of course, birth planning is a Good and Necessary Thing. There is no good consequence conceivable for pressuring societies by way of population numbers.

Worries about demographic pressures seem to be the sole element of the right wing agenda that I have any sympathy for.



There is indeed something of a blind spot there. But that can change if true dialog (as opposed to pointless confrontation) is pursued.
And what's an "ISIS child" anyway? A child doesn't grow up to be a fanatic unless he or she is brought up that way. Less chance of that in Britain than in Iraq.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
The purp who was shot has died

Its being treated as a terror incident
Yay! We can rubbish UK gun laws as ineffective AND have a dogwhistle "anti-terrorist" hate-fest! A twofer! Ain't cherry picking out of context, statistically irrelevant incidents great? Maybe it will snow somewhere later and we can declare climate change over, too!
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Aaaaand... here come the Usual Suspects to carp and crow and revel in the bias confirming ruin of another human's life.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
And what's an "ISIS child" anyway? A child doesn't grow up to be a fanatic unless he or she is brought up that way. Less chance of that in Britain than in Iraq.
I think "ISIS child" is what, in poker, they call a "tell". Is there anything more dehumanizing or otherising of a group than to declare it's CHILDREN irredeemably evil?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yay! We can rubbish UK gun laws as ineffective AND have a dogwhistle "anti-terrorist" hate-fest! A twofer! Ain't cherry picking out of context, statistically irrelevant incidents great? Maybe it will snow somewhere later and we can declare climate change over, too!


It was icy in the north west UK this morning (not sure about other areas) does that count?
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
And what's an "ISIS child" anyway? A child doesn't grow up to be a fanatic unless he or she is brought up that way. Less chance of that in Britain than in Iraq.

Do we know what indoctrination they have already suffered from and who will be bringing them up in the UK?

They will not remain children forever.
 

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
What sickened me was Dodgy Boris Johnson trying to make political capital out of this awful event. Basically he was blaming the criminal justice system for this guys early release from prison, and reminding us how the Tories are the party of "law and order". But this is sheer hypocrisy, because its his Tory government which has CUT criminal justice funding by 40% since 2010. Police officers, courts, prison officers, probation officers, all subject to savage cuts.
As an ex-Probation Officer, I do have some understanding of these issues.
 
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Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
The top priority of a government is to protect its citizens but our government is allowing ISIS children into the UK because they say it is the right thing to do.

Those same politicians will make speeches about how terrorism will not change our society but they will not talk about Political Islam.

These same politicians make speeches about law and order, but have cut criminal justice funding by 40% since 2010.
 
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