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Logic vs Religion
- Thread starter guilo
- Start date
Have you ever read a theology?
guilo
Undercover Nudist
The Bible talks of having an unwavering faith. How can one have an unwavering faith, when you have searched and looked earnestly for God all your life, prayed in the hope of receiving a reply, but nothing came in reply. I do not know how to have a relationship with God, if it is just me giving the input all the time. Then that faith that one had from childhood has to waver if you have any mind at all, because if there is no answer from God, how do you know that he is there listening to you.
guilo
Undercover Nudist
I'm glad to see people are viewing this thread, but please give replies.
People always say that Christianity can not be a hoax, because there is no way that so many people can be fooled. But that is contradicting themselves, because how is it possible that Islam or Hinduism or Buddhism is a hoax? They can't all be true, in fact, just one of them at most can be true. It is even more likely when you think about it, that none of them are true! If so many people are not hitting the nail on the head, how can we be sure that one of them is?
People always say that Christianity can not be a hoax, because there is no way that so many people can be fooled. But that is contradicting themselves, because how is it possible that Islam or Hinduism or Buddhism is a hoax? They can't all be true, in fact, just one of them at most can be true. It is even more likely when you think about it, that none of them are true! If so many people are not hitting the nail on the head, how can we be sure that one of them is?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Because people aren't emotionally equipped to question and doubt something that they've been deeply ingrained, indoctrinated and conditioned to believe.
tomspug
Absorbant
Some people, like yourselves, need logic to find meaning. Others do not.
Myself, I find logic everywhere in Christianity. It doesn't hold my faith together, but it is what emboldens my understanding and empowers my ability to communicate my faith to others.
Theology is, by definition, an attempt to use logic to define the mystery of God. God is, by definition, a mystery, but we as humans (whether by reason or by divine revelation) have a certain capacity to grasp who or what God is, although not to any extent that remotely resembles his entire being.
Myself, I find logic everywhere in Christianity. It doesn't hold my faith together, but it is what emboldens my understanding and empowers my ability to communicate my faith to others.
Theology is, by definition, an attempt to use logic to define the mystery of God. God is, by definition, a mystery, but we as humans (whether by reason or by divine revelation) have a certain capacity to grasp who or what God is, although not to any extent that remotely resembles his entire being.
PureX
Veteran Member
Because people need more than logic alone can give them. We also have art, and entertainment, too, they aren't logical, either. Logic is not all there is available to us. We also have fantasy and intuition and humor and beauty and a number of other tools to help us fund value and meaning in our lives.
whereismynotecard
Treasure Hunter
About 5 or so years ago, I told god that if he was real, and he could show me just a little bit of proof that he existed, I would believe in him, but either he doesn't exist, or my belief in him is unimportant to him, because he didn't show me any proof whatsoever...
And by "proof" I don't mean that something written in the bible seems to have possibly been true... I mean actual proof that would show me without a doubt that he exists...
I had the opportunity to teach math at one time. All my students believed in the concept of math, which is an eternal concept, but they were not all able to make math work for themselves. They were not mentally slow. They simply did not know what to look for in their reasoning process that did not allow them to work math. My job as a teacher was to show them their mental gaps in reasoning. With instruction on the logic of math, they all became better students.
I suggest you have looked in wrong places for God. He is not in the physical world, although some will tell you that is all there is. God resides in eternity which is not a place. He is located the same place eternal forms of science, reasoning, math, and all types of knowledge is. He is the spark to all these: that is how you will know God for that is what he is.
Happy hunting
Sure, anything can be a hoax. To have a hoax on your hands, all you have to do is use faulty premises in your thinking process. There is no conflict between God and correct reasoning just like there is no conflict and correct reasoning.
whereismynotecard
Treasure Hunter
I'm not worried about it anymore. I am pretty certain that there is no God, and I will not be looking for him... That was a time when I first realized that I didn't believe in god, when I was 12 or 13... My parents never mentioned that there might not be a god, so I never questioned it. Then I watched The X-Files, and it made me think about it more... So I thought, "This is ridiculous; there cannot possibly be a god."
Honestly, you don't need to try to convince me either... I won't just start believing in god, no matter what you argue.
I don't wish to pull the rug from underneath this conversation, but who cares if there is a god? Once you understand the concepts of right and wrong, the existence of another life formsupernatural or notis irrelevant, right? So why all the fuss?
Of course, we all know the reason that people search for faith: They simply want god to exist because the death benefit plan is hard to beateverlasting bliss.
Of course, we all know the reason that people search for faith: They simply want god to exist because the death benefit plan is hard to beateverlasting bliss.
Maybe it seems that way because so many people assume that they don't or shouldn't go hand-in-hand?
. Also people tend to forget that you can have an argument that is completely logical but is still wrong due to faulty premises. And that applies to both theists and atheist alike
You think that the only reason people want to believe is because of the prospect of paradise when they reach the after-life? That's quite a generalization your making. Do you have any evidence to back this up? Do you know anyone who has said that the only reason they believe is because of the prospect of a blissful afterlife? I can't speak for others but I can tell you that that certainly isn't why I believe. I don't even believe in "everlasting bliss", in this life or the next. In fact if someone offered it to me I wouldn't take it... I find the prospect of everlasting bliss to be dull and pointless. But that's just me
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
To an extent, logic is dogmatized, and dogmas tend to gnaw at each other more than anything.
guilo
Undercover Nudist
All this talk of dogma and faulty premises is going over my head. I'm talking about logic which is common sense. I don't know if I'm wrong, maybe it's just me being left-brained, but logic is the only means we have of testing the authenticity of anything. It is what science is based on and I assume science is authentic, because it makes common sense and one can prove it. All things that are mentioned by lots of you, like logic doesn't define one's being, that things like beauty and music etc also defines life blah blah blah. According to me, even that can be reasoned by logic, we listen to music, because it stimulates our brainwaves, helps our brain to relax, acts as a stimulant etc. Love can also be explained. If we didn't love people around us, we wouldn't care what happened to them, we wouldn't feel protective towards them. Maybe we have realized that we need other people to survive and to multiply, and that we have evolved the ability to love as a protective measure. And that to me, makes SENSE. Love also makes sense in the sense that it is a godly attribute, instilled in us by a higher power. But then that higher power also has to be making SENSE for that to be true. And that is what I am having trouble with.
It seems that some people do not understand the difference between Logic and Religion".
Logic is a set of rules introduced by Aristotle, used to establish the validity of an argument. It is essentially a tool used to determine whether or not the conclusion of an argument can be deduced from its premises (deductive reasoning). Logic, itself, makes no assertions or claims.
Religion, on the other hand, is a set of beliefs or claims, usually based upon some enlightened or "divine" words from a prophet or god. It is usually an organized movement maintained by a hierarchy of authority figures. Its dogma is usually considered beyond critique or refutation.
Religion proclaims truth, while Logic investigates it. Religion is about following your heart; Logic is about using your head. They have nothing in common.They have nothing to do with one another. Period.
There are times when following your heart is the way to go, and times when using your head is advisable. The trick is to know which body part to employ under which circumstances. Art and music, for example, are only two of many wonderful experiences that belong to the domain of the human heart. They do not admit of formal logical inquiry. They are simply to be taken in and enjoyed. In contrast, sales pitches, hypotheses, accusations, and recommendations are examples of things that do require rational thinking to determine a resolution or a proper course of action.
What about religion? Does it fall under the domain of the mind or the heart? The tempting answer is to say "both". But I would advise caution before replying too hastily. Religion, like art and music, can indeed provide a certain amount of pleasure to the senses (euphoria to some). But religion is not an experience, itself. It is a set of propositions offered as "truth" or "the way" to live our lives. Determining the validity of these inspired propositions is clearly not a job for the ill equipped heart, though religions implore us to take this "blind leap". It is left to the intellect to scrutinize the validity of religious assertions and determine a verdict.
The quest for truth is not only noble, it is courageous. Atheist are willing to sacrifice the comforting belief in an afterlife of bliss in favour of a tidbit of truth. Yet so often we are scorned or pitied by the religious as narrow-minded, or too rational for our own good. I think it is interesting that our commitment to employ reason to uncover truthno matter what may be revealed, pleasant or notis itself a conscious rational decision. And it is this one all-important decision, the decision to use the mind to uncover the mysteries of our world, that accounts for the all the benefits in medicine, technology, for example, that we enjoy as a result. Religion, as history attests, is the arch enemy of science, free thinking, and open inquiryof "logic". Reason and Religion are like oil and water.
Logic is a set of rules introduced by Aristotle, used to establish the validity of an argument. It is essentially a tool used to determine whether or not the conclusion of an argument can be deduced from its premises (deductive reasoning). Logic, itself, makes no assertions or claims.
Religion, on the other hand, is a set of beliefs or claims, usually based upon some enlightened or "divine" words from a prophet or god. It is usually an organized movement maintained by a hierarchy of authority figures. Its dogma is usually considered beyond critique or refutation.
Religion proclaims truth, while Logic investigates it. Religion is about following your heart; Logic is about using your head. They have nothing in common.They have nothing to do with one another. Period.
There are times when following your heart is the way to go, and times when using your head is advisable. The trick is to know which body part to employ under which circumstances. Art and music, for example, are only two of many wonderful experiences that belong to the domain of the human heart. They do not admit of formal logical inquiry. They are simply to be taken in and enjoyed. In contrast, sales pitches, hypotheses, accusations, and recommendations are examples of things that do require rational thinking to determine a resolution or a proper course of action.
What about religion? Does it fall under the domain of the mind or the heart? The tempting answer is to say "both". But I would advise caution before replying too hastily. Religion, like art and music, can indeed provide a certain amount of pleasure to the senses (euphoria to some). But religion is not an experience, itself. It is a set of propositions offered as "truth" or "the way" to live our lives. Determining the validity of these inspired propositions is clearly not a job for the ill equipped heart, though religions implore us to take this "blind leap". It is left to the intellect to scrutinize the validity of religious assertions and determine a verdict.
The quest for truth is not only noble, it is courageous. Atheist are willing to sacrifice the comforting belief in an afterlife of bliss in favour of a tidbit of truth. Yet so often we are scorned or pitied by the religious as narrow-minded, or too rational for our own good. I think it is interesting that our commitment to employ reason to uncover truthno matter what may be revealed, pleasant or notis itself a conscious rational decision. And it is this one all-important decision, the decision to use the mind to uncover the mysteries of our world, that accounts for the all the benefits in medicine, technology, for example, that we enjoy as a result. Religion, as history attests, is the arch enemy of science, free thinking, and open inquiryof "logic". Reason and Religion are like oil and water.