Living off the grid. Legal or illegal?

[Revoltingest]

They really have regulations like that? It sounds like the kind of thing that homeowners associations would impose, but not governments. But I could be wrong about that.

They really exist in government.
Of course, homeowner associations micro-regulate even more.
My town (Ann Arbor, MI) is worse than most. In addition to the
usual BOCA, it also has its a housing code, & a powerful
hysterical historical commission.
On top of that, they treat building permit fees as a profit center,
charging fees far above administrative costs.

They might as well regulate whether the toilet paper roll should be over or under.

Shhhhhhh!
Don't give'm ideas.
I was once ordered to move a tenant's bed from one
side of the room to the other because of the shape of
the room. We're also required to monitor tenants'
family relationship with each other to ensure zoning
compliance, and which rooms they sleep in.
This is all based upon things I've been cited for.

 

[bobhikes]

Its an attractive alternative no doubt. Provide your own electricity and water. But there seems to be a catch. You can't do it.

Off Grid Living is Illegal! Sort of... - Off Grid World

Woman Jailed For Living Off The Grid - Robin's Story Continues

It seems living off the grid on a permanent basis is in general illegal and the government will likely come after you for it at some point citing regulatory requirements or whatever laws dictate that you cannot be allowed to live severed from the grid yet you can camp off the grid on a temporary basis.

I think people ought to have the right to live a life of self sufficiency without penalty or interference and some who do are already at risk of being fined or jailed.

Thoughts?

I doubt anyone living off grid is going to try it in a suburb or city. All you need is to do a little research and there are plenty of places across the US where it is not illegal. That article was reaching quite a bit.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah its always "over" until you find yourself the poor schmuck who has a concrete office building put up to block your view of the mountains.

Such extreme examples are always the justification
for the most ridiculous micro-regulation.

 

[Revoltingest]

Its a shame you would have to seek to live in the wilderness for that.

As we see, apologists for high fees & micro-regulation
are out in force defending the status quo.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If that was the case then she could have installed filtration systems and septic systems with an agreement on maintaining compliance.

It seems the onus is the demand for her to hook back up to municipal systems or else.

You say that as if this is a new idea that governments are just finding out about.

The whole reason that many insist that homes switch over from private wells and septic systems once the services are there is because these governments have plenty of experience dealing with the problems that these private systems cause.

 

[MNoBody]

"lawful" and "legal" are 2 separate species of matters.

 

[Father Heathen]

Are people actually confused by why going off the grid within a city would be problematic?

 

[Stevicus]

They really exist in government.
Of course, homeowner associations micro-regulate even more.
My town (Ann Arbor, MI) is worse than most. In addition to the
usual BOCA, it also has its a housing code, & a powerful
hysterical historical commission.
On top of that, they treat building permit fees as a profit center,
charging fees far above administrative costs.

I had to look up "BOCA." The first link that came up was "BOCA Tacos Y Tequila." The acronym is also used for the Bloque Obrero Comunista de Andalucía, but I think it must be this:

• BOCA National Property Maintenance Code, a publication created by the Building Officials Code Administrators International (BOCA). See International Building Code

Wouldn't the national code be sufficient?

Local governments seem to be hotbeds of corruption, but it also seems to be the hardest to deal with.

Shhhhhhh!
Don't give'm ideas.
I was once ordered to move a tenant's bed from one
side of the room to the other because of the shape of
the room. We're also required to monitor tenants'
family relationship with each other to ensure zoning
compliance, and which rooms they sleep in.
This is all based upon things I've been cited for.

This seems as if it would also impede on the tenants' rights. Can't the tenant decide where they want to place their own bed? Or even if they want a bed at all? Maybe they want to sleep on a bed of nails. Could the state deny them that right?

How do they enforce this anyway? How can they know where the bed is placed or determine who is sleeping in which room, unless they have someone going around peeping into people's bedrooms?

They would have totally ruined the plot of Three's Company.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

How do they enforce this anyway? How can they know where the bed is placed or determine who is sleeping in which room, unless they have someone going around peeping into people's bedrooms?

They would have totally ruined the plot of Three's Company.

It's weird to me that this is still a thing in the US. In Canada, zoning based on family relationships was struck down by the courts in a Charter challenge based on the right to privacy. Since similar rights exist in US law (as noted in Roe v. Wade, for instance), I'm surprised that there hasn't been a successful challenge to the US zoning rules yet.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

And free of over-regulation, eg, what kind of front door is allowed,
color of paint allowed, which side of a bedroom can have a bed, etc.
Those are all things I've run into as a homeowner & landlord.

Some, oftentimes many, of those arise not from the actual zoning, but by restrictive covenants installed by the developer and continued in force by the homeowners association.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

But much regulation isn't so justifiable, eg, banning wind turbines
as unsightly. My town hits owners who install photovoltaics with
huge property tax increases. (Fortunately for me, I'm outside their
jurisdiction.) Zoning laws, housing codes, building codes do
similar things which unnecessarily boost energy usage.

"Full employment for contractors and local utilities"

 

[Twilight Hue]

Sure, I can understand that. America also has a certain heritage of pioneers, frontiersmen, etc., which some people might be trying to recapture to some extent.

I can respect that. Not for everyone, but can be a good life.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

"Full employment for contractors and local utilities"

Are you kidding? Do you think septic systems, solar panels and battery banks, or rainwater collection and treatment systems appear by magic?

If you're doing it properly, there's a lot more contractor work involved in living "off the grid" than there is in just hooking up to utilities like normal.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

building codes are also now heavily influenced by the insurance industry: places that follow their preferences in building regulation get better insurance rates than do places with lessor or entirely without regulation.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Are you kidding? Do you think septic systems, solar panels and battery banks, or rainwater collection and treatment systems appear by magic?

If you're doing it properly, there's a lot more contractor work involved in living "off the grid" than there is in just hooking up to utilities like normal.

Either way, contractors benefit.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Its an attractive alternative no doubt. Provide your own electricity and water. But there seems to be a catch. You can't do it.

Off Grid Living is Illegal! Sort of... - Off Grid World

Woman Jailed For Living Off The Grid - Robin's Story Continues

It seems living off the grid on a permanent basis is in general illegal and the government will likely come after you for it at some point citing regulatory requirements or whatever laws dictate that you cannot be allowed to live severed from the grid yet you can camp off the grid on a temporary basis.

I think people ought to have the right to live a life of self sufficiency without penalty or interference and some who do are already at risk of being fined or jailed.

Thoughts?

That is a common myth that it's illegal.
How to Live Off Grid Legally in the United States

How to legally live off grid in the United States. Living off grid legally is possible in the United States. However, you will encounter a wide variety of local, county, and state laws that regulate aspects of what you are able to do on your property.

https://www.thesmartsurvivalist.com/living-off-the-grid-in-the-usa-is-it-illegal/

Is it illegal to live off the grid in the United States of America? The brief answer is that it’s completely legal. As a matter of fact, several states encourage to live off the grid. Nonetheless, you must follow local building codes and tax laws. Furthermore, you must have your own address. ??

https://www.askaprepper.com/is-it-legal-to-go-off-the-grid-in-your-state/

Living off grid is not illegal in any of the 50 states

• Urban areas almost always have the most stringent restrictions in regards to off grid living.
• Affluent suburban areas, especially those with homeowners associations, also often boast prohibitive off grid living regulations.
• Even some small towns have now placed regulations on common off grid activities, especially when it comes to disconnecting from the power grid and sanitary sewer systems.
• Life can always be lived the most free out in the country. Laws in unincorporated areas in counties tend to be the most advantageous to off grid living fans. Many rural counties throughout the country do not have any zoning laws at all, outside of health department septic installation rules.

 

[exchemist]

Some, oftentimes many, of those arise not from the actual zoning, but by restrictive covenants installed by the developer and continued in force by the homeowners association.

Slightly off-topic, but this reminds me that the previous house I owned, in Putney in SW London, built in 1901, had a restrictive covenant in the deeds whereby I was forbidden to erect a "steam roundabout" on the land.

I thought it was rather a charming insight into the concerns people had at that time. As a matter of fact there is a nomadic fair that periodically erects roundabouts and rides (not steam-powered these days) on Putney Common about half a mile away.

 

[Tambourine]

But no one today can do what Jeremiah Johnson did. All the land is pretty well spoken for. In the West, most of it is under Federal jurisdiction in one form or another.

It was pretty well spoken for back then as well. The US government stole Native land specifically so it could be given away to White colonists. That's one of the reasons why so much US real estate is federally owned or state property.

In Austria for example, most land is privately owned, with the exceptions of national parks and forests (though a significant portion of forests are privately owned as well).

 

[Revoltingest]

I had to look up "BOCA." The first link that came up was "BOCA Tacos Y Tequila." The acronym is also used for the Bloque Obrero Comunista de Andalucía, but I think it must be this:

• BOCA National Property Maintenance Code, a publication created by the Building Officials Code Administrators International (BOCA). See International Building Code

Wouldn't the national code be sufficient?

BOCA has one code for new structures, & one for existing ones.
States & localities needn't adopt the newest.
Add to this local zoning & housing ordinances.
And then there are enforcement cultures that
vary in degree of cooperation & competence.

Local governments seem to be hotbeds of corruption, but it also seems to be the hardest to deal with.

Corruption isn't the real problem.
Politics is....government likes wielding power.

This seems as if it would also impede on the tenants' rights. Can't the tenant decide where they want to place their own bed? Or even if they want a bed at all? Maybe they want to sleep on a bed of nails. Could the state deny them that right?

How do they enforce this anyway? How can they know where the bed is placed or determine who is sleeping in which room, unless they have someone going around peeping into people's bedrooms?

The city conducts housing inspections every couple years.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some, oftentimes many, of those arise not from the actual zoning, but by restrictive covenants installed by the developer and continued in force by the homeowners association.

I'm aware of those too.
But the one's I mentioned were of governmental origin.
Condos I've managed would have rules regarding things
like prohibiting drying towels on one's railing, & no running
at the pool.