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Living in Illusion

Discussion in 'Monism' started by The Sum of Awe, Mar 9, 2015.

  1. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    I am curious how others who disagree me view the world. I'd like to share my line of thought that brings me to this conclusion. The conclusion: There is only one thing existing, the rest is illusion.

    Before you were born, there wasn't a 'you' in the way that you see yourself as an individual. There was no concept of you, there was no form for you, the elements that make up the currently existing you were scattered across existence, separated and not together as they are now. 'You' were still in transition, and throughout time the elements that make up you were used to make up a countless number of illusions, but the 'you' was still in the stream of existence, disillusionment.

    You are now formed and you are the life resulting from the combination of all of these elements. You see yourself as separate from nature, whether or not you are aware of this being an illusion, you will always be bounded by this illusion as long as you have perception.

    The meaning to your existence? Only you can find out. It's not how many think it would be. You weren't created and assigned a role that you have to live up to as destiny, instead the meaning of your life is active, seemingly coming about naturally, but I do believe natural occurrences are God's (the universe) will. Everything that happens is. Regardless of your view on God, though, the point I'm trying to get at is that you fulfill the meaning of life without even noticing it. The way your existence impacts all other parts of the universe IS your meaning of life.

    In truth you are still in transition (God's will), but the illusion makes you appear separate as an individual. It's at your level that you perceive the world, from your perspective you do not notice all of the effects your existence brings to the world around you. It isn't only limited to all things 20 feet around you, you actually influence every other part of reality, even beyond the milky way galaxy. Your existence is like a string surrounded by many strings, and your vibration makes them vibrate too.

    The nature of all physical things is imperfect, finite, impermanent, and bounded. Unlike spirituality, where freewill is complete, the actions you take in the physical reality are determined by cause and effect. Physical things have no freewill for two reasons; it's illusion, and it's "less real" (can't think of the word I'm looking for). The spiritual existence is free, and no freewill can contradict other freewill. In this spiritual existence you are once again disillusioned much like before you were born, but at the same time it was different you have existed once, and so your abstract self remains while the meatsuit decays. This is disillusionment because you don't experience individuality, you experience the true reality; the God consciousness, or mono-conscious. (Perhaps conscious isn't the right word, but it is a lot less confusing than saying 'life'.) You are once again hole, but you never were separate, you just couldn't find yourself yet.

    Since physical reality is illusion, nothing is permanent. Our illusion makes us assign objects as separate things. So it's not really the physical reality that is impermanent, it's the illusion. Nothing disappears in physical reality, just rearranges, but to your perception it is impermanent.

    We are all One Soul, all one physical body, and thus all One Reality, One Being.

    This illusion will stick as long as you're in the physical reality. The problem is that most people aren't directly aware of spiritual existence, all they know is the physical world. It is very hard to let go, but until you do detach yourself from physical reality, you're stuck to it. Which is unfortunate, these people who can't let go are too attached to this existence, and this existence is very unattractive compared to the spiritual world.

    Once you have detached yourself from the physical world, you can control it better, and eventually give up the desire to stay and move on into the perfect world of spiritual. You then not only comprehend the idea of returning to God, you actually became aware of the oneness.

    Now i'm not asking you to believe all of that, I'm just essentially arguing that detachment is proven to lead to a life with little burden. Detaching yourself from little things and being happy with what you got makes one see reality a lot more beautifully. Now imagine detaching yourself from all things physical.

    The universe undergoes a process that leads all things to the point they need to go, and "destroys" them when they are no longer needed. (destroyed from our perspective, rearranging from beyond). This process is cause and effect, and that's what controls all things.

    Your body may die, but you will live on through the meaning you accomplished in life (the effects you brought upon reality). It's all just in transition, and realize you are this transition. Whether or not you agree that this transition is some sort of conscious will, the transition is observable. It is observable that you are part of it. And from that I draw the conclusion that you ARE the transition. You are the universe.

    I shared my reasoning, time to hear your's. What is it that makes you believe we are not one? How can you look at the interdependence of this universe and still think all things are separate?
     
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  2. Laika

    Laika Well-Known Member
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    consciousness is the illusion rather than the spiritual world. The physical world is what is real; whilst we are limited by it, these limits are not absolute but as a transitional as the world itself. Freedom is a question of degrees, strive for and achieved over a lifetime, but always within the constraints of our physical being. We are both cause and effect; beginning and end.
    Our separateness is an illusion created by introspection and consciousness; it is by letting go of the consciousness of the self, our egotism that we come to realize our connection to the world. ego is an illusion created by the false belief that we 'own' ourselves, and the illusion of control and choice that comes with it. When we come to accept that we can never fully control our own destiny, we must live in harmony as best we can with our surroundings whilst striving to realize our uniqueness. The distinction between the self and others is blurred and occasionally we feel it as one.

    We live in a shared space, a shared time and have yet to recognize our shared humanity; even if we share the same origin in birth and the same destination in death. We are one, but we are not equal; we are the universe expressing itself and each unique in our own way- since our physical limits mean our lives can never be repeated, nor can anyone fill our shoes. The uniqueness of our experience is the basis for individuality whilst the world we live in, is as one. no moment we live will ever be repeated.
     
  3. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    I've noticed one universal truth on RF:
    Every poster grasps reality perfectly, but anyone who disagrees is deluded.
    So I've decided that my delusions aren't "true", but I just prefer them to other people's delusions.
    Beware fools who sanctimoniously fling poop at us for our delusions.
    They don't understand how knowing others' is interesting, & can improve our own.
     
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  4. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Pretty much agree except I'm not sure the illusion exists before I was in it.
     
  5. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    I'm approaching this from a polytheist p.o.v.

    I used to believe, or wanted to believe, that everything is one. Like the Changelings of Deep Space 9 who are one mass but take different forms. Or like the opening words of I Am The Walrus: "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together...". That just doesn't sit well with me. Yes, we all have a divine spark, as does all of creation, because we were created divinely (by Odin and/or Rig aka Heimdallr). But we have individual souls, which actually have several parts. This article, especially the last paragraph (I know people hate to read links) explains it pretty well Monism and Polytheism | Sarenth Odinsson's Blog

     
  6. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    Illusions exist.
     
  7. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Your illusions did not exist. The others were under illusion.
    Yes, they very much seem to.
    Enjoy while they last.
     
  8. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    How can you be sure? Maybe they're just a part of your illusion.
     
  9. Baladas

    Baladas An Págánach

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    I agree that separation is an illusion. We are One Being, One Reality. We are cells in the same Body, bacteria on the same rocks. Everything is Divine.
    Detachment is certainly beneficial in my eyes, at least to some extent. I seek to live in detachment from anything that distracts me too much from my meditations.

    This is almost EXACTLY what I was attempting to say in our last conversation regarding life after death, @George-ananda !

    I am somewhat amazed at how similar our perceptions are on this, Sum.

    I am not sure that I believe in determinism though. I am not entirely sure that the Divine has a purpose for us, any more than we do for our cells.
    I would like to be wrong though...

    Good thoughts! :)
     
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  10. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    If I understand you correctly, I think we basically agree; we leave the illusion and return to Wholeness/Brahman. But I believe this return to wholeness almost never happens in one lifetime and individuality continues for more lifetimes. Eventually we all return.
     
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  11. Baladas

    Baladas An Págánach

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  12. Kolibri

    Kolibri Well-Known Member

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    I was reading in the book of Jeremiah today that the people of his time were told they were living in a state of delusion.

    "How long will this continue in the heart of the prophets, to prophesy lies? They are prophets of the deceit of their own heart." - Jeremiah 23:26

    But as regards to monoism, while I agree that we are part of ecosystems both physical and energetic, life can go on without "me". No specific human "I" is required to exist, My sense of free will allows me to go with the flow or against it as I choose. I subscribe to a unique sense of self. But I do realize that as I change, those around me will adjust or there will be stress-conflict. I see these adjustments in the ecosystems I am aware of everyday.
     
    #12 Kolibri, Mar 9, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
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  13. frangipani

    frangipani Member
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    This illusion will stick as long as you're in the physical reality. The problem is that most people aren't directly aware of spiritual existence, all they know is the physical world. It is very hard to let go, but until you do detach yourself from physical reality, you're stuck to it. Which is unfortunate, these people who can't let go are too attached to this existence, and this existence is very unattractive compared to the spiritual world.

    Once you have detached yourself from the physical world, you can control it better, and eventually give up the desire to stay and move on into the perfect world of spiritual. You then not only comprehend the idea of returning to God, you actually became aware of the oneness. (Quote)

    I agree with this and my immediate thought was from Ecclesiastes in the Old Testament, after the Preacher has said, in a nutshell, all in the world is vanity and vexation of spirit, he says chapter 12, verse 13; 'Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments: For this is the whole duty of man'.
    While this may well relate to the Creator God of the earth and not the Ineffable Father of Christ, it still applies in the Christian sense, because Jesus said, the greatest commandments of all are to love God most of all and to love your neighbour as yourself, on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. To heed this advice we must look inwardly at the Christ Spirit and become one with the Spirit.
     
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  14. Bunyip

    Bunyip pro scapegoat

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    Well sure, I did not exist before I existed - that seems pretty straight forward. But then you say; "the 'you' was still in the stream of existence, disillusionment" - I am sorry to say that I have no idea whatsoever what you mean by that.
    Well, no - not at all. I am a part of nature, not seperate from it.
    What illusion? If you mean that I am separate from nature - then it is not an illusion I hold.
    I don't get it. I am an individual - that is not an illusion.
    What is illusion? Freewill is not an illusion - it is a philosophical concept.
    How can a person be disillusioned before they existed? That is absurd.
    Hang on! How did you get to there? Physical reality is reality, not illusion.
    Objects can be separate things, that is a fact - not an illusion.
    Detaching from all things physical? You mean dying?
    You seem to be inventing a rather nonsensical position and ascribing it to others, then questioning why they hold the position you invented for them. 'Things' are separate and at the same time part of a greater whole.
     
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  15. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Since maya is an accompaniment of Brahman (What Exists), all invariably are under illusions, unless they understand how maya (illusion) arises.
     
    #15 Aupmanyav, Mar 10, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  16. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    I think I understand what you're saying, but could you expand the thought?
     
  17. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    This is my personal view and I do not speak for all Hindus. Now what constitutes all things in the universe - physical energy. We started with a ball of energy. Then came the elementary particles, atoms, and molecules. Then came the archaea, prokaryotes and viruses, and other forms of life. Some 700 million years ago, living beings developed ganglions and brain, which turned out to be the blessing and the curse of Humans. The brain creates patterns and makes us see what is not actually there. Till we understand this, we will remain enveloped by 'maya'. I am an atheist Hindu and follow 'advaita' (non-duality).
     
    #17 Aupmanyav, Mar 10, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2015
  18. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein I'm not deaf, I'm just a real bad listener
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    I have a somewhat different view of this than you, Sum. You seem to view it as we're all one sort of "hive soul" and that the physical world is illusion. I see the physical world as just as real as all other realms. It's just another realm among a possibly infinite number. As for "us", I view it as being that we are expressions or manifestations of the Infinite, including our bodies and the realm we inhabit. We're like a bunch of cameras connected to the same system, viewing things from slightly different angles but there's an ultimate unity that we may consciously join ourselves to and, from this unity, experience liberation from all ignorance, limitations and boundaries. There is no such thing as separation from God since God is immanent in all things. God is beyond all and within all. In truth, Maya (illusion) is that we are separate and limited when the truth is that we are God ourselves and contain all universes, powers and possibilities within ourselves. Duality is a rotten fruit of ignorance.
     
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  19. Baladas

    Baladas An Págánach

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    This is even more exact in it's closeness to my view. I too view the physical world as very real. It is not an illusion in my eyes. As you said, separation is the illusion.
     
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  20. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein I'm not deaf, I'm just a real bad listener
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    Awesome. To me, "real" and "unreal" is just another false duality. To me, all things are real. I'm sure you could say all things are unreal but I have no idea how that would work. Lol.

    Another idea that irks me, which you addressed in a post above, is that we're not individuals. My view is that we may all be God and, therefore, one in that respect, but we are God manifesting as individual points of perception. I will never have someone or something else's perception, history and all the other things that make that person unique and neither will anyone or anything have mine. I don't believe we lose this individuality, either. Saying that we will "merge" into God or whatever is just positing another duality that we were ever apart from God in the first place!
     
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