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Light barrier possibly broken.

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Photonic, Sep 22, 2011.

  1. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    I'm not sure how relevent this is to science vs religion but here goes nothing.

    Scientists at CERN recorded neutrinos traveling 60 nanoseconds faster than they should have been.





    They were already traveling at the speed of light.

    UPDATE 1-Particles found to break speed of light | Reuters



    They are not making assumptions at this time, they are doing a period of peer review upon which the discovery of the data will be announced to the global scientific community.
     
    #1 Photonic, Sep 22, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  2. Gjallarhorn

    Gjallarhorn N'yog-Sothep

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    Paradigm shifts...tingly.
     
  3. PolyHedral

    PolyHedral Superabacus Mystic

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    Neutrinos are massive particles; they do not travel at the speed of light.
     
  4. strikeviperMKII

    strikeviperMKII Well-Known Member

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    Gah! Somebody divided by zero!

    Seriously though...this could be big. And just to point out, it is Einstein's theory of relativity that will be affected. The light speed barrier is not a law, and never has been. So the theory is wrong, not any laws of physics. The article misuses the terms, like a lot of other people do.
     
  5. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    Erm, these ones were. Well...SHOULD have been. I'm not talking about naturally occurring neutrino radiation. Neither are they.


    Also... near massive. :)
     
  6. blackout

    blackout Violet.

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    Well for God's sake, SOMEBODY fix it!




    yeah... I know......
     
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  7. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    From the article

    "GENEVA, Sept 22 (Reuters) - An international team of scientists said on Thursday they had recorded sub-atomic particles travelling faster than light -- a finding that could overturn one of Einstein's long-accepted fundamental laws of the universe.

    Antonio Ereditato, spokesman for the researchers, told Reuters that measurements taken over three years showed neutrinos pumped from CERN near Geneva to Gran Sasso in Italy had arrived 60 nanoseconds quicker than light would have done.

    If confirmed, the discovery would undermine Albert Einstein's 1905 theory of special relativity, which says that the speed of light is a "cosmic constant" and that nothing in the universe can travel faster.
    "We have high confidence in our results. We have checked and rechecked for anything that could have distorted our measurements but we found nothing," he said. "We now want colleagues to check them independently."
    That assertion, which has withstood over a century of testing, is one of the key elements of the so-called Standard Model of physics, which attempts to describe the way the universe and everything in it works."

    Evidence to the contrary.
     
    #7 Skwim, Sep 22, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  8. angellous_evangellous

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    If so, it seems like long distance space travel - even if it's just a message to a distant star - would be possible.

    Also time travel.

    But I don't think that they did it.
     
  9. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    We'll hold off on saying they did it or not until AFTER they confirm it with follow up experimentation and peer review.

    Given that this would break the functioning of the theory of relativity in this manner, time travel may still not be possible backwards, as we are not sure if it would still apply.
     
  10. angellous_evangellous

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    Yes, I didn't think that it would be possible backwards - and to be fair - I didn't say that.

    You can hold off on saying whatever you wish - and I'll say whatever I wish.

    I don't think that they did it. If I see proof otherwise, I'd be delighted, but for now I think that my skepticism is justified.
     
  11. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    True, you did say Time Travel. But time travel already exists forwards, and we actually have a world record for the person who has traveled the furthest into the future.
     
  12. blackout

    blackout Violet.

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    If the "Theory of Relativity" turns out to be wrong,
    does that mean that it was a lowercase 'theory'
    instead of an Uppercase "scientific theory"?

    I don't understand this.
    If a scientific theory is seen/catagorized as a fact,
    but then it later turns out to be incorrect....

    Is 'The' "Theory of Relativity",
    then demoted to 'a' "theory of Relativity"?
    (or was it simply 'Einstien's theory' all along?)
     
    #12 blackout, Sep 23, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2011
  13. ManTimeForgot

    ManTimeForgot Temporally Challenged

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    We don't actually have to immediately assume that something which traverses distance faster than light is actually traveling faster than light. We are already aware of multiple instances of FTL events. Phase velocities, quantum tunneling over short distances, etc.

    This is indeed a novel phenomena because it happens over what seems to be a non-quantum distance. I was just talking with my dad about this not too long ago, and he laughed when the article he was reading pointed out that "peer review was necessary as most scientists think that this is experimenter error." To which both he and I say... well duh. 60 nanoseconds is well beyond a statistically significant value; the only question now is to establish whether or not this is a result of error in judgment or measurement OR if it is a real effect.


    With that said I would really like it if Neutrinos were capable of utilizing quantum wormholes and could just say nuts to the speed of light whenever they felt like it.

    MTF
     
  14. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    Either possibility opens up something entirely amazing. Remember that the experiment turned up values 6 times outside of the acceptable values.
     
  15. lunakilo

    lunakilo Well-Known Member

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  16. jarofthoughts

    jarofthoughts Empirical Curmudgeon

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  17. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    I finished reading it half an hour ago and it's a good working explanation of the internal process and measurement techniques.

    (I understood every bit of it. <3)
     
  18. Photonic

    Photonic Ad astra!

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    "The BCT consists of toroidal transformers coaxial to the proton beam providing a
    signal proportional to the beam current instantaneously transiting through it, with a few hundred
    MHz bandwidth."

    Lol'ed.

    Looks like they aren't sure of their theory of how magnetic fields are generated.
    Seems like they almost implying protons can generate their own variable magnetic field.
     
  19. angellous_evangellous

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    That had to have been a guy in a plane or space shuttle. Perhaps maybe some fraction of a second?

    I mean, and as I said, long distance space travel [faster than our experience of time]. Like somehow shooting this particle into space with maybe a message on it.
     
  20. jarofthoughts

    jarofthoughts Empirical Curmudgeon

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    Not to start a debate on the subject, but this case is a classic example of the Scientific Method in action.
    First you have these highly qualified and experienced physicists at CERN who have made some strange measurements, and after throwing everything at the wall trying to make sense of it all they publish their results for everyone to see with the added comment "Please pick this apart for us and show us where we went wrong", which is exactly what hundreds of scientists around the globe are currently busying themselves with. :D
     
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