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Featured Life's real test

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by idea, Jan 24, 2018.

  1. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    It has been said that life is a test to prove your character, some say this test will determine what level of power you are given in the hereafter. (Those whose character is exemplary are given greater responsibility - become gods to look over and take care of other weaker spirits)

    If you were to design a test for your spiritual children, what would that test include?


    Just one thought - the test might include seeing if your children are able to think and act for themselves:
    • Would they be able to stand up to an authority figure if that authority figure was commanding them to do something that was not correct?
    ↑ If that is one of the items on our test, it would make sense that a few of the commandments in the scriptures are actually commanding us to do something that is not correct... as a test to see if we can think and act for ourselves or not.... dangerous ground to go on? Example, command us to explude LGBTQ, or suggest that our religious group is correct and better than all other religious groups, or _______________ fill in the blank with all the religious beliefs that seem to not be quite loving or just.
     
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  2. Tmac

    Tmac Active Member

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    Don't you think believing in something like this is the reason behind some of the contrary behavior we are witnessing?
     
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  3. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    How would you test someone's ability to think and act correctly for themselves? To make sure they refuse to follow evil designs, no matter what? Is allegiance to authority - god - more important, or aligiance to principles -goodness- more important?
     
  4. Tmac

    Tmac Active Member

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    Is not the freedom taken from life when the parent has expectations. It is the parents responsibility to manifest their beliefs and if the offspring finds them attractive then so be it and they will build upon it as if it was theirs.
     
  5. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    Expectations - or just how to best deal with the laws of the universe? Personal beliefs - or best way to handle diversity? If my children do not like the same flavor of ice cream as I do?

    G-d is both a parent, and a teacher - one who evaluates, and administers tests... In His role as one who tests, what do you think the test should be?

    Test where parents allow children to be tested by seeing if they will follow an authority figure (another adult) or not.
     
    #5 idea, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  6. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    I don't feel that character needs to be proven - character is. Everybody has character, and most beautifully, everyone has different character. I would never want to devalue that diversity by imposing some sort of standardized test. Each character has their own role to play within the story. I am not interested in supposing that some particular sort of character is more deserving of merit - they are all worthy. The only sort of "test" I could see myself making would be an assessment of what is.
     
  7. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
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    Special pleading.
     
  8. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    The flaw in this test, imo, is that everything you have based the test on is subjective. One person's offended sensibility may be another person's norm; you may not be able to change that perception. I believe that a more definitive test is my idea that when you die you stand before a committee and they ask you one question: "Did you learn anything?". Your answer determines what you next life will be. If you can impart into your children this idea they would look at the world differently. Again, this is just my take on it...
     
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  9. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    So you would bestow an equal amount of power upon all if you had that ability? What if one person chose to use that power to destroy, while another to build? ... would eternal struggle and war exist in that kind of scenario?

    Some equally reverence all life, would you force everyone to equally hold all life to the same value? But then you would be imposing your own views...

    Assessment of what is - the more we know of others, hopefully the more we come to love them... but if that did not turn out to be the case, How would you teach everyone to equally respect and love one another? Would that be a good goal?
     
  10. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    Eternal life vs. eternal death. Living things learn and grow, while death is the result of not progressing.

    So in your opinion, the most beautiful heaven would be one of wisdom and knowledge? Others define the highest goal as being one of love and unity with others. I guess in order to define the best test, the ultimate goal must also be defined.
     
  11. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    I find it interesting that you imply that "following God" and "following goodness" are incompatible enough that a person can't follow both.
     
  12. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    I think you've missed the point, or I wasn't clear. BTW, your statement about heaven sort of illuminates my point: most everything conceive in the mind is subjective.
     
  13. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Hi, idea. I don't know if you've ever paid any attention to my signature before, but check it out:

    "The individual has always had to struggle from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."

    I do feel like I own myself, which is why I have taken a firm stand in favor of LGBT rights. It's why I march with "Mormons Building Bridges" in support of my LGBT brothers and sisters every year in Salt Lake City's pride parade. It's why when people talk about the pre-1978 Priesthood ban and call it "racist," I do not stand up in support of Brigham Young, who instituted the policy or of any of his successors who did nothing to change it. I acknowledge that it was a racist policy, because that's what my conscience tells me it was. I absolutely loved the last bishop I had (the one just before the present bishop). He once said in Sacrament Meeting (I think it was on Fast Sunday when he opened the time for testimony bearing), "Your salvation is between you and the Lord. It's not between you and your bishop, you and your stake president or you and the President of the Church. It's between you and the Lord. Period. Remember that." I always have, and it has influenced many of my decisions.

    So, the bottom line for me is that if I were to formulate a test such as the one you described, I would judge the participants based on their integrity. Did they do what they genuinely believed was right, or did they rely on others to give them instructions and make sure they followed them precisely?
     
    #13 Katzpur, Jan 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
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  14. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Well there you go "don't you think" Is the problem. Last I checked our thinking is irrelevant and subservient to nature subject subjective to nature. It does not determine evolution evolution nature cosmos God all the same dang thing. Nature existed before Websters math PhDs religious forum.
     
  15. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Excellent video and it makes your point very well.
     
  16. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I think life's real test and only test is whether we will believe God our Creator or the liar, Satan.
     
  17. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    That's wonderful Katz. A few LDS sing that "Follow the Leader" song in a rather scary way which is one of the reasons I have drifted away. No organization is perfect, and I do not think it is healthy to be isolated - but it is also not healthy to be overly controlled or attached to anything. I will participate and volunteer in activities I find uplifting / loving / merciful, but my loyalties lie with principles, rather than any single organization. Putting my faith and trust in principles rather than people has helped me find a new anchor to hold onto.

    I think therefore I am? Last I checked, humans have done a half way good job of being at the top of the food chain even though we are not the strongest creatures on the earth - brute strength vs. thoughtful use of tools etc. ... seems brains have won out over brawn.

    As I think about the relationships I have with all the people around me, I find loving someone does not always mean I follow or believe everything they say or do. Friends are more precious to me than managers... Notions of a caste system with untouchables and those born into privilege and wealth does not appeal to me, nor do concepts of heaven/hell/different degrees of glory. I prefer to see everyone and everything as containing both good and evil. Everyone has some talents and things they are good at, and other things they are not so good at. We are all unique, connected, and inter-dependent on one another. If I were able to define Heaven it would be a place where no being rules - instead the principle of love, kindness, and respect ruled. A place where everyone was united in one heart and one mind - equally yoked with one another. No above and below, only togetherness. If there is some sort of caste system with different degrees, I want to be in the middle - not on the top, not on the bottom, in the place where I can be in the midst of the greatest number of other kindred spirits.
     
  18. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    where did the atomic bomb come from ex nihilo? But the nice thing it solves the antropocene epoch.
     
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  19. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    If there is an all-loving creature, that would be great. You are right, I see some incompatible notions on what everyone is teaching about god though. In the eternal scheme of things, when everyone has learned all they can and progressed etc., it seems like heaven would not be a hierarchy though... no king, no subjects, it would be a place where everyone is united with one heart and one mind - and the uniting power would be principles, not beings...

    Does anyone else believe in eternal existence without the need of an eternal hierarchy? eternal heaven/hell/ruler/subjects etc. - just a happy united equally together family? Not forced to be equal, but equal through free will and education - that we will all come to love and respect one another due to actually knowing one another well enough?
     
  20. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I know the song (i.e. if you're thinking of the song, "Follow the Prophet") and I have the same problem with it that you do.

    I agree. I see the Church as my "tribe," but I cannot and will not be controlled by it. I have also come to make a clear distinction between "the Church" and "the Gospel."
     
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