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Life

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Jimmy, Jun 21, 2021.

  1. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Tell me when someone imagines how the scenarios I gave with the NDEs work.
    Doubting Thomas did not believe Jesus rose from the dead till he saw with his own eyes.
    I'll believe the answer when I see it with my own eyes and leave the faith in science to you.
     
  2. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    Well, maybe after they regained consciousness, they got a step stool, took a look at the top of the machine, and then memorized the numbers. Or someone else could have told them.

    Card tricks and magic shows often work the same way, mainly through deception and manipulation. The hand is quicker than the eye, or so they say.

    Here's one to try with some friends: You can claim to be psychic by being able to guess what cities people are thinking of. You leave the room while your confederate stays. The people in the room think of a city, and then call you back in. Your friend will then ask "Is it Chicago? Is it Detroit? Is it Los Angeles?" and so on until you hit upon the correct name of the city. The trick is that, before the game, you and your confederate agree on a set of numbers, such 1-2-3-4, and then the signal would be to listen for a city with two words in it (such as Los Angeles or New York), and then the correct city will be either 1, 2, 3, or 4 cities named after that (or whatever pre-agreed set of numbers worked out between you and your confederate). My brother and I did this at a small gathering, and no one could figure out how we were doing it. After several times, we explained the trick.
     
  3. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    You mean "natural:" of or pertaining to nature. Naturalistic means imitating nature., like a naturalistic painting.
    Could be, but it has an impressive track record, and it's the best we have.
    Exactly! -- though I don't think logic is the proper term.
    This is why scientists assume there is a mechanism to these supposed 'miracles.' The "Hand of God" has been shown over and over to have a natural, chemical or physical explanation.
    By Jove, I think you've got it! :p
    ...or maybe not... :( When is there ever evidence of the supernatural? The appearance of inexplicability is not evidence, and has been found, repeatedly, to be explicable.This is a false dilemma.
    The natural explanations are evidence-based. No faith required. Evidence to the contrary? What evidence would that be? There is no evidence of the supernatural. There is only the unknown.
    But what is this evidence? I know of no evidence of the supernatural.
    Perhaps, in the same way it takes faith to believe the Sun will come up in the morning.
    No such possibility has been shown to exist. Magic has a poor record.
    How are you defining "reasonable?"
    Define "do it." If the mechanism is known to follow the natural laws of physics, what, exactly, did God do? You might claim he decreed these laws, but that's a pretty far remove from 'doing it'.
     
  4. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    O ye of little imagination. ;)
     
  5. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    That's a possibility but probably not pre arranged as nobody would know when they are going to have an NDE, unless that also is pre arranged.
    I guess that could be checked out but I'm not sure how.
    Anyway it is good to see that you seem to be agreeing with me that it would take a conscious person to know the facts of what happened while the NDE person was unconscious and it would not be a normal function of the brain of the person having an NDE.
     
  6. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    O ye of little faith in what people have witnessed and reported. It does not agree with your world view so you dismiss it. That's the human thing to do.
     
  7. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Less times that you probably think. A scientific explanation for something does not actually show that it was not the hand of God that caused it.

    As I said, it does not show that God did not do it.
    However there is evidence for the supernatural which is just dismissed as lies or ignored.

    Sorry I though NDEs with people knowing what has happened while they were unconscious were part of the discussion.

    Believable.

    No it isn't far at all, and in fact it is so close that finding a natural mechanism seems to be a way for atheists to say that God did not do it, that is how close it is.
    But how about when something like the plagues of Egypt are said to be natural, does that mean God did not do it. Or is a lost person is found by someone who had a feeling to look in a certain place. Some believe and others dismiss.
     
  8. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Nor does it rule out the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Interdimensional cosmic mice or Quetzalcoatl, but I'll bet you don't give these serious consideration.
    Reasonable people believe what they have evidence of, and defer belief for anything else til actual evidence shows up.
    Sounds like a promising field for a research project, in that case. But science is hesitant to venture into these fields, since they're so full of religious woo that leads nowhere.
    That may, in fact, be evidence of something, but attributing it to supernatural causes is going pretty far out on a limb.
    Believable = reasonable? I don't think so -- though this might explain your credulity.
    People believe all sorts of incredible things: flat earth, Thor's sun chariot, Poseidon, Færies... Their belief doesn't make the belief reasonable.
    If all God did was decree the laws of the universe, he could have retired to Florida fifteen billion years ago, and let the universe operate all by itself. "Doing it," to me, sounds like some sort of active intervention, of which we have no evidence.
     
  9. Jahia El Ti

    Jahia El Ti Member

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    The Creator's ways are not your ways.
    The Creator's thoughts are not your thoughts.
     
  10. Jahia El Ti

    Jahia El Ti Member

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    God is life
    Life is God.
    Jesus Christ is the Light of Life.
    Hence Jesus is the Son of God.
    The Light of Life.
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  11. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    No, people believe what they want even without evidence.

    Maybe it is more reasonable to attribute it to a group consciousness (as with the Borg in Star Trek).

    As I said, people believe what they want even without evidence. Hence people go beyond the bounds of science and believe the alternatives to the Bible God which speculation provides and which sounds like science, just as a group consciousness in the Borg sounds like science...........in a science fiction show.

    Does there need to be evidence? What sort of evidence? I thought science says nothing about God and here you are saying that it does say something.
     
    #91 Brian2, Jul 22, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  12. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    True, but note the "reasonable."
    If legislation and social codes are influenced by religious belief, it woud be nice if the beliefs reflected reality, as much as can be determined.
     
  13. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Why did you answer your own post, idiot?
     
  14. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    True.
    These days reality seems to be changing, particularly in areas of sexuality.
     
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