1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Life Without Belief

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Nakosis, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    19,379
    Ratings:
    +9,619
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    How do these beliefs benefit you? Or would your life actually be very different if you didn't believe these things?
     
  2. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    19,379
    Ratings:
    +9,619
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    Must one test reality?
     
  3. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2021
    Messages:
    2,646
    Ratings:
    +2,182
    Religion:
    Agnostic Lapsed Catholic

    Good question. With regard to these specific examples, I have no skin in the game; nothing to gain and nothing to lose, but I am curious about the world we all inhabit. And to follow up on that curiosity, demands a degree of faith in those who have gone further and looked deeper than I have. In all sorts of directions.
     
  4. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    12,695
    Ratings:
    +2,540
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    reality isn't necessarily what we believe it to be at all times. so reality is dangerous; when we don't have knowledge and someone watching out for us. so no you don't have to test reality but you need someone/something with knowledge, keeping an eye out for you


     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  5. TheBrokenSoul

    TheBrokenSoul Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2021
    Messages:
    439
    Ratings:
    +92
    Religion:
    notsure
    Any neurological reference frame needs another neurolgical reference frame whether that be knowledge , companionship or just conversation .

    Two heads and four hands is always better than I .
     
  6. cOLTER

    cOLTER Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,716
    Ratings:
    +537
    Religion:
    Disciple
    You don’t have a choice if you want to have thoughts.
     
  7. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    19,379
    Ratings:
    +9,619
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    Well, if we didn't have the belief. :shrug::D

    Our belief in this person our that product gets us into trouble?
     
  8. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    19,379
    Ratings:
    +9,619
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    Well, we are suppose to get rid of our thought too.
    But, is that anyway to go about living?

    We couldn't even have a conversation without the belief that the words I use will be able to properly convey my intended meaning.

    So it'd be a pretty strange life.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    19,379
    Ratings:
    +9,619
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    Yes, I think you are right. I certainly am left to believe the words I type have meaning to you.

    Maybe as a monk taking a vow of silence and cutting myself off from everyone I could avoid having any beliefs.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2021
    Messages:
    2,646
    Ratings:
    +2,182
    Religion:
    Agnostic Lapsed Catholic

    It would be difficult though to sustain a lifestyle like that, without the belief that doing so served some purpose.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  11. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    11,972
    Ratings:
    +7,920
    Religion:
    Love, Light, and Life
    Of course you can't live without belief. If you didn't believe being alive was better than being dead, you'd be dead already. That's living by the belief that being alive is good. Every day, in every way, beliefs steer our lives.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    30,662
    Ratings:
    +8,902
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Belief in what? I think it is certainly possible to live with no belief in God or a religion, but we have to believe in other things in order to live life since everything cannot be proven as a fact, in which case it is only a belief.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,451
    Ratings:
    +5,964
    Religion:
    Skeptical
    No, of course not.

    My own starting point, my axioms, are beliefs: that a world exists external to me, that my senses are capable of informing me of that world, and that reason is a valid tool.

    I also have this strange fixation that particular pieces of stamped metal, particular pieces of printed paper, and particular sets of electronic signals are valuable, are "money".

    And that it's good to understand the world as best one can. And to treat people with decency, respect and inclusion. And to pay my bills as they fall due.

    And the list is a lot longer than that.

    But if the image you provide is meant to suggest that belief in the supernatural is necessary, that's certainly not the case where I'm standing. No objective test can distinguish the supernatural from the imaginary, for example.

    Still, if it helps people to behave decently ─ most people behave decently most of the time anyway ─ who's to object?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  14. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    12,695
    Ratings:
    +2,540
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    without knowledge, you only have belief or unconsiousness. you can't traverse reality being unconscious or constantly just make believing.
     
  15. muhammad_isa

    muhammad_isa Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,231
    Ratings:
    +409
    Religion:
    Islam
    I agree wholeheartedly. :)
    It is impossible for us not to have beliefs.

    Some people hold a belief that "science rules OK" ;)
     
  16. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    19,379
    Ratings:
    +9,619
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    Ok, so is there any benefit to limiting our beliefs as much as possible?

    There is a dichotomy between believers and non-believers that
    So, do you think all facts require some foundation of belief?
     
  17. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    19,379
    Ratings:
    +9,619
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    I'm talking about not being self-conscious. Conscious without the consciousness of self.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,451
    Ratings:
    +5,964
    Religion:
    Skeptical
    Maybe those people are unhappy with "politics rules OK"?

    Ain't humans funny!
     
  19. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2017
    Messages:
    9,451
    Ratings:
    +5,964
    Religion:
    Skeptical
    Yes, I think so. When (working from an idea of Descartes) I realized that I operate on the three assumptions I mentioned, and that I'd never noticed them because everyone else acts as if they share those assumptions, I found it very clarifying. They share the quality that it's not possible to demonstrate that they're correct without first assuming they're correct.

    But those assumptions (beliefs) are in place because they work, and I suspect they work because evolution is ruthlessly efficient about how only the survivors breed; so they don't need to be known consciously, though if they are, you see they're assumptions of necessity.

    Whereas assumptions about ─ beliefs in favor of ─ the supernatural are neither supported by evidence after they're assumed, nor necessary for survival and breeding.

    As perhaps a qualification to that last statement, I'm inclined to think that religion and supernatural beings arose usefully from a combination of our evolved traits ─ first as gregarious primates who benefit enormously from cooperation, originally within our tribal groups, and therefore tend to survive better if our practices reinforce tribal identity and unity (along with kin, language, customs, stories, heroes &c); second as curious creatures whose instinctive response to the unknown is to attribute a reason (eg with lightning, dreams, luck at hunting, death, drought, plague &c); and so on.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  20. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    8,482
    Ratings:
    +2,071
    Everyone believes in something
    and in reality many, many things. Most people likely believe things like the sun will rise each morning, or the chair they’re about to sit on won’t collapse, that water will come out of the faucet when turning the handle on, or the light will come on when flipping the switch.
    Just think for thousands and thousands of years no one believed in electricity. It’s invisible and wasn’t understood. Now pretty much everyone believes and understands the reality of electricity. Likely, there are other things still beyond the full knowledge and understanding of human beings, which none the less may be real and worthy of belief, once awareness comes.
     
    • Useful Useful x 2
Loading...