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Liberty

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by InChrist, Dec 4, 2020.

  1. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    It seems like in former years liberals valued freedom and liberty more than at present. When I was younger the more liberal-minded people were considered anti- establishment. I’m starting to notice that now a dramatic change; it’s those on the left that are very establishment leaning and appear to be all to ready to give up liberty.

    What are your thoughts?


    Ron Paul Liberty Report
     
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  2. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member

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    Freedom's all in your head(not specifically you, @InChrist ) .
     
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  3. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Liberal PC zealots are no better or worse than and not much different than the Moral Crusaders on the Right. All must get involved with more actively calling out amd renouncing such garbage (especially of their own side).
     
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  4. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    They grew up & became their parents?
    But they have improved in at least one way, ie, now pro-gay marriage.
     
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  5. Cooky

    Cooky But you can call me Captain

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    My thoughts are that the left is becoming increasingly Authoritarian. The reason for this is their admiration for anything European.
     
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  6. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member

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    Does this mean my love for Croatian candy will turn me into a tyrant?
     
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  7. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    The most liberal nations are European so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

    Considering that Ron Paul doesn't support gay marriage and gay rights, doesn't support gender equality, doesn't support universal healthcore or universal access to education, he doesn't support unions either. His vision of freedom is thus mostly centered on his personnal freedom not that of his society or of people who aren't heterosexual white men with money.
     
    #7 epronovost, Dec 4, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  8. Cooky

    Cooky But you can call me Captain

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    it's a shame when progressives throw perfectly good concepts in the trash simply because they idolize everything European.
     
  9. Cooky

    Cooky But you can call me Captain

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    Left wing authoritarians are not liberal.
     
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  10. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Not quite accurate about Ron Paul’s stance on gay marriage...


    “Q: In Dec. 2007, you were asked if gays should be allowed to marry. You said, "Sure; they can do whatever they want and can call it whatever they want." Are you advocating legalizing gay marriage?

    A: As a matter of fact, I spent a whole chapter in my new book on marriage. And I think it's very important seeing that I've been married for 54 years now. I think the government should just be out of it. I think it should be done by the church as a private contract and we shouldn't have this argument of who's married and who isn't married. I have my standards but I shouldn't impose my standards on others. Others have their standards and they have no right to impose their marriage standards on me. But if we want to have something to say about marriage, it should be at the state level and not at the federal level. Just get the government out of it. It's one area where it's totally unnecessary, and they've caused more trouble than necessary.”


    Ron Paul on Civil Rights
     
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  11. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    To be frank, the notion the left as a whole is less concerned with liberty today than it was in the past sounds like just one more example of the inferior partisan 'thinking' that is rampant today in America. I'm getting pretty bored with it all.

    Have fun with fun it, though. If you can. But you're no closer to getting at any truths than an elephant is to fitting into a rabbit's long-johns.

    I'm out of here.
     
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  12. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    To a. certain extent that may be true, but try telling that to someone in a concentration camp or a child held captive by a sex trafficker.
     
  13. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member

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    I would imagine it very hard(if not impossible) for a child to find that kind of freedom in that situation, yes.

    And awfully hard for a person in a concentration camp as well, though there have been stories of individuals finding this peace, even amidst harrowing surroundings.
     
  14. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I do see the left becoming more authoritarian. Could you clarify why you think admiration for anything European is the reason?
     
  15. Cooky

    Cooky But you can call me Captain

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    If you look closely, you'll notice a lot of the language used by the left is straight from European playbooks. What I think tends to happen is that European opinionators make known their stance, and then the American left, being very fond of everything European, simply pick it up and run with it as if it were the word of God.

    ...For instance, calling Trump "authoritarian" is totally European rooted, because in Europe, right wing means more government control, where as in America, right wing means less government -- It's the total opposite. So what we have is misinformation being fed to the American left, and they just run with it anyways, not even caring that it makes no logical sense... Realistically, the left is far more in line with Authoritarianism in the United States based on their desire for restrictions on speech, and governmental overreach in general.


    Other examples include the use of the word "nationalist". A term that makes no sense In the United States, but makes total sense in Europe where many tiny countries live interdependently with each other... In Europe, nationalism is an actual problem, because small countries rely on one another for resources, but here in America, it really makes no sense.

    These are just two examples of European influence/control of the American left.
     
    #15 Cooky, Dec 4, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2020
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  16. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member

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    What part of Europe are you finding is idolized? Bulgaria? Ireland? Luxembourg? Albania?:p

    I respect the idea of less government, but the 'right' in my state hasn't been for it lately. Actually, it really took me by shock. There was a movement that each county could set its own minimum wage, and that was downturned by the 'right'. Then, the one that really baffled me(and thankfully did not pass) was when the 'right' started a movement that private schools should get public funding! That didn't make sense in the least! It was okay to take tax payer's money, but they didn't want any of the tax payer's regulations...
     
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  17. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Thank you. That was a helpful explanation and does line up with what’s taking place.
     
  18. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    I think this says it all. The right authoritarians have moved so far to the right and towards authoritarianism that there is much much space at just not so far right and a little less authoritarian which the democrats can occupy and they do.
     
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  19. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    And yet is the Right that is seeking to undermine democracy. So how does that work?
     
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  20. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Europe isn't authoritarian - well most of it isn't
     
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