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LIBERAL ONLY Trump has a plan to stay in the White House if he loses election, former senator says

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
How paranoid are you? I don't think it will play out this way but I'm not totally relaxed. I don't think it would happen because of the Chief Justice. We might see a 5 to 4 decision, but if Roberts votes this way, the reputation of SCOTUS will be gone forever and it will be treated just as another political branch of government.

I think it likely that Trump would assert a rigged vote and election hacking. The "justice" department would I think launch the investigation because it does what trump wants.

And SCOTUS could easily rule that the investigation can continue but that's it as far as I can see.

Trump has a plan to stay in the White House if he loses election, former senator says

...should Mr Trump lose in a scenario where challenger Joe Biden beats him by "decent but not overwhelming" margins in the swing states of Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, Mr Trump will declare that the vote was rigged.


He will supposedly blame mail-in ballots and Chinese election interference for the loss and invoke emergency powers to launch a Justice Department investigation into alleged "election hacking" in the swing states.

... Mr Trump will stall until 14 December, which is the date when states must appoint their US Electoral College electors. Because the swing states are each controlled by Republicans, Mr Wirth believes the state legislatures will refuse to certify their electors until the election hacking investigation is finished.
...
He then claims the Democrats will challenge the investigation and the challenge to the election, which will eventually be taken to the US Supreme Court. Mr Wirth believes the Supreme Court will rule against the Republicans, but will concede that Mr Trump's emergency powers authorise him to continue his investigation. The Supreme Court will also maintain that should the swing states not be able to certify their selectors by 14 December - for any reason - then the Electoral College will have to meet and vote for the president without the swing states included.
...
Under Mr Wirth's theory, the Electoral College will then meet without the swing states under investigation, and neither candidate will receive enough votes to secure the presidency. According to Mr Wirth, the contested election would then move to the House of Representatives, where each delegation gets to cast one vote towards the presidency.


Since there are more Republican controlled House delegations than Democratic controlled delegations - 26 Republican to 23 Democrats - the Republicans will be the victors of the vote and Mr Trump will remain in office.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Dumpster doesn't have the support of the U.S. Military. That's going to be a loosing battle for him. I'm not worried.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
How paranoid are you? I don't think it will play out this way but I'm not totally relaxed. I don't think it would happen because of the Chief Justice. We might see a 5 to 4 decision, but if Roberts votes this way, the reputation of SCOTUS will be gone forever and it will be treated just as another political branch of government.

I think it likely that Trump would assert a rigged vote and election hacking. The "justice" department would I think launch the investigation because it does what trump wants.

And SCOTUS could easily rule that the investigation can continue but that's it as far as I can see.

Trump has a plan to stay in the White House if he loses election, former senator says

...should Mr Trump lose in a scenario where challenger Joe Biden beats him by "decent but not overwhelming" margins in the swing states of Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, Mr Trump will declare that the vote was rigged.


He will supposedly blame mail-in ballots and Chinese election interference for the loss and invoke emergency powers to launch a Justice Department investigation into alleged "election hacking" in the swing states.

... Mr Trump will stall until 14 December, which is the date when states must appoint their US Electoral College electors. Because the swing states are each controlled by Republicans, Mr Wirth believes the state legislatures will refuse to certify their electors until the election hacking investigation is finished.
...
He then claims the Democrats will challenge the investigation and the challenge to the election, which will eventually be taken to the US Supreme Court. Mr Wirth believes the Supreme Court will rule against the Republicans, but will concede that Mr Trump's emergency powers authorise him to continue his investigation. The Supreme Court will also maintain that should the swing states not be able to certify their selectors by 14 December - for any reason - then the Electoral College will have to meet and vote for the president without the swing states included.
...
Under Mr Wirth's theory, the Electoral College will then meet without the swing states under investigation, and neither candidate will receive enough votes to secure the presidency. According to Mr Wirth, the contested election would then move to the House of Representatives, where each delegation gets to cast one vote towards the presidency.


Since there are more Republican controlled House delegations than Democratic controlled delegations - 26 Republican to 23 Democrats - the Republicans will be the victors of the vote and Mr Trump will remain in office.
I certainly think it is worth war-gaming such scenarios, just to be prepared. But I read an article in the Financial Times on Chief Justice Roberts, arguing that he is an "institutionalist", by which was meant that he believes strongly in preserving the institutions of the state.

I find this very reassuring in the present circumstances. It seems to me to be exactly what the USA needs at this juncture.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
How paranoid are you? I don't think it will play out this way but I'm not totally relaxed. I don't think it would happen because of the Chief Justice. We might see a 5 to 4 decision, but if Roberts votes this way, the reputation of SCOTUS will be gone forever and it will be treated just as another political branch of government.

I think it likely that Trump would assert a rigged vote and election hacking. The "justice" department would I think launch the investigation because it does what trump wants.

And SCOTUS could easily rule that the investigation can continue but that's it as far as I can see.

Trump has a plan to stay in the White House if he loses election, former senator says

...should Mr Trump lose in a scenario where challenger Joe Biden beats him by "decent but not overwhelming" margins in the swing states of Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, Mr Trump will declare that the vote was rigged.


He will supposedly blame mail-in ballots and Chinese election interference for the loss and invoke emergency powers to launch a Justice Department investigation into alleged "election hacking" in the swing states.

... Mr Trump will stall until 14 December, which is the date when states must appoint their US Electoral College electors. Because the swing states are each controlled by Republicans, Mr Wirth believes the state legislatures will refuse to certify their electors until the election hacking investigation is finished.
...
He then claims the Democrats will challenge the investigation and the challenge to the election, which will eventually be taken to the US Supreme Court. Mr Wirth believes the Supreme Court will rule against the Republicans, but will concede that Mr Trump's emergency powers authorise him to continue his investigation. The Supreme Court will also maintain that should the swing states not be able to certify their selectors by 14 December - for any reason - then the Electoral College will have to meet and vote for the president without the swing states included.
...
Under Mr Wirth's theory, the Electoral College will then meet without the swing states under investigation, and neither candidate will receive enough votes to secure the presidency. According to Mr Wirth, the contested election would then move to the House of Representatives, where each delegation gets to cast one vote towards the presidency.


Since there are more Republican controlled House delegations than Democratic controlled delegations - 26 Republican to 23 Democrats - the Republicans will be the victors of the vote and Mr Trump will remain in office.

This is an extremely...specific set of predictions. Itll be interesting to compare it to what really happens come the election.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
How paranoid are you? I don't think it will play out this way but I'm not totally relaxed. I don't think it would happen because of the Chief Justice. We might see a 5 to 4 decision, but if Roberts votes this way, the reputation of SCOTUS will be gone forever and it will be treated just as another political branch of government.

I think it likely that Trump would assert a rigged vote and election hacking. The "justice" department would I think launch the investigation because it does what trump wants.

And SCOTUS could easily rule that the investigation can continue but that's it as far as I can see.

Trump has a plan to stay in the White House if he loses election, former senator says

...should Mr Trump lose in a scenario where challenger Joe Biden beats him by "decent but not overwhelming" margins in the swing states of Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, Mr Trump will declare that the vote was rigged.


He will supposedly blame mail-in ballots and Chinese election interference for the loss and invoke emergency powers to launch a Justice Department investigation into alleged "election hacking" in the swing states.

... Mr Trump will stall until 14 December, which is the date when states must appoint their US Electoral College electors. Because the swing states are each controlled by Republicans, Mr Wirth believes the state legislatures will refuse to certify their electors until the election hacking investigation is finished.
...
He then claims the Democrats will challenge the investigation and the challenge to the election, which will eventually be taken to the US Supreme Court. Mr Wirth believes the Supreme Court will rule against the Republicans, but will concede that Mr Trump's emergency powers authorise him to continue his investigation. The Supreme Court will also maintain that should the swing states not be able to certify their selectors by 14 December - for any reason - then the Electoral College will have to meet and vote for the president without the swing states included.
...
Under Mr Wirth's theory, the Electoral College will then meet without the swing states under investigation, and neither candidate will receive enough votes to secure the presidency. According to Mr Wirth, the contested election would then move to the House of Representatives, where each delegation gets to cast one vote towards the presidency.


Since there are more Republican controlled House delegations than Democratic controlled delegations - 26 Republican to 23 Democrats - the Republicans will be the victors of the vote and Mr Trump will remain in office.

I highly doubt that will happen. Honestly he's probably sick of being president and if he loses, will be glad to leave.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
I think it more likely that if he loses on 11-3, after he complains about how the election was stolen, he will simply leave Pence in charge and return to Mar-a-lago or Trump Towers to nurse his wounds and do whatever he can to cash in on now being the ex-President.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
People claimed Obama would try to take over the country using a fake emergency and fema, and I remember hearing this claim repeated on facebook by people. The rumor may come from an ex senator, but Trump wouldn't be able to get his own support base to support such a thing. The republicans would not support it. They would not.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
How paranoid are you? I don't think it will play out this way but I'm not totally relaxed. I don't think it would happen because of the Chief Justice. We might see a 5 to 4 decision, but if Roberts votes this way, the reputation of SCOTUS will be gone forever and it will be treated just as another political branch of government.

I think it likely that Trump would assert a rigged vote and election hacking. The "justice" department would I think launch the investigation because it does what trump wants.

And SCOTUS could easily rule that the investigation can continue but that's it as far as I can see.

Trump has a plan to stay in the White House if he loses election, former senator says

...should Mr Trump lose in a scenario where challenger Joe Biden beats him by "decent but not overwhelming" margins in the swing states of Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, Mr Trump will declare that the vote was rigged.


He will supposedly blame mail-in ballots and Chinese election interference for the loss and invoke emergency powers to launch a Justice Department investigation into alleged "election hacking" in the swing states.

... Mr Trump will stall until 14 December, which is the date when states must appoint their US Electoral College electors. Because the swing states are each controlled by Republicans, Mr Wirth believes the state legislatures will refuse to certify their electors until the election hacking investigation is finished.
...
He then claims the Democrats will challenge the investigation and the challenge to the election, which will eventually be taken to the US Supreme Court. Mr Wirth believes the Supreme Court will rule against the Republicans, but will concede that Mr Trump's emergency powers authorise him to continue his investigation. The Supreme Court will also maintain that should the swing states not be able to certify their selectors by 14 December - for any reason - then the Electoral College will have to meet and vote for the president without the swing states included.
...
Under Mr Wirth's theory, the Electoral College will then meet without the swing states under investigation, and neither candidate will receive enough votes to secure the presidency. According to Mr Wirth, the contested election would then move to the House of Representatives, where each delegation gets to cast one vote towards the presidency.


Since there are more Republican controlled House delegations than Democratic controlled delegations - 26 Republican to 23 Democrats - the Republicans will be the victors of the vote and Mr Trump will remain in office.

Sadly, I wouldn't be too surprised if he made such an attempt. After all, once he's no longer POTUS he's got a deluge of lawsuits that he'll no longer be able to avoid.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
People claimed Obama would try to take over the country using a fake emergency and fema, and I remember hearing this claim repeated on facebook by people. The rumor may come from an ex senator, but Trump wouldn't be able to get his own support base to support such a thing. The republicans would not support it. They would not.

Well, if they lose the House and the Senate, they might try. To some of them a Democratic trifecta is worse.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, if they lose the House and the Senate, they might try. To some of them a Democratic trifecta is worse.
No way. That's not even in the cards. I know the most hard core of Republicans would not. Now...they might fear that the Democrats would do it. They'd believe that for 50 cents.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
... Mr Trump will stall until 14 December, which is the date when states must appoint their US Electoral College electors. Because the swing states are each controlled by Republicans, Mr Wirth believes the state legislatures will refuse to certify their electors until the election hacking investigation is finished.
Republican or not, I don't think Trump can assume that those state representatives will risk prison for electoral fraud just to get him back into the Oval Office.

... and despite them being Republicans, some of them have some ethics.

Edit: and Trump never has to go back to the voters again after November. Most of the other people who are key in this plan would be looking to get re-elected in 2022 or 2024. Screwing over the voters in swing states is not a good way to get them to vote for you.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
Well, if he declares an emergency and institutes martial law (I know, not possible), there won't need to be future elections because as Emperor Donald I of Murica, he won't need no stinkin' elections...
 

Sw. Vandana Jyothi

Truth is One, many are the Names
Premium Member
Arghhhh, sun rise. Even articulating the supposition leaves me nauseous and raises my blood pressure. I'm too old for the constant upheaval this so-called president and his minions foist upon the sensibilities of ordinary people. I am not winning the struggle to remain even-keeled.
 

Tambourine

Well-Known Member
Do you think the police could drag out these protests until election day? I figure that "violence" and "people being prevented from voting" would be a decent pretext to call the legitimacy of the elections into question, and Conservatives are already being primed to expect such a thing to happen.
 
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