[LHP Only] Narcissism - The Bane of The Left-Hand Path

[Mindmaster]

After much thought, I've decided I am not really frustrated with anyone's beliefs or systems that are used outside of my own -- I have concluded that I am simply rejecting narcissism in every form. Nothing in my being allows me to accept that type of thinking as correct or normal. This is sort of long... Sorry...

What is narcissism?

DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:

• Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
• Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
• Exaggerating your achievements and talents
• Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
• Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
• Requiring constant admiration
• Having a sense of entitlement
• Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
• Taking advantage of others to get what you want
• Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
• Being envious of others and believing others envy you
• Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner

Many people do these things periodically and in that sense it's not always a disorder but just someones tolerances at play or even mistakes, but it transposes to full on disorder once it becomes ones way of life.

The left-hand path naturally encourages this disorder in many ways through various groups, but it is as helpful to the individual as supplying a drug addict with a truckload of heroin. Think you're a god? Think you have some mystic knowledge that someone outside your little clique can't understand? Guess what.... You need a doctor! Does someone need to be a member of your order to have a detailed discussion about certain topic with you? Yep, you are here... Sorry, go see the doctor... Help is available, and you don't know how much it is hurting your life.

The psychology of the left-hand path groups encourages them to recruit sycophants who will appease the existing memberships needs to be envied, feel entitled, admired, etc... The smarter groups are brainwashing folks into their reality tunnel by providing them nuggets of supposedly exclusive wisdom like cookies and slowly converting them to their ways. Eventually, the aspirant is expected to take whatever is illogical with the logical -- and then the conditioning is complete. Once someone is this brainwashed they are given some title or rank, and provided their own flock of boot licking sheep. This reinforces the idea that what they are doing is right, but of course they are still just as delusional as ever.

The illogical or arbitrary concepts (for people outside of the group) aren't indicative of the need to initiate with the group to understand the concepts -- this is classical brainwash fodder. The people higher up in the group know the systems are arbitrary or illogical, but they are used to gauge a rookies attachment to the reality tunnel of the sect. Generally, these sects view these as selling points but they are really just dogma. They aren't any truer or realer than many other ideas or methods, and all of these methods are available from the Internet or other sources. Does the group use made up words at all? Yep, your group is crazy folks -- maybe they are highly logical, but they are crazy. They all need doctors too! Run for the hills!

Have the implications of this post angered you? Good, you need a doctor! You are right in the groove of the topic discussed and narcissism is probably destroying your life -- even though you don't know that. A narcissist is a slave to delusions, and not a member of any left-hand path. A left-hand pather is a free agent and recognizes butt kissing and operant conditioning for what they are.

This message brought to you as a public service, er... As, to end my frustration constantly debating these points in various posts.

Thanks for your time,

Mind

 

[1137]

I see no point in responding since you never reply to or discuss criticisms against your ideas, as proved in the thread that birthed this topic. All I can say is I'm sorry whatever order you applied to rejected you, but I think it's past time you move on.

 

[EtuMalku]

Don't confuse Narcissism with Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Narcissistic personality disorder affects an estimated 1% of the general population
There is healthy Narcissism as well and this would be found in the Western Left Hand Path

"Healthy narcissism is a structural truthfulness of the self, achievement of self and object constancy, synchronization between the self and the superego and a balance between libidinal and aggressive drives (the ability to receive gratification from others and the drive for impulse expression). Healthy narcissism forms a constant, realistic self-interest and mature goals and principles and an ability to form deep object relations.[13] A feature related to healthy narcissism is the feeling of greatness. This is the antithesis of insecurity or inadequacy." - Wikipedia

Narcissistic Personality Disorder
When a child cannot experience self objects that confirm and admire the child, it then resorts to infantile grandiosity and impedes its psychological structure aimed at maturity . . . a realistic sense of self esteem is stifled. These Narcissistic wounds lead to repressed desires / fetishes, anti‑social impulses, morally questionable motives and fantasies of an even more grandiose nature. Both Vampire and Otherkin serve as adequate scapegoat archetypes enabling the person to mentally discard these negative aspects of personality.

Originating as a child who's infantile sexual urges become raised to unacceptable levels, their ego defenses would regularly come into play and prevent the unconscious mind from becoming aware of these dangerous impulses. When the child cannot experience adequate mirroring (the seeking of self objects that confirm and admire the child thus nourishing their famished self) its infantile grandiosity cannot be transformed into a mature psychological structure identified by its more realistic sense of self esteem. These Narcissistic wounds lead to repressed wishes, anti‑social impulses, morally questionable motives and fantasies of grandiose nature.

 

[EtuMalku]

Here's an adequate word for this thread;

ig·no·rance
ˈiɡnərəns/
noun: ignorance
lack of knowledge or information.
"he acted in ignorance of basic procedures"
synonyms: incomprehension of, unawareness of, unconsciousness of, unfamiliarity with, inexperience with, lack of knowledge about, lack of information about;
informal cluelessness about "a statement that shows a complete ignorance of the regulations"
lack of knowledge, lack of education, unenlightenment, illiteracy;
lack of intelligence, stupidity, foolishness, idiocy
"both ignorance and poverty contribute to the growing problem of forced child labor"

 

[1137]

Don't confuse Narcissism with Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Narcissistic personality disorder affects an estimated 1% of the general population
There is healthy Narcissism as well and this would be found in the Western Left Hand Path

We should also remember that a disorder isn't even a problem unless it causes dysfunction, a very important side note for abnormal psych.

 

[Mindmaster]

I'm not confused. You're just pick-a-mixing my post like everything else. It's obvious someone with a narcissistic personality disorder is also a narcissist. I don't think I have to type the full term out every single time for us to understand that was the subject of the post. But, hey... Go ahead and keep drinking that kool-aid.

Anyway, these are what ignore lists are for. Peace out.

 

[1137]

Anyway, these are what ignore lists are for. Peace out.

Dissenting opinion? Whatever order it was made the right call.

 

[crossfire]

I would agree that narcissism is not conducive to the LHP. Narcissists have problems recognizing personal boundaries of individuals, whereas LHP is about honoring and developing individuals.

 

[1137]

God I hate to ****ing encourage this, but this is an educational forum viewed by many outsiders, I don't feel right allowing ignorance to reign .

After much thought, I've decided I am not really frustrated with anyone's beliefs or systems that are used outside of my own -- I have concluded that I am simply rejecting narcissism in every form. Nothing in my being allows me to accept that type of thinking as correct or normal. This is sort of long... Sorry...

What is narcissism?

DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:

• Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
• Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
• Exaggerating your achievements and talents
• Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
• Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
• Requiring constant admiration
• Having a sense of entitlement
• Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
• Taking advantage of others to get what you want
• Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
• Being envious of others and believing others envy you
• Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner

Well, narcissistic personality disorder is something pretty rare. On top of that, basic psychology (I'm literally talking 100-200 level courses) understands that there is only a problem if traits cause dysfunction. We're all narcissistic to some degree, humans are inherently selfish. However, this selfishness is an extremely positive trait in the long run, allowing us to protect ourselves and what we care about, creating self worth,etc.

Many people do these things periodically and in that sense it's not always a disorder but just someones tolerances at play or even mistakes, but it transposes to full on disorder once it becomes ones way of life.

This is a pretty nonsensical sentence, to be honest. Sure if someone has NPD and they are psychopathic, manipulative, dangerous, etc there is a problem, but this is rarely the case. It could hardly permeate an entire group of people (besides politicians, perhaps haha).

The left-hand path naturally encourages this disorder in many ways through various groups, but it is as helpful to the individual as supplying a drug addict with a truckload of heroin. Think you're a god? Think you have some mystic knowledge that someone outside your little clique can't understand? Guess what.... You need a doctor! Does someone need to be a member of your order to have a detailed discussion about certain topic with you? Yep, you are here... Sorry, go see the doctor... Help is available, and you don't know how much it is hurting your life.

Not that you would understand through either theory or practice, but the left hand path seeks to avoid all dysfunction, to make a better individual. You're claiming orders brainwash people into crazy narcissists to the point of disorder (lol) but that does not even make sense. Why would the manipulative frauds want self-obsessed followers who think they're better than those above them? It makes no sense. If orders are brainwashing individuals, why brain wash them to be independent and self-worthy? This line of thought is pure nonsense backed by zero logical reasoning.

As for the complexity of order terminology, it's the simple focus on one path which leads to stronger magic. Sure we can remain chaos magicians attempting mundane goals, but unlike you some of us choose to move past that, to actually get our hands dirty. Imagine if when we created calculus we were like "cool, it works, we should totally forget about it now and create a new field of math for every problem".

The psychology of the left-hand path groups encourages them to recruit sycophants who will appease the existing memberships needs to be envied, feel entitled, admired, etc... The smarter groups are brainwashing folks into their reality tunnel by providing them nuggets of supposedly exclusive wisdom like cookies and slowly converting them to their ways. Eventually, the aspirant is expected to take whatever is illogical with the logical -- and then the conditioning is complete. Once someone is this brainwashed they are given some title or rank, and provided their own flock of boot licking sheep. This reinforces the idea that what they are doing is right, but of course they are still just as delusional as ever.

It's interesting that your post isn't even about narcissism, but rather about orders and how you're so above them (see: irony). This isn't descriptive of the Temple of Set, order of phosphorous, doesn't seem part of this herald of the dawn stuff, sure wasn't a part of the ODS, and so on.

The illogical or arbitrary concepts (for people outside of the group) aren't indicative of the need to initiate with the group to understand the concepts -- this is classical brainwash fodder. The people higher up in the group know the systems are arbitrary or illogical, but they are used to gauge a rookies attachment to the reality tunnel of the sect. Generally, these sects view these as selling points but they are really just dogma. They aren't any truer or realer than many other ideas or methods, and all of these methods are available from the Internet or other sources. Does the group use made up words at all? Yep, your group is crazy folks -- maybe they are highly logical, but they are crazy. They all need doctors too! Run for the hills!

 

[ThirtyThree]

Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance

I think that applies to the general human population.

Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it

That does not describe me.

Exaggerating your achievements and talents

That does not describe me.

Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate

I desire success. I would enjoy power. I am intelligent. I do not view myself physically beautiful and I do not care about the perfect mate.

Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people.

While I am an elitist, I do associate with a multitude of people. Whether they can understand me or not is on them.

Requiring constant admiration

That does not describe me.

Having a sense of entitlement.

While the world and my deity does not owe me anything, I believe my merits will eventually speak for themselves. In other words, I was not born with a silver spoon shoved in my mouth.

Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations.

Expecting special favors? No. Expecting unquestioning compliance? That depends. If I am to be a great leader, those who follow me should want to give me unquestioning compliance.

Taking advantage of others to get what you want.

That does describe me.

Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others.

I must understand the needs and reactionary nature (emotional nature) of those I address. Due to this, the above statement does not describe me.

Being envious of others and believing others envy you.

I would be lying if I stated I have no envy. As for me believing others envy me? No, it is a fact. Some people do envy me. They envy my annunciation, intelligence, knowledge, presence and certainty. There is no belief involved on my part. I am told this at least weekly by some people I communicate with. I even have those who cling on to my every word. How do I feel about all of that? I do not yet care. It is just a fact that some people do envy me.

Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner.

I do behave in an arrogant and haughty manner. I tame it as necessary.

 

[crossfire]

Alright, I'll bring this up: has anyone investigated the incidence between Narcissistic Personality Disorder and so-called Destructive Cults?

 

[EtuMalku]

Alright, I'll bring this up: has anyone investigated the incidence between Narcissistic Personality Disorder and so-called Destructive Cults?

What are "so-called Destructive Cults" ?

 

[crossfire]

What are "so-called Destructive Cults" ?

Jim Jones and the like.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Destructive_cults

 

[crossfire]

I can also see how narcissists might be particularly vulnerable to having their minds overcome by greed, hatred, or especially delusion. It would be interesting to investigate the incidence of NPD and warmongering and/or terrorism, since the weak or nonexistent sense of personal boundaries makes it easy for the narcissist to project their shadow demons onto others and dehumanize them in order to justify their cruel behavior.

 

[crossfire]

Reminds me of Monster of the Id from Forbidden Planet.

 

[Mindmaster]

Alright, I'll bring this up: has anyone investigated the incidence between Narcissistic Personality Disorder and so-called Destructive Cults?

Strangely enough, yes... Thus, my initial post.

If you go back into history it is easy to see Jim Jones, David Koresh, and people like Charles Manson manifesting these traits. Manson being the only one alive is easy money -- he has done several interviews and it is obvious that he thinks nothing is wrong with him despite the fact that there obviously is. Anyway, you can Google up "traits of cult leaders" and get a near spec list of NPD manifestations. Very little is actually in question on this... Manson is a NPD example, but he is also highly logical and very good at brainwashing. This is really the set of problems that makes him dangerous -- if he were just a narcissist he'd probably only be primarily wrecking his own life.

I realize most cults/sects/orders are probably not as harmful as the ones started by the individuals I've mentioned, but I think for me it is just the arrogance I've seen demonstrated by certain groups. These types of groups teach people to think like the leader, and thus they become surrogates for the leader in most things. The key thing to understand of the matter is most NPD folks are unaware of their problem completely. It manifests in their work life, family life, and other areas... Their associations will be directly aware of the correspondences, but they themselves probably aren't.

I always find stuff like this:

1) Working at McDonalds, Walmart, or some sort of other low end job... Because they don't keep them...
2) Poor sex life, or no sex life. Again, social problems... Ultimately, a narcissist is me-first. People get tired of being used.
3) No empathy with beliefs outside of their own. They are nearly unwilling to take it that someone else might have a better understanding of something than themselves. or entertain ideas that maybe don't fit their notions. Even if there drastic problems with this theory like -- massive age differences, or they are a college student; lacking the possible time to accumulate the life experience to refute the ideas. Age isn't always a good qualifier, but we can reason that if two people are highly intellectual and one is 20 years older it's possible he's been working the problem a bit longer.
4) Conflict serves to reinforce whatever silly beliefs they have. Have you really ever seen anyone here change their mind drastically about a subject?
5) Complete lack of introspection... No self-diagnostic ability at all, nor even a hint that they might have been mistaken.

I didn't post this content to criticize anyone, but rather just to raise caution about the matter and maybe allow for some productive introspection to take place. If you were here listing your own traits as you see them... You probably are not the type, but if you admire these traits you probably are in danger of being dominated by someone that is. Again, I'm not really eliciting a debate a much as trying to provide a little food for thought, hence my lack of replies. I'm just trying to make the LHP a better place.

 

[crossfire]

So, what kind of tools does the WLHP have to deal with narcissism?

 

[Iti oj]

I don't know about the narcissistic stuff, but I agree with some of this as a criticism of the lhp

 

[1137]

So, what kind of tools does the WLHP have to deal with narcissism?

Self awareness, outside feedback (though mind master seems against this idea).

 

[ThirtyThree]

Again, I'm not really eliciting a debate a much as trying to provide a little food for thought, hence my lack of replies. I'm just trying to make the LHP a better place.

Why does the LHP need to be made into a better "place"? The last time I checked it was not supposed to be a comfortable "place" to begin with. Then, originally, LHP was just supposed to be:

In Western esotericism the terms Left-Hand Path and Right-Hand Path refers to a dichotomy between two opposing approaches to magic. This terminology is used in various groups involved in the occult and ceremonial magic.

Somehow, a way to approach magic(k) transformed into a cult of carnal desire, individualism and in many cases Atheism.