LGBT Rant

[Unveiled Artist]

Well. Kinda. I wont write a book.

I go to this LGBTQ site for individuals, mostly young adults, fifteenish on up. Of course, they are all over the world. What bothers me is that we all over the world have an innate knowledge and experience (identity) of being LGBTQ. When I hear people talk about their issues they arent talking about sex and who they want to be with. Their not thinking lust or the vast majority not confusing behavior with attraction. Some people are in danger to their parents and loved ones.

It is soo much more than mere attraction that when I think of christians (sorry) define homosexuals by same-sex behavior as if that is specific to us makes my skin crawl. If any christian here talked about their views of marriage and behavior there, at that site, it would take a WHOLE, whole new different context because you arent questioning and attacking their attractions nor their genders, but who they are an developing as a person. While one can love the sinner and hate the sin, that just doesnt fly with people ALL around the world with whom from different cultures still go through similar experiences.

If it were a western-fad or modern or so have you, Id assume it would be isolated to specific groups of people. A lot of people judge us by what is on t.v. and movies and past experiences judging others maybe because of their relgious views or generation etc.


Okay. So I lied. I am writing a book.

Anyway. As Im listening to the youth around the world come for support and like experiences it makes my teeth nawl at the misunderstanding and ignorance of biblical definitions of sex defining a whole chunk of teens who do not even fit those descriptions. It does make me sad that they have to grow up in this biased world. I bet they wouldnt have identity issues if we didnt judge them by the bible but who they aer and say they are as people.

No. Not love the sinner and hate the sin. If that teen falls in love and has sex to consommate that love, what exactly are you denying: their act of love or their genetials.

Because many people can love a persons exterier self. But judging them becuase of who and how they love, I hope these teens find a more loving and acceptable environment with whom our biases dont define our loved ones (even without them knowing it).

Im glad Im noticing no one else comes to that forum. While adults can handle you spiting in our face at marriage and so forth (context), not all young people will. While we cant change our opinions on certain sins, I would hope one would understand the sin in a different perspective (the facts) to where ons opinions would at least be factual even if you disagree with it.

 

[Trackdayguy]

I liked your rant. Have you read "Sexual Liberation" by William Lawrance?

 

[Deeje]

Well. Kinda. I wont write a book.

I go to this LGBTQ site for individuals, mostly young adults, fifteenish on up. Of course, they are all over the world. What bothers me is that we all over the world have an innate knowledge and experience (identity) of being LGBTQ. When I hear people talk about their issues they arent talking about sex and who they want to be with. Their not thinking lust or the vast majority not confusing behavior with attraction. Some people are in danger to their parents and loved ones.

It is soo much more than mere attraction that when I think of christians (sorry) define homosexuals by same-sex behavior as if that is specific to us makes my skin crawl. If any christian here talked about their views of marriage and behavior there, at that site, it would take a WHOLE, whole new different context because you arent questioning and attacking their attractions nor their genders, but who they are an developing as a person. While one can love the sinner and hate the sin, that just doesnt fly with people ALL around the world with whom from different cultures still go through similar experiences.

If it were a western-fad or modern or so have you, Id assume it would be isolated to specific groups of people. A lot of people judge us by what is on t.v. and movies and past experiences judging others maybe because of their relgious views or generation etc.


Okay. So I lied. I am writing a book.

Anyway. As Im listening to the youth around the world come for support and like experiences it makes my teeth nawl at the misunderstanding and ignorance of biblical definitions of sex defining a whole chunk of teens who do not even fit those descriptions. It does make me sad that they have to grow up in this biased world. I bet they wouldnt have identity issues if we didnt judge them by the bible but who they aer and say they are as people.

No. Not love the sinner and hate the sin. If that teen falls in love and has sex to consommate that love, what exactly are you denying: their act of love or their genetials.

Because many people can love a persons exterier self. But judging them becuase of who and how they love, I hope these teens find a more loving and acceptable environment with whom our biases dont define our loved ones (even without them knowing it).

Im glad Im noticing no one else comes to that forum. While adults can handle you spiting in our face at marriage and so forth (context), not all young people will. While we cant change our opinions on certain sins, I would hope one would understand the sin in a different perspective (the facts) to where ons opinions would at least be factual even if you disagree with it.

I agree that there is a lot of unnessesary prejudice around the sexuality issue today....but having said that, I also see that many young ones are being swept along with what has now become something trendy among teens. School children are now forming same sex relationships.....but not because they have gender issues. They are exposed to ideas when they don't have the maturity to make adult decisions about what is essentially adult activity.

I was reading recently that some young teens are being given puberty inhibiting hormones with the approval of their patents, in preparation for later transsexual surgery. Unfortunately, this is backfiring because inhibiting puberty can damage a person's natural sexual development and these ones can change their minds as they get older (and a bit more mature) and realise that they don't want to change their gender, but have come to terms with just being gay. This whole issue has raised some serious problems for those in a hurry to jump on what has become a popular bandwagon. It's not all good....there are some serious consequences.

If a person is born gay, because there is a hiccup in the genetic coding, there is little that can be done to make them straight. But what we see happening is an inordinate concentration on gender fluidity aimed at immature children......to the ridiculous level of suggesting even removing of gender from birth certificates. Seriously....it's just gone too far.

If a gay person wishes to become a Christian, then they cannot expect that God will alter his moral laws to accommodate what is an abnormality in gender identification. It's in the wiring. Imperfection is our lot, thanks to the disobedience of our first parents.

The bottom line is....God hates immorality, regardless of gender.
If you are not in a scriptural marriage (which Jesus states is the union of male and female) then there is no room for same sex relationships.

Participating in any sexual relationship outside of marriage is a choice....no matter what gender we are. If we want to please God, rather than pleasing ourselves, then it will require sacrifice. We all have to sacrifice something, but the reward for doing so will be worth it, according to the Bible. Not all are willing to give that to God, opting to take what they can for themselves now, regardless of the consequences. It's all about our choices....it always has been.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I liked your rant. Have you read "Sexual Liberation" by William Lawrance?

Actually, no. I looked it up. Is it a thick read?

 

[Trackdayguy]

I agree that there is a lot of unnessesary prejudice around the sexuality issue today....but having said that, I also see that many young ones are being swept along with what has now become something trendy among teens. School children are now forming same sex relationships.....but not because they have gender issues. They are exposed to ideas when they don't have the maturity to make adult decisions about what is essentially adult activity.

I was reading recently that some young teens are being given puberty inhibiting hormones with the approval of their patents, in preparation for later transsexual surgery. Unfortunately, this is backfiring because inhibiting puberty can damage a person's natural sexual development and these ones can change their minds as they get older (and a bit more mature) and realise that they don't want to change their gender, but have come to terms with just being gay. This whole issue has raised some serious problems for those in a hurry to jump on what has become a popular bandwagon. It's not all good....there are some serious consequences.

If a person is born gay, because there is a hiccup in the genetic coding, there is little that can be done to make them straight. But what we see happening is an inordinate concentration on gender fluidity aimed at immature children......to the ridiculous level of suggesting even removing of gender from birth certificates. Seriously....it's just gone too far.

If a gay person wishes to become a Christian, then they cannot expect that God will alter his moral laws to accommodate what is an abnormality in gender identification. It's in the wiring. Imperfection is our lot, thanks to the disobedience of our first parents.

The bottom line is....God hates immorality, regardless of gender.
If you are not in a scriptural marriage (which Jesus states is the union of male and female) then there is no room for same sex relationships.

Participating in any sexual relationship outside of marriage is a choice....no matter what gender we are. If we want to please God, rather than pleasing ourselves, then it will require sacrifice. We all have to sacrifice something, but the reward for doing so will be worth it, according to the Bible. Not all are willing to give that to God, opting to take what they can for themselves now, regardless of the consequences. It's all about our choices....it always has been.

Some great points, but your bias is that of a fundamentalist Christian that has fallen into the trap of taking the Bible literally. Can I encourage you to read "Sexual Liberation" By William Lawrance.

 

[Trackdayguy]

Actually, no. I looked it up. Is it a thick read?

It's about about 160 pages.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I agree that there is a lot of unnessesary prejudice around the sexuality issue today....but having said that, I also see that many young ones are being swept along with what has now become something trendy among teens. School children are now forming same sex relationships.....but not because they have gender issues. They are exposed to ideas when they don't have the maturity to make adult decisions about what is essentially adult activity.

I was reading recently that some young teens are being given puberty inhibiting hormones with the approval of their patents, in preparation for later transsexual surgery. Unfortunately, this is backfiring because inhibiting puberty can damage a person's natural sexual development and these ones can change their minds as they get older (and a bit more mature) and realise that they don't want to change their gender, but have come to terms with just being gay. This whole issue has raised some serious problems for those in a hurry to jump on what has become a popular bandwagon. It's not all good....there are some serious consequences.

If a person is born gay, because there is a hiccup in the genetic coding, there is little that can be done to make them straight. But what we see happening is an inordinate concentration on gender fluidity aimed at immature children......to the ridiculous level of suggesting even removing of gender from birth certificates. Seriously....it's just gone too far.

If a gay person wishes to become a Christian, then they cannot expect that God will alter his moral laws to accommodate what is an abnormality in gender identification. It's in the wiring. Imperfection is our lot, thanks to the disobedience of our first parents.

The bottom line is....God hates immorality, regardless of gender.
If you are not in a scriptural marriage (which Jesus states is the union of male and female) then there is no room for same sex relationships.

Participating in any sexual relationship outside of marriage is a choice....no matter what gender we are. If we want to please God, rather than pleasing ourselves, then it will require sacrifice. We all have to sacrifice something, but the reward for doing so will be worth it, according to the Bible. Not all are willing to give that to God, opting to take what they can for themselves now, regardless of the consequences. It's all about our choices....it always has been.

I have to read this again. I dont know where you are from. I know in the U.S. there are a lot of trends in the external stuff like rainbow, which is somewhat new. This is from The United Church of Christ website. LGBT History Timeline I did an (objective) project on homosexual history. What you see on t.v. and people in thongs, I think thats pretty recent. 60s maybe? When the Gay Rights Movement came about. Homosexuals have been killed because of religious views. We're just reinventing thee wheel.

But, that is odd. When I was young, I had epilepsy. I had seizures all my life. We jumped from grade school and high school, school to school, hospital to hospital. I did not even know what gay was. Not even lesbian, bi, demi, and all of those terms. I just knew my hormones were acting up and the most important thing was taking my meds on time.

I didnt get into the fad or anything. Had not time for that. I noticed those who do come together because of what they experienced from society, anti-gay people, religious, dangerous neighborhoods, religious laws that arrest you for being homosexual (aka being attracted to men. Straights men have sex with other men all the tme).

You got to at least look at it from a historic view not a media view. I mean, you can put down homosexuality till the cows come home, but your argument (point of defense) is the people not the act. Behaviors dont have fads. People do.

Its not a debate or anything (more of a rant). It does bother me that sooooo many people all over the world who have no idea what we are talking about (no colors. or anything like that). They just know A. my hormones are acting up B. what is wrong with me. C. I cant talk about it to my parents or Ill get kicked out and D. My religious affiliation, say muslim, may disown m (or JW or Catholicism or so have you)

Its really not about behavior at all. Once you understand the differences, I think the bible would make more sense in how it applies to homosexuals. It refers to their (Straight, Gay, Bi, Etc) actions not attractions...

so, my oposition with your view isnt what you think about the behavior. Thats a given. Its associating ones behavior with their sexual orientation. Fads have nothing to do with it.

You got me in a good mood watching a movie. I wil go back to address your post if you are willing to discuss it. I see this in a loto f inority groups,African American, Deaf, and so forth. It really bothers me. But going to that chat room (visiting Native American reservations, socializing with Deaf individuals, learning more about my racial history), makes me see how much christians (not specific to christianity) treat other people base ont heir beliefs People get killed over it. Its not your beliefs, its reinventing the wheel.

To be continued?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's about about 160 pages.

I get a sample on Nook or Amazon

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I agree that there is a lot of unnessesary prejudice around the sexuality issue today....but having said that, I also see that many young ones are being swept along with what has now become something trendy among teens. School children are now forming same sex relationships.....but not because they have gender issues. They are exposed to ideas when they don't have the maturity to make adult decisions about what is essentially adult activity.

Some students are. I only seen that recently, only mostly so I cant generalize. I do have uncomfortable feelings about the rest of the letters AVCDEFA etc. I went to my first PRIDE Day and Festival. PRIDE Day is supposed to be a Rights Movement. It started I think, in the 40s or so. Homosexual crimes and anti-gay bias been around for, gosh, centuries. So, I get ya with fads.

But you are generalizing thousands of people from all over the world who have no clue what LGBTQ is. Its just them, their community, their family. The world is huge. LGBTQ doesnt figure into not even half percent of it.

Yeah. Where I live, sexual behavior is at a high point. Straights men being with other men. Older adults marrying other adults. Its definitely not a teen thing nor did it start with the teens. Its one thing to disagree with teen behavior. I mean, having sex period can make you subjectable to STDS and risk of pregnancy etc. The OP is saying this is not worldwide thing. These teens are not thinking of who they have sex with. They are wondering if their parents will hit them if they say they feel something different than their peers. People get murdered just for saying, he, Im different.


It has nothing to do with fads and who people go to bed with. That is not a gay thing. Thats a human thing.

As for gender issues, Im not transgender; so, I cannot and dont have the right to speak of someone elses experiences based on my biases. However, my personal bias (and yours) doesnt change the medical nature of how hormones work. There is a condition (I have to look it up again if you want to look at it) where a man is born with more women chromosones. So, they take ont he physiological and psychological of a woman. The psychological part it depends on the society. A lot are anti-transgender, so...

People are born with so many different type of things that do affect our state of minds. Yours. Mine. All people. Its a human thing. Not a disorder. We may not get it. we may not agree. that doesnt mean its not medical.

I was reading recently that some young teens are being given puberty inhibiting hormones with the approval of their patents, in preparation for later transsexual surgery. Unfortunately, this is backfiring because inhibiting puberty can damage a person's natural sexual development and these ones can change their minds as they get older (and a bit more mature) and realise that they don't want to change their gender, but have come to terms with just being gay. This whole issue has raised some serious problems for those in a hurry to jump on what has become a popular bandwagon. It's not all good....there are some serious consequences.

Yeah. I disagree with that myself. I feel if one is a proper age and a lot of other factors involved before even considering such a leap. Gender dysphoria is specific to how one feels in their own body. If you looked in the mirror and felt you are not you, it could be a lot of things either something you were born with or something else. We dont have supportive environments to where people are told they can be comfortable with who they are and how they want to be. Of course being of age would help with those decisions, but its uncomfortable.

I agree with you. I just dont agree generalizing people as a whole. There are medical basis hormones and gender varity regardless of who we are attracted to. Its not specific to behavior. We chose our behavior. We dont chose our hormones.

If a person is born gay, because there is a hiccup in the genetic coding, there is little that can be done to make them straight. But what we see happening is an inordinate concentration on gender fluidity aimed at immature children......to the ridiculous level of suggesting even removing of gender from birth certificates. Seriously....it's just gone too far.

I see it like this. Person A is attracted to person B because their hormones and psychological make up feels person A is attracted their B peer. While behavior and marriage are social constructs, attraction is not. Since I believe any human can be with another human in appropriate circumstances, you can fit any person in A or B and the view is the same.

I can see why you say its gone to far. That doesnt invalidate the persons attractions and hormones that arent desiginated black and white and nothing in between. The human body doesnt work that way.

What you are doing is generalizing a huge set of people on a small percentage of activists. You have LGBTQ on this site who has similar feelings of it being rediculous as you do. Same with me. I see what you are saying. My father sticked me in with One-Of-Them when I was talking about my first day at PRIDE. It bothed the mess* out of me because Im not an activist. Im young compared and isolated from a lot of the activities you disagree with. I have no connection with the outside world as many people of many counries are likewise if not more so.

Its hard not to generalize when we have strong feelings about a subject. I never had any bad experiences with christianity and I dont like a lot of the major stuff because it of its view on human sacrifice among other major things of the faith. That doesnt mean all christians fall under my label or morals, it just means I disagree. I know you cant, but that insight on disagreeing without generalizing would help put things in perspective outside the media and activisim. You can read the progression of it LGBTQ Things werent like that all the time. Probably the 70s when it flared up. Just making an educated guess.

If a gay person wishes to become a Christian, then they cannot expect that God will alter his moral laws to accommodate what is an abnormality in gender identification. It's in the wiring. Imperfection is our lot, thanks to the disobedience of our first parents.

That depends on what you mean. Gender dysphoria doesnt exclude someone from being christian anymore than my body arroused by women would tell me if I have the ability to love chirst. Neither male nor female in salvation. How one identifies is not the same as how on behaves.

I can see what you are saying. Youre referring to behaviors. That is different than gender identiifcation and hormones. Many transgender dont even go through the full transition. It depends on how dysphoric they are and resources and social support network.

I wasnt raised in a dangerous environment. I was more medical concerned, so Im blessed not to have anti-gay experiences. However, anti-gay religious bias influences how children grow up. I would assume a lot of the trangender issues you are talking about is a jack knife to how society tells us what men and women are supposed to be like. A lot of it is highly cultural.

The best I can give is the Deaf Community (sorry. case in point). Many of the Deaf do not see their hearing loss as part of who they are as a person. Some are born Deaf, so what. It isnt a disability. No mixed wiring. People are born in so many colors (no pun) that to say people are supposed to be black or white is totally, how do I say.... um.

The bottom line is....God hates immorality, regardless of gender.

If you are not in a scriptural marriage (which Jesus states is the union of male and female) then there is no room for same sex relationships.

I disagree a person cannot marry another person without peaking whats between their legs first. But, that aside, it just makes me sad how your views influence sooooo many. When I go to this other site, sometimes I want to cry because a lot of what you say is so opposite than what these teens experience. I mean, a lot of people I spoke with dont even know what Pride means. Thats not universal.

Participating in any sexual relationship outside of marriage is a choice....no matter what gender we are. If we want to please God, rather than pleasing ourselves, then it will require sacrifice. We all have to sacrifice something, but the reward for doing so will be worth it, according to the Bible. Not all are willing to give that to God, opting to take what they can for themselves now, regardless of the consequences. It's all about our choices....it always has been.

Yes. Behavior is a choice. You are mixing the two. The bible talks about behavior. It doesnt mention attraction. I dont understand how a boat load of scientific discovery (light bulbs and RVs and highrises) is considered okay, but when someone finds out we arent black or white but gray, since that medical discover conflicts with our social and religious values, its wrong.

There are differences. Youre mixing them up and using the bible to confirm what you mixed up. In itself, its logical. When you understand the human body, you can disagree with behaviors till the cows come home, but like the last sentence of my OP, least get the facts straight even if you disagree with it.

Dont take it personal.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I was reading recently that some young teens are being given puberty inhibiting hormones with the approval of their patents, in preparation for later transsexual surgery. Unfortunately, this is backfiring because inhibiting puberty can damage a person's natural sexual development and these ones can change their minds as they get older (and a bit more mature) and realise that they don't want to change their gender, but have come to terms with just being gay.

They are given plenty of time to change their minds. They are given puberty blockers to delay going through a puberty that would cause them have great distress (dysphoria), causing them to develop characteristics they don't want. Imagine if you were still a woman but had a male voice, facial hair, hairy chest and back, etc. You'd be horrified. That's what a trans woman faces. Giving them a choice can be a lifesaver. If they decide not to go on HRT, they simply stop taking the puberty blockers. Honestly, I wish I had that choice when I was younger. I wouldn't have to have chest surgery since I wouldn't have developed breasts in the first place. I would likely be taller, too.

Transsexuals are not "just gay", despite what you think. You seem to be pushing that narrative. We can be of any sexual orientation, including being asexual.

 

[Trackdayguy]

Dont let those with a bigoted and narrow minded perception of reality drag you down. People believe what they believe because of the way they were socialized. One would have hoped that religious people would have been more loving, accepting and tolerant, sadly that is not the case.

I have been in an Open Marriage for 41 years with a bi-sexual women. We live in as Poly family, my wifes long term girlfriend & my Japanese girlfriend, (yes she half my age) It's wonderful, no strife, just wonderful. Sadly every sunday when we go to church the majority give us a wide berth when we walk in the door. You can't even begin to imagine the abuse we have heard from supposedly God loving people. In the end it goes in one ear out out the other, because we put it down to blindness.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

They are given plenty of time to change their minds. They are given puberty blockers to delay going through a puberty that would cause them have great distress (dysphoria), causing them to develop characteristics they don't want. Imagine if you were still a woman but had a male voice, facial hair, hairy chest and back, etc. You'd be horrified. That's what a trans woman faces. Giving them a choice can be a lifesaver. If they decide not to go on HRT, they simply stop taking the puberty blockers. Honestly, I wish I had that choice when I was younger. I wouldn't have to have chest surgery since I wouldn't have developed breasts in the first place. I would likely be taller, too.

Transsexuals are not "just gay", despite what you think. You seem to be pushing that narrative. We can be of any sexual orientation, including being asexual.

I think there is misunderstanding. I think @Deeje sees sex and gender together; so, saying feeling like a male/female but seeing oneself as opposite sounds discombobulated.

You would need to define gender apart from sex. When we see gender and sex together, it isnt just biological and ones genitelia. Its similar to how a transgender would feel in the body he or she is meant to have. Its how one thinks. If it was not different than ones sex, there would be no need to transition.

How do you define gender as a foundation for the need to transition without it being an external issue. Snyone can do rather an internal one which only people who have gender dysphoria experience?

Explain the internal nature of why and the nature of transition. I dont think it mean such to Deejee if its all external and teens just doing it juts because its a fad.

 

[Deeje]

You got to at least look at it from a historic view not a media view. I mean, you can put down homosexuality till the cows come home, but your argument (point of defense) is the people not the act. Behaviors dont have fads. People do.

People have fads about behaviors (especially young adolescents) and since sex is no longer taboo among the young, they feel free to express themselves sexually any way they want.
Science teaches them that they are just animals....so its OK to act without moral restraint. Hormones are going crazy at that age so giving them a new direction is just catering to their adolescent lust IMO.

To identify as gay today carries no real condemnation as it did years ago.....but I wonder if it has gone too far the other way, as is often the case with moral issues.

It does bother me that sooooo many people all over the world who have no idea what we are talking about (no colors. or anything like that). They just know A. my hormones are acting up B. what is wrong with me. C. I cant talk about it to my parents or Ill get kicked out and D. My religious affiliation, say muslim, may disown m (or JW or Catholicism or so have you)

Its really not about behavior at all. Once you understand the differences, I think the bible would make more sense in how it applies to homosexuals. It refers to their (Straight, Gay, Bi, Etc) actions not attractions...

If you are raised with religious constraints to your conduct then it is good to talk about your issues with your parents or other to the teachers of your faith.
No subject should be taboo and honesty should be respected. No one asks to be born with gender dysphoria. It needs to be understood, not condemned. And I do understand that gender identity is not necessarily anything to do with sex.....but it always ends up that way as hormones will often have their way.

We have hope that our children will follow our lead, and stay with the morality we have taught them, but they are individuals who will make their own choices and we have no control over those choices once they become of age. If we desire to exercise our own choices, then we must allow our adult children to make their own choices as well. They might not agree with ours and that is their right. But if the person is adult enough to have sex, then they are also adult enough to move out of home and into independent living arrangements where there will be no one to stress about their chosen lifestyle. That to me is fair enough. Anyone who lives under my roof will abide by my rules...otherwise...there's the door. That is not a gender issue...its a moral issue for us.

so, my oposition with your view isnt what you think about the behavior. Thats a given. Its associating ones behavior with their sexual orientation. Fads have nothing to do with it.

If you read my original post again, you will see where the issue is for me. God judges the action, not the orientation. God will not judge what a person can't help. I have a friend with Tourette's Syndrome. His language would curl your hair so he does not attend our Christian meetings because he does not want to cause offense to his brothers and sisters or bring that kind of language into a place of worship. He listens on the phone in the comfort and privacy of his own home. God does not condemn him for his foul language because it is caused by an illness. He does not condemn himself because he knows that God understands his problem.
Gay members of our brotherhood feel the same way. They would not engage in same sex relationships because they know it would offend our God, so they don't put themselves in positions to start what they cannot finish. They busy themselves in God's work and leave themselves in his very loving hands.

From the Bible's perspective, people who are not married are not entitled to have sex. It is a privilege, not a right.....it was designed to create babies in a new family arrangement. Marriage originally ensured that children born into that family were welcomed. Pregnancy was never intended to be the unwanted side effect of one's sex life. Perverted sexual practices were not meant to be a part of marriage either.

Homosexuality has been around as long as sin has infected the human race. It will continue to be seen and now it is even welcomed into the present world with moral issues failing at every turn. We have become the immoral animals that science claims we are.....more's the pity.

I am saying that too much is made of this whole gender fluidity issue with kids who are not mature enough to make serious decisions about it.
Adults will answer for their adult decisions, but to put those choices to children is little short of abuse IMO.

 

[Trackdayguy]

You can’t be serious. It’s this type of judgement that had alienated the masses from a loving God.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Its not a debate section folks

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think there is misunderstanding. I think @Deeje sees sex and gender together; so, saying feeling like a male/female but seeing oneself as opposite sounds discombobulated.

You would need to define gender apart from sex. When we see gender and sex together, it isnt just biological and ones genitelia. Its similar to how a transgender would feel in the body he or she is meant to have. Its how one thinks. If it was not different than ones sex, there would be no need to transition.

How do you define gender as a foundation for the need to transition without it being an external issue. Snyone can do rather an internal one which only people who have gender dysphoria experience?

Explain the internal nature of why and the nature of transition. I dont think it mean such to Deejee if its all external and teens just doing it juts because its a fad.

I don't know what you mean when you say "external issue". I'm not sure what you're asking, but if you're asking what gender identity is, that's what Google and Wikipedia is for: Gender identity - Wikipedia

You can say sex identity, too. We transition to fix a birth defect, basically. It's to ease dysphoria and feel at home in our bodies.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Its not a debate section folks

Sorry, I'm not trying to debate. Was just trying to correct something.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

People have fads about behaviors (especially young adolescents) and since sex is no longer taboo among the young, they feel free to express themselves sexually any way they want.

Science teaches them that they are just animals....so its OK to act without moral restraint. Hormones are going crazy at that age so giving them a new direction is just catering to their adolescent lust IMO.

To identify as gay today carries no real condemnation as it did years ago.....but I wonder if it
has gone too far the other way, as is often the case with moral issues.

If science tells us we are just animals, than you and I would be in the same boat as those younger than us. Age helps with sorting feelings out; but, it doesnt make us less animals than our younger peers.

I honestly dont believe the sex-thing as a whole. Unless Im an alien, there are a lot of cultures different than mine with whom sex-norms are more or less extreme than western views here in the U.S. Even in the U.S., depending on south or midwest you have more traditional viewst han say CA and NY etc. VA State where I live was very relunctant with any gay-thing until they were overruled by federal decisions.

Youre sticking me in the same boat. I disagree all christians think of us as inheritedly gay-sinners, but I have yet to meet a christian who does not think we are inheritedly-human with no gayness nor straightness attached.

Identifying as gay and being gay (straight men with straight men for example) are two totally different things. Catholic priests cant identify as gay; and, that does not mean some arnt. It just means they put god over marriage. But THAT is a different topic. Just raising a point.

People have fads about behaviors (especially young adolescents) and since sex is no longer taboo among the young, they feel free to express themselves sexually any way they want.
Science teaches them that they are just animals....so its OK to act without moral restraint. Hormones are going crazy at that age so giving them a new direction is just catering to their adolescent lust IMO.

To identify as gay today carries no real condemnation as it did years ago.....but I wonder if it has gone too far the other way, as is often the case with moral issues.

If you are raised with religious constraints to your conduct then it is good to talk about your issues with your parents or other to the teachers of your faith.

No subject should be taboo and honesty should be respected. No one asks to be born with gender dysphoria. It needs to be understood, not condemned. And I do understand that gender identity is not necessarily anything to do with sex.....but it always ends up that way as hormones will often have their way.

The latter half, thats good you understand that at the least. As for talking about immoral issues, usually we would do that in regards to behavior. But if you are telling them they are wrong because of their hormons that is totally different and not immoral. I dont know how I would address my childs attractions if I were christian. However, I know I wouldnt deny them love. They would have to follow who I follow and if god tells them they found love where I disagree, who am I to judge their relationship with god?

I can give them guidence and strict rules until they are out the house. One can adult, god does what wants. You can blame it on his misconception of gods word. It highly depends on the person, really. Some people dont see attraction as important insofar to challenge their parents over behavior. They do want to be loved and told they are not broken just because they react to people with the same parts.

We have hope that our children will follow our lead, and stay with the morality we have taught them, but they are individuals who will make their own choices and we have no control over those choices once they become of age. If we desire to exercise our own choices, then we must allow our adult children to make their own choices as well. They might not agree with ours and that is their right. But if the person is adult enough to have sex, then they are also adult enough to move out of home and into independent living arrangements where there will be no one to stress about their chosen lifestyle. That to me is fair enough. Anyone who lives under my roof will abide by my rules...otherwise...there's the door. That is not a gender issue...its a moral issue for us.

True. Remember. You are talking about behaviors. Of course we hope our children follow after their parents and make good behaviors. No child is forced to have sex with any person (ideally). I think its more christian parents are telling their children they are sinners long before that child does anything. Its one thing to teach a child good sex morals. Its another to degrade that childs attractions because you feel his attraction will overrule his responsibility to his parents and faith.

If you read my original post again, you will see where the issue is for me. God judges the action, not the orientation.

God will not judge what a person can't help. I have a friend with Tourette's Syndrome. His language would curl your hair so he does not attend our Christian meetings because he does not want to cause offense to his brothers and sisters or bring that kind of language into a place of worship. He listens on the phone in the comfort and privacy of his own home. God does not condemn him for his foul language because it is caused by an illness. He does not condemn himself because he knows that God understands his problem.

Gay members of our brotherhood feel the same way. They would not engage in same sex relationships because they know it would offend our God, so they don't put themselves in positions to start what they cannot finish. They busy themselves in God's work and leave themselves in his very loving hands.

Youd have to read my posts more clearly. I have to break apart your posts so I can read them in chuncks. That said, yes, you are talking about behaviors/actions as if they somehow relate to a persons orientation.

A straight persons orientation and someone with a disability are two totally different things. A straight person isnt disabiled anymore than someone with blondhair and blue eyes. Not a good comparison.

This is better: People should not engage in same-sex relationships.

Not gay. Not straight. People.

If it is about the action and not orientation, you have to knock off the LGBTQ and say people.

From the Bible's perspective, people who are not married are not entitled to have sex. It is a privilege, not a right.....it was designed to create babies in a new family arrangement. Marriage originally ensured that children born into that family were welcomed. Pregnancy was never intended to be the unwanted side effect of one's sex life. Perverted sexual practices were not meant to be a part of marriage either.

Yes. That makes sense. My issue is judging and lack of proper information. It makes me sad to see things you say dont apply to a lot of people who have these experiences before they do anything.

Homosexuality has been around as long as sin has infected the human race. It will continue to be seen and now it is even welcomed into the present world with moral issues failing at every turn. We have become the immoral animals that science claims we are.....more's the pity.

Homosexuality, as we know nowadays, is an attraction just as heterosexuality.

In the bible, does it mention that gay people have same-sex sex, or just people in general?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't know what you mean when you say "external issue". I'm not sure what you're asking, but if you're asking what gender identity is, that's what Google and Wikipedia is for: Gender identity - Wikipedia

You can say sex identity, too. We transition to fix a birth defect, basically. It's to ease dysphoria and feel at home in our bodies.

I know the terms. Thats different than hearing it from someone who experiences it (in general not specificaly any person). Everyone has their own views. Like I dont prefer to be called lesbian nor homosexual. That doesnt change the written definition of the word, but Im not defined by my attraction..

So words are mutlifacited. That said, since Im not trangender, I dont know (and others) dont know what it means not to be male or female. Like any topic, give us personal insight.

That. And, I dont think Deejee knows the difference between sex and gender. Since she is judging people by their gender as if who they are somehow makes them zombies to have sex with who we are attracted to.

With the external thing, it took me awhile how to phrase it. If sex and gender are not aligned, if they are different, by what means does someone transgender associate his or her gender dys* with the sex he or she wants to transition?

I have no big opinion over transgender. You answered my question years ago. I just think Deejee is seeing only the external/sex. Without definition of gender (from the transgender persons view), its hard to separate the two. Especially, when we arent transgender, how would anyone expect us to understand it from a Wiki site?

I just hope she is acceptable to understand what she is disagreeing with (last sentence of my OP)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I know the terms. Thats different than hearing it from someone who experiences it (in general not specificaly any person). Everyone has their own views. Like I dont prefer to be called lesbian nor homosexual. That doesnt change the written definition of the word, but Im not defined by my attraction..

So words are mutlifacited. That said, since Im not trangender, I dont know (and others) dont know what it means not to be male or female. Like any topic, give us personal insight.

That. And, I dont think Deejee knows the difference between sex and gender. Since she is judging people by their gender as if who they are somehow makes them zombies to have sex with who we are attracted to.

With the external thing, it took me awhile how to phrase it. If sex and gender are not aligned, if they are different, by what means does someone transgender associate his or her gender dys* with the sex he or she wants to transition?

I have no big opinion over transgender. You answered my question years ago. I just think Deejee is seeing only the external/sex. Without definition of gender (from the transgender persons view), its hard to separate the two. Especially, when we arent transgender, how would anyone expect us to understand it from a Wiki site?

I just hope she is acceptable to understand what she is disagreeing with (last sentence of my OP)

Well, that's a lot to go into. You're basically asking me to explain my whole experience of self as a trans man.