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Let's talk about the First Amendment....(Video)

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by tytlyf, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind's Eye

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    Is this guy right? Republicans hate the 1A more than Democrats?

     
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  2. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Well-Known Member

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    1st amendment freedom of worship to practice religions? The 1st Amendment is designed to allow a state like alabama to have a flag of Presbyterianism, that's "Promoting". States can have public universities intended to better educate their state, and we get thousands of dollars off in-state tuition. 50% of money is still the state. Their "public" universities can be 'internationally acclaimed' with only international staff. The entire university system can have this blindside about what does actual free practice stand for.

    They discriminate on the protected statuses of the '64 Equal Opportunity acts in Admissions. Its not hard to believe at all the ongoing pattern applied to everyone else.The University with 4.0 GPA and 800 GMAT would give you explicitly, that the only issue is religion and the religion that appears offensive to others or appears to be being spread. The problem here is pride! We would be so happy for graduate committees to silently sort of sift thrugh and choose their students! Everyone is so happy for dominating power over their environment. The problem is being so Proud of it! They need to come up to you and discriminate your religion. None of that is true, you could just say corrosive or abrasive personality, but none of that is true. The Universities and our public universities in states where religions are promoted discriminate students of Korean or American ethnicities that are practicing the state's religion.
     
    #2 MikeDwight, Sep 19, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
  3. fantome profane

    fantome profane Have you read the Whistleblower complaint?
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    I am a big fan of beau, and this is one of his best!

    upload_2019-9-19_12-2-25.jpeg
     
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  4. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Well-Known Member

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    Well its just the middle of the video is about professors. It won't be any confusing matter at all. About half of them are interested in their moral impression put out on their students, I mean an elevated personality. Symptoms include not having a laser pen for their powerpoints. Half of those got some sort of search-their-students-soul syndrome. Half of them got to get with their Provost on how to keep teaching soulless wretches.
     
  5. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind's Eye

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    ? Where do you come up with this stuff?
    You didn't go to college did you?
     
  6. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Well-Known Member

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    Ya , they had that drop-off the kids scene college movie, there wasn't a dorm because I drove, whatever, everybody was like, have fun... Every hall had songs from the skateboarding soundtracks.
     
  7. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Yes. It was a righteous rant. The right complains about government interference in people's affairs and wants to use the government to intervene in (other) people's affairs.
     
  8. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    Dunno if s/he has, but I have. four different ones. I have several degrees. The only college I have attended that was NOT tilted so far to the left that they were in danger of floating off the San Francisco docks was an online university where the only interaction I had was in the preprogrammed courses themselves, and even they were ever so gently shoved left, when the topic was about sociology, culture or the actual teaching of kids.

    .....and since I didn't go back to college for those degrees until after I was fifty, you can't accuse me of being a mind numbed typical college student. In two of those colleges, the only reason I wasn't thrown out of class was because I was older than the professor and wouldn't put up with the crap s/he was trying to peddle. I flat out told one statistics teacher that the questions on her survey were too subjective and biased left to be useful, and wrote my own. She gave me an F for that assignment. I appealed...and for the next five years it was MY questions which were used as an example of how to write survey questions.

    I had to stop watching that video when he got to the 'they protest speeches' bit. THEY DON'T JUST PROTEST SPEECHES. They threaten speakers. they cancel invitations. They refuse to allow conservative speakers on their campuses. This guy is throwing out percentages of Republicans who don't like this thing or that thing....and he's probably right.

    But I notice that he hasn't given us any percentages of Democrats who want 'hate speech' made illegal, who sue for 'micro aggression,' who have NO problems with those college students who destroy the cars of conservative speakers who show up for speech engagements that they have been 'disinvited' to.....generally the excuse for the 'disinvitation' is concern for the safety of the speaker, btw.

    The big difference that I saw...and still see...is the length to which the left will go to protest and go against the freedom of speech of anybody who disagrees with them. If it were simply signs and boos at the speeches, fine. Conservatives do that to liberals, too. But it's not.

    It's physical threats. It's people attacking octogenarians for wearing MAGA hats. It's colleges attempting to put a bakery out of business for holding a couple of shoplifters for the police....because the shoplifters were black. It's destroying entire city parks, defacing and defecating upon police cars and doing other serious public harm. Protesting police action? Fine...but it's not just yelling, is it? It's throwing things at them. threatening harm. interfering with them as they attempt to do their jobs.

    Seems to me that you guys want it all your way. the Conservatives MUST NOT have a problem with YOUR ability to do and say whatever you want, no matter what damage you cause, but WE have to agree with you in all things, or be subject to damage.

    Should one be free to burn the American Flag? Yes. Should those who hold the American Flag as a symbol and think it should not be burned be mad about it? yes. Should one be free to protest during the Pledge of Allegiance? Sure. Should those who think that this attitude is wrong protest in return? Absolutely.

    It seems to me that you guys think that the First amendment is to ensure the ability of everybody to agree with you.

    When in reality, it is to ensure the ability to speak of those who do NOT agree with you. Liberals are not punished for using their power to coerce students into agreeing with their political points of view, no matter what this guy claims. You know that dean of students at Oberlin who almost single handedly cost the university forty four million bucks because she was so involved in attempting to destroy that bakery referred to in this post?

    She still has her job.

    Enough said.
     
  9. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    During the current presidential administration I think so. In the vid he makes a point at the end that the Democrats also have opposed free speech occasionally and that he is frustrated with them over it. I've seen it from both parties. In the current administration yes, I think its the Reps.
     
  10. Daemon Sophic

    Daemon Sophic Avatar in flux

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    Definitely in this administration, but I would also say that such hypocrisy in the Repubs’ efforts (knowing or witless) to dismantle our experiment in democracy has been continuously building, ever since Rush Limbaugh left sports broadcasting and Ronald Reagan became POTUS. Trump is just a terminal symptom of the rot.
     
  11. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    I agree most colleges have a left bias. However, I have not seen any colleges where there is not a conservative or libertarian presence in both professors and students. Perhaps at small liberal arts colleges like reed or evergreen, but even there i bet we would find plenty of libertarians
    You are too quick to take the actions of some and paint them on the actions of all. Plenty protest without violating any assault and battery laws.
    Nope that is you stuffing a strawman.
    Be mad or protest, but do not try to enact laws against speech.
    More straw.
    This is too big of a statement to be held up by this.

    So no, not enough said.

    You honestly believe that some free speech (boycotts) is equivalent to a felony (extortion) without any compelling government interest. Thus it follows if you believe that felonies should be punished by law, you believe some free speech should be punished by law without any compelling government interest. You are not a defender of free speech.
     
  12. tytlyf

    tytlyf The Mind's Eye

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    How are you defining a college tilting to the left? The students on the campus or the teachers? What?
    If you think it's the teachers, how would you even know what their political leanings are?
    America has a left bias, are you surprised that's in our schools too?

    If you watched the video, he pointed out that when professors get reprimanded for hate speech by a college, it's usually a left leaning professor. So the argument should be, "why are colleges cracking down on liberals and letting conservative teachers run rampant?!"

    The left doesn't whine and cry about it.
     
  13. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Well-Known Member

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    Ugh. .. but … I'm so tired of this fake alt right thing... Donald Trump was never actually president. this weird conspiracy alt right would have 3 bored people... Sounds like you have an opinion for your professors or something? Hey I just had clarifying questions with hand raised and they still get to cancel the entire class for "security".
     
  14. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    Not all extortion is a felony, obviously. 'felony' isn't even included in the definition of extortion, which is: obtaining, or attempting to gain, something of value through threats of physical violence or financial harm, or harm to the reputation.

    In NO definition of 'extortion,' is there a REQUIREMENT that it be a felony. It can be treated as one, and should be treated as a felony in certain circumstances...circumstances that I have very carefully and rather narrowly described.

    Boycotts are NOT free speech, Ever. They are, at most, an attempt to eliminate someone else's free speech.

    It's why I'm against them.

    Analogy: you have a business in a very conservative, one religion town, on their main street. Everybody else goes to the little Evangelical church on the corner. They have a Christmas parade with a Nativity float. Their school provides space for religious classes...not taught by the paid teachers, but by local religious leaders after school or before it, but on school grounds to those kids whose parents want it.

    But this little business is owned by a couple of young gay atheists (who, given what I just wrote above, have to be either the bravest couple of people, or the dumbest, in the world) who opened a tattoo parlor. Now, their neighbors don't LIKE the business, and grumble, but the young gay couple did something really impossible. They advertise "F*** Trump" temporary tattoos in their front window, along with a sign saying that they work on people wearing MAGA hats or who otherwise supported Trump. (Such a business actually exists, btw...it's not a tattoo parlor, but it very much exists)

    Oh, my.

    Do they have the right to their political opinions? Do they have the right to put the "F Trump' ads up and refuse to work on Trump supporters? Are they exercising their freedom of speech?

    I think they are.

    So what do you think the neighbors should do?

    They can object, demonstrate, carry signs, attempt to get a tattoo while wearing a MAGA hat and sue for discrimination (well, that works when the tables are turned and the business is refusing to serve a gay couple...why not this? ) Is this free speech? I think so.

    Or they can boycott; attempt to run the business out of town by seeing to it that it doesn't do ANY business. Either that, or they can force that business to take down the sign, change their policy, put up "MAGA" tattoos, put a sign outside their door welcoming all political opinions, and apologize for having an opinion different from the mainstream in their area. Is that free speech...or an attempt to shut down the first amendment rights of the business?

    I think it's the second.


    When one attempts to coerce someone to abandon his right to free speech by threatening to do financial harm, to shut down his business if he doesn't toe the 'correct' line, it CROSSES that line from freedom to speak YOUR mind to forcing someone else to shut up.

    And I'm against it.

    Boycotts are extortion. They are an attempt to take away someone else's right to free speech by force. I am absolutely amazed that you all don't GET that.
     
  15. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    The left doesn't whine and cry about it?

    (snort)

    Now really. WHO came up with terms like 'white privilege' and 'micro-aggression?"

    Politically correct speech ALL comes from the left.
     
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  16. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    I admit. I am confused.

    As for you having clarifying questions with your hand raised....exactly what sort of questions WERE they? I've been in a great many classes with many students asking clarifying questions. None of them have been 'canceled for security."

    I have this vision of the 'clarifying questions' being along the lines of "well, isn't knocking the hat off of an eighty year old if you don't like the MAGA political message on the hat a good thing?" or "if I use my raised hand to grab the "p...y hat off my neighbor, would that be a problem?" or "what if I threw a rock through the classroom window with a message wrapped around it saying that Rush Limbaugh has no business setting foot on campus, never mind giving a commencement speech," would that be considered 'freedom of speech?" or "what if I hit you over the head with my "MAGA" poster, would that be wrong?"

    My version of 'clarifying questions' were all along the line of "Hasn't anybody figured out the name of the 'Pearl Poet,'" or "is there a reason you prefer Tolkien's translation of Beowulf rather than that of Seamus Heaney? Heaney is funnier." Or, if you wanted to get REALLY controversial, "so, you are saying that the water based economy of the early south Americans is similar to that of the early Egyptions, even though the climates were so vastly different; is there a specific reason for that?"
     
  17. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    I am not sure what you are rallying about here. But it is not extortion for a group of townspeople to engage in civic discourse about the type of establishment they want in their community and to engage in a boycott to shape their communities toward their political desires.

    See NAACP v. Claiborne Hardware Co., 458 U.S. 886 (1982)

    Boycotts are not extortion. They can violate various statutes such as libel and slander as seen in the case you keep touting or anti-trust laws as seen in cases like this: FTC v. Superior Ct. TLA, 493 U.S. 411 (1990)

    Furthermore there is a question whether statutes can be enacted that prohibit certain boycotts such as the BDS as it interferes with international trade. However, the aclu has successfully defended against these laws in some situations, we will see where the dust settles on that question.

    Hell, in your world hustler should have taken churches for all they were worth and more. You are free to engage in political discourse. That includes organizing a boycott effort to affect political change. Unless that right is overruled by some other reasoning, which has a compelling government interest or involves a prohibited type of speech, boycotts are indeed free speech. This means you are free to engage in a boycott as an individual, or as an organization if you are not breaking some other law. Laws restricting boycotts need to be reasoned and have firm grounds because you are very much talking about limiting speech.

    If you want to have a discussion about whether or not boycotts are free speech, I am happy to do so. We are not going to pursue your discussion about boycotts as extortion.

    Extortion is a crime. And a threat of a boycott or an actual boycott to pursue something of value could be considered extortion. But just because some mammals are cats does not mean all mammals are cats. Boycotts are not extortion.
     
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  18. Bob Jones

    Bob Jones Prove It!

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    Remember the Supreme Court has the final word concerning freedom of speech.SO far freedom of speech has been upheld. I think last year a litigant attempted to carve out a hate speech exception only to be thrown out of court, I might add a conservative court.
     
  19. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Well-Known Member

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    Ya, ya, diversity, ya , ya. What did you all do to it, ya ya. Seems like I'm moving big dollars positively, never stare down anybody for anything, diversity has a dozen cursewords, that's nneither here nor there, diversity gets to extort through 'harassment' definition, cops, and physical assault.

    That's neither here nor there! THey require a follow-up availability like facebook, obviously that's going to sound far more pessimistic by requirement, or failed in the , active physical scenario, for disclosed reasons alone, its pretty predictably narrow in usage. Then other people pick it up trying to know something about it! That somehow makes people feel totally here and relevant! What do people do, about diversity giving you a goose egg and other people coming along, and spitting goose eggs at you?

    You know all the African American Churches are a self-willed split off in theology, like, Liberation theology usually. Most other Churches Korean Church or Russian, Bulgarian, Dutch, they're part of divisible Communions. The Reformed and the Orthodox have compartmentalized Communions. What am I supposed to pick up on, in foreign languages? That's not clear at all.
     
  20. MikeDwight

    MikeDwight Well-Known Member

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    Everybody has their own version. Several of the classmates were openly proudly 'drunk' and that they were 'there'. And the whole class was set on a tinderbox of fragile uncertainty with the only glue around some novice 2nd year professor trying to look amazing with an ego, 'you'll be armed and dangerous'. To me, the whole class is an autism nightmare, now do I have even very Minor autism, of Course not! Anyway the universal standard excitement level, standard behavior for a "Student" toward a "class" and a "professor" literally has some downward spiral effect. I Did raise a hand and have a real curious question "does he teach his grandmother the same way?" . I don't know, pretty soon, some student wrote in said they were scared about "Me", I'd say that either way. I did put my head on my desk a few times, I should have sat in the back.

    And ya really, they were intractable and mean about "My" situations. They moved to distance learning. I don't place any of that on students or me either.
     
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