Let's talk about sexual harrassment and sexual assault...

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Okay, let's look at some scenarios and see what we think qualifies as sexual harrassment or sexual assault:

• Say you are a woman, working in an office, and a person in authority, your boss, or your boss's boss, over lunch suggests that you are very attractive and it would be nice if we could arrange something after work...
• Now do the same thing, except say you are a man
• Okay, now let's make it worse -- take the previous two scenarios, and replace the boss or superior with a person of the same gender as you

Okay, those were the easy ones...now let's try something hard:

• What if someone of the opposite (or worse, same) gender hovers a little too close at the photocopier, and asks breathily if you need a little help?
• What if they drop a hand on your hand, while doing so?

I won't continue to the more obvious examples, but I'll ask this question: at what point -- and how -- do you make it clear that this is making you uncomfortable (if, in fact, it is...otherwise, we're on a new topic)? And what do you expect should happen next? Is stopping the offending activity enough, or is an apology required?

And which of those activities, when the offender becomes famous or important, will you consider revealing to the press?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I don't know the answers to many of those questions. For light incidences, I suggest the one who did it have to watch a mandatory training video, and get off with a warning.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Okay, let's look at some scenarios and see what we think qualifies as sexual harrassment or sexual assault:

• Say you are a woman, working in an office, and a person in authority, your boss, or your boss's boss, over lunch suggests that you are very attractive and it would be nice if we could arrange something after work...
• Now do the same thing, except say you are a man
• Okay, now let's make it worse -- take the previous two scenarios, and replace the boss or superior with a person of the same gender as you

Okay, those were the easy ones...now let's try something hard:

• What if someone of the opposite (or worse, same) gender hovers a little too close at the photocopier, and asks breathily if you need a little help?
• What if they drop a hand on your hand, while doing so?

I won't continue to the more obvious examples, but I'll ask this question: at what point -- and how -- do you make it clear that this is making you uncomfortable (if, in fact, it is...otherwise, we're on a new topic)? And what do you expect should happen next? Is stopping the offending activity enough, or is an apology required?

And which of those activities, when the offender becomes famous or important, will you consider revealing to the press?

All I can think of is this...

 

[Twilight Hue]

All I can think of is this...

Oh by the way, it seems Hillary let him off with a warning...err... maybe she just let him off without a warning aside from the obvious*.

All I can say is sexual harassment is discretionary and entirely in the eyes (and hands) of two people.

What's a policy going to ever do?

*It's Donald Trump's fault.

 

[Sunstone]

I dealt with this sort of stuff when I employed people in my company, and before that, when I managed and supervised people for other people's companies. I will give the OP a think, see if I can recall now any details of the policies I've administered that might be worth mentioning. But one thing I can tell you up front, you can make policies super-strict for legal reasons, but there is a difference between what's good in court, and what can actually be fairly and justly practiced in the workplace.

And "never ask anyone on a date" would be an absolute nightmare to enforce. Your lawyers might need it on paper, but you would be a fool or a sadist to try to implement it letter-for-letter.

Of course, repeatedly asking someone for a date when they have made it clear they are bothered by your asking -- that's whole 'nother thing.

By the way, what difference do the orientations of the people involved honestly make? If a man asks a woman, a woman asks a man, a man asks a man, or a woman asks a woman -- I see no rational grounds to distinguish between those cases when it comes to applying the rules.

 

[sun rise]

All I can think of is this...

I wonder why you did not illustrate the point using quotes from Trump who boasted he could grab women by the ***** cat.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I wonder why you did not illustrate the point using quotes from Trump who boasted he could grab women by the ***** cat.

I figured I'd best leave that for you to point out.

 

[sun rise]

Okay, now let's make it worse -- take the previous two scenarios, and replace the boss or superior with a person of the same gender as you

Gay sexual harassment is no different than heterosexual harassment.

What if someone of the opposite (or worse, same) gender hovers a little too close at the photocopier, and asks breathily if you need a little help?

The answer comes from "little too close" and "breahily" - that's over the line on the face of it.

What if they drop a hand on your hand, while doing so?

Even worse.

When I worked at a major corporation, we had yearly refresher courses on sexual harassment. I don't remember the details but my sense was: some actions are not OK no matter what (boss/subordinate). Among co-workers, be super sensitive to the other person, take it slow and watch for subtle responses.

And part of the situation for us alta kakers was to know that mores had changed and what was OK when we were 20 was totally not ok today. For example, one of my cousins married his secretary and they stayed married for well over 20 years. Office romances are not ok today.

 

[sun rise]

I figured I'd best leave that for you to point out.

Glad to be of service.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Okay, let's look at some scenarios and see what we think qualifies as sexual harrassment or sexual assault:

• Say you are a woman, working in an office, and a person in authority, your boss, or your boss's boss, over lunch suggests that you are very attractive and it would be nice if we could arrange something after work...
• Now do the same thing, except say you are a man
• Okay, now let's make it worse -- take the previous two scenarios, and replace the boss or superior with a person of the same gender as you

Okay, those were the easy ones...now let's try something hard:

• What if someone of the opposite (or worse, same) gender hovers a little too close at the photocopier, and asks breathily if you need a little help?
• What if they drop a hand on your hand, while doing so?

I won't continue to the more obvious examples, but I'll ask this question: at what point -- and how -- do you make it clear that this is making you uncomfortable (if, in fact, it is...otherwise, we're on a new topic)? And what do you expect should happen next? Is stopping the offending activity enough, or is an apology required?

And which of those activities, when the offender becomes famous or important, will you consider revealing to the press?

The primary consideration is that if they have control of you then its not Ok. The boss shouldn't flirt at people working under them. Flirting 'Up' to someone over you is probably ethically ok, but I wouldn't allow it if I were the boss.

I don't think that I can come up with simple rules for a peer reviewed professional environment. Some places peer review is very important, and in that case it depends on the people involved. What if they don't have any other social interaction? It seems more complicated.

 

[McBell]

The primary consideration is that if they have control of you then its not Ok. The boss shouldn't flirt at people working under them. Flirting 'Up' to someone over you is probably ethically ok, but I wouldn't allow it if I were the boss.

I don't think that I can come up with simple rules for a peer reviewed professional environment. Some places peer review is very important, and in that case it depends on the people involved. What if they don't have any other social interaction? It seems more complicated.

Seems to me it is really rather simple...
None of that nonsense int he work place.
Period.

Matters not if it is a married couple...
The work place is not the place for it.

 

[questfortruth]

Okay, let's look at some scenarios and see what we think qualifies as sexual harrassment or sexual assault:

• Say you are a woman, working in an office, and a person in authority, your boss, or your boss's boss, over lunch suggests that you are very attractive and it would be nice if we could arrange something after work...
• Now do the same thing, except say you are a man
• Okay, now let's make it worse -- take the previous two scenarios, and replace the boss or superior with a person of the same gender as you

Okay, those were the easy ones...now let's try something hard:

• What if someone of the opposite (or worse, same) gender hovers a little too close at the photocopier, and asks breathily if you need a little help?
• What if they drop a hand on your hand, while doing so?

I won't continue to the more obvious examples, but I'll ask this question: at what point -- and how -- do you make it clear that this is making you uncomfortable (if, in fact, it is...otherwise, we're on a new topic)? And what do you expect should happen next? Is stopping the offending activity enough, or is an apology required?

And which of those activities, when the offender becomes famous or important, will you consider revealing to the press?

Forget about dating and you will be fine monk.