Let's Recreate (end) Policing Together

[Cooky]

I'm not sure who you're referring to. Why is who arguing?

We were randomly attacked. Had the tar beat out of us for sitting on our front porch playing a guitar and doing crossword puzzles. Our city has a lot of problems with gang violence.

The reason your city has gang violence, is because when people get criminal records, nobody will hire them. So they are perpetually trapped in a system that repeats itself over and over, and peace will never be obtained.

...The government must take the proper steps to spread a new notion -one that sees bad actions as a result of circumstances, and not actions that require harsh punishment, and lifelong records that actually prevent positive growth.

There would be no gangs if people were allowed to make mistakes in their life without being held down for them so badly.

 

[oldbadger]

Why, you want to make people suffer? Why not try a new approach based in science?

...What does science say, when you take the threats out of the equation? When instead the government smothers you in helpful ways rather than threatening you with punishment? How do we know for sure that the former won't cause violence and crime to dissolve by 25% right off the bat on it's own?

How do we know what will or will not happen when nobody has ever even allowed the thought to be considered let alone tested?

How do we know for sure that there's not a *second* way, so new... So avant-garde..?

So do you think that everybody who disagrees with you 'wants to make people suffer'?

You think your approach is scientific?
Question: Let's say you own a shop with products on display. How will you keep your losses from theft down .?

 

[JustGeorge]

The reason your city has gang violence, is because when people get criminal records, nobody will hire them. So they are perpetually trapped in a system that repeats itself over and over, and peace will never be obtained.

...The government must take the proper steps to spread a new notion -one that sees bad actions as a result of circumstances, and not actions that require harsh punishment, and lifelong records that actually prevent positive growth.

There would be no gangs if people were allowed to make mistakes in their life without being held down for them so badly.

Couldn't agree more. Most of these folks are victims themselves, and then they go on to make more victims(like my family) not because they're bad to the core, but because of circumstances in their lives.

The men probably needed redirection(which would have been better given in youth), and a feeling of security(most gang members are scared to the bone of something or another, often each other).

 

[Cooky]

So do you think that everybody who disagrees with you 'wants to make people suffer'?

You think your approach is scientific?
Question: Let's say you own a shop with products on display. How will you keep your losses from theft down .?

The same way as always. You catch someone, then you get their name, or take their picture, and then the police send them a letter to appear in court.

The court will assess the possibilities why someone stole, whether it was because they were homeless and starving, or because they were getting drug money, or because they had psychological issues, and then the court will diagnose using science sort of like a doctor diagnoses...

Maybe you'll be advised to go to college, and be given paperwork on how to begin that process... Maybe you'll be advised to go to a doctor for perceived medical evaluation, to get medicine... Or maybe be given a voucher for drug rehabilitation free of cost, and then the information to gain an education as the next step if it would be helpful.

 

[JustGeorge]

.

Maybe you'll be advised to go to college, and be given paperwork on how to begin that process... Maybe you'll be advised to go to a doctor for perceived medical evaluation, to get medicine... Or maybe be given a voucher for drug rehabilitation free of cost, and then the information to gain an education as the next step if it would be helpful.

I don't think this is a bad idea, but it could be financially impossible for some, if they can't afford a doctor, college, or rehab.

Or would the court provide this free of charge?

 

[Cooky]

Policing is a *new* concept, not even having existed prior to it's invention in the 1820's by Robert Peel.

Why it is we feel compelled to keep this system unchanged is beyond reason to me... There's nothing so great about the way it is that it can't evolve, or even be destroyed, and replaced by a new scientific model.

 

[Cooky]

I don't think this is a bad idea, but it could be financially impossible for some, if they can't afford a doctor, college, or rehab.

Or would the court provide this free of charge?

I think if we were to add up the costs of imprisoning so much of our population, I think it would be beneficial to reroute that money into actually helping people instead.

I would even be willing to spend more if it helped society to become better.

 

[oldbadger]

The same way as always. You catch someone, then you get their name, or take their picture, and then the police send them a letter to appear in court.

We already do that in England/Wales!
Citizens have not had any powers to arrest/detain petty thefts since 2005. Police will only take identification and send out a fixed penalty notice for small thefts (say, under £150)
That's not news here.

The court will assess the possibilities why someone stole, whether it was because they were homeless and starving, or because they were getting drug money, or because they had psychological issues, and then the court will diagnose using science sort of like a doctor diagnoses...

You are way short on the list of crime motivations there.
I can think of at least 7 motivations...... you only mentioned 3.

You'll need to work out something better than 'sort of science' for your new era, I think.

Maybe you'll be advised to go to college, and be given paperwork on how to begin that process... Maybe you'll be advised to go to a doctor for perceived medical evaluation, to get medicine... Or maybe be given a voucher for drug rehabilitation free of cost, and then the information to gain an education as the next step if it would be helpful.

The very next thing 'you' need to think about is how to communicate your ideas..... for instance it will help somewhat if you stop telling people how 'they themselves' will be treated after committing any crime. Try the third person in your suggestions.

 

[Cooky]

We already do that in England/Wales!
Citizens have not had any powers to arrest/detain petty thefts since 2005. Police will only take identification and send out a fixed penalty notice for small thefts (say, under £150)
That's not news here.


You are way short on the list of crime motivations there.
I can think of at least 7 motivations...... you only mentioned 3.

You'll need to work out something better than 'sort of science' for your new era, I think.


The very next thing 'you' need to think about is how to communicate your ideas..... for instance it will help somewhat if you stop telling people how 'they' will be treated after committing any crime. Try the third person in your suggestions.

We can think of it together. You're actually responsible for finding solutions anyways, since your country invented policing in the 1820's. It was your Prime Minister Robert Peel!

 

[oldbadger]

We can think of it together.

No we don't. We've already been thinking about it, and moving forward.

You're actually responsible for finding solutions anyways, since your country invented policing in the 1820's. It was your Prime Minister Robert Peel!

Only for ourselves. England/Wales legislates for itself. Scotland has its own ancient common laws. Norther Ireland has it's own special laws.

We are not responsible for any others.

I think you need to brush up on your motivations list if you're going to try to rehabilitate or change folk's ideas, as well.

 

[Cooky]

here's an open question for anyone...

Do the actions of government and the design of it's laws affect the behavioral traits of the society as a whole..?

To understand this question properly, know that I am not talking about law enforcement, and forcing people to act according to the law. That's basic.

...Rather, I am asking if an eye for an eye type of justice system, creates a society that thinks in an eye for an eye style. IOW, does the culture itself become a reflection of the government...? I would say that absolutely it does, just like the religious of a particular faith adopt the culture of the religion, and believe what the religion teaches.

...So what I'm saying, is that a helpful, compassionate rehabilitation effort by the government, as a brand new approach to treating criminal dysfunctionalism, would lead to a society that's more helpful and compassionate as a whole, thus reducing crime through a direct cultural change, or "paradigm shift".

 

[Cooky]

I just need scientific evidence that a society tends to reflect, within it's culture, the governmental traditions that exist... Currently, there is no science on the topic. It’s never been hypothesized yet apparently.

...If it can be proven, then the science can guide us. And we can trust it.