Let's Recreate (end) Policing Together

[Cooky]

This is one of my hopes ~ That people come to realize that everyone makes every decision they do based on chemical reactions of the brain that are beyond their control, and no act should be thought of emotionally, or vengence-based... Nobody ever needs to be "punished", as that's an archaic, un-enlightened notion.

...My goal is for a new notion to be mended into governmental law enforcement.

• We need to end (nonviolent) detainment prior to a court ruling
• nobody should ever be physically stopped for a traffic violation -all should be handled through video surveillance
• Only violent offenders should ever go to jail
• Nobody should ever be pursued by the police, unless they miss their court date or physically hurt someone.
• police officers should *never* speed, and should have governors installed in their vehicles that prevent them from speeding.

...Ultimately, this is a recipe for the end of policing in America, and the beginning of the Primacy of the court system.

...A new age (surveillance) means new rules.

 

[Cooky]

the job of policing should be strictly to take reports, and have those reports turned in to panels of scientific thinkers, who will either issue court dates or decide not to.

...The only time the government will ever "arrest" anyone, will be if they missed their court date or commit an act of violence. the police will never be physically watching again, they won't be pulling you over, and won't be chasing anyone ever again, unless they miss court dates, or physically harming someone, in which a team of officers will arrive at your door with a warrant.

 

[danieldemol]

This is one of my hopes ~ That people come to realize that everyone makes every decision they do based on chemical reactions of the brain that are beyond their control, and no act should be thought of emotionally, or vengence-based... Nobody ever needs to be "punished", as that's an archaic, un-enlightened notion.

...My goal is for a new notion to be mended into governmental law enforcement.

• We need to end (nonviolent) detainment prior to a court ruling
• nobody should ever be physically stopped for a traffic violation -all should be handles through video surveillance
• Only violent offenders should ever go to jail
• Nobody should ever be pursued by the police, unless they miss their court date.
• police officers should *never* speed, and should have governors installed in their vehicles that prevent them from speeding.

...Ultimately, this is a recipe for the end of policing in America, and the beginning of the Primacy of the court system.

...A new age (surveillance) means new rules.

Well this is not in the jokes section, so debate it i shall.

Number1:
Imagine someone shoots someone, instead of detaining or neutralising where impossible to detain, you have to wait however long it takes to get a court order to act.
In the meantime more are gunned down.

2. Allows people to commit unlimited potentially life threatening traffic violations until the surveillance system finally causes a court case. You could literally drive around drunk mowing down pedestrians.

3. Leaves conmen free to hinder society allowing people to be defrauded of their livelihoods and starve to death.

4. See 1-3

5. They possibly wouldn't catch criminals who do speed.

 

[danieldemol]

I should add though that reform is a much preferable goal to punishment

 

[Cooky]

Well this is not in the jokes section, so debate it i shall.

Number1:
Imagine someone shoots someone, instead of detaining or neutralising where impossible to detain, you have to wait however long it takes to get a court order to act.
In the meantime more are gunned down.

2. Allows people to commit unlimited potentially life threatening traffic violations until the surveillance system finally causes a court case. You could literally drive around drunk mowing down pedestrians.

3. Leaves conmen free to hinder society allowing people to be defrauded of their livelihoods and starve to death.

4. See 1-3

5. They possibly wouldn't catch criminals who do speed.

People who act in violence surely must be detained, no doubt, because people need to be kept safe. Violence should be the *only* cause of direct police intervention.

Try to imagine a world with less imprisonment, and more therapy. Because currently, in my country at least, the term "justice" is used, which basically means 'getting even', as if that's somehow uplifting...

getting *even*:


...What would be better, is a scientifically based system rather than an outdated philosophical one. One that estimates *why* someone does something, and attempts to help correct what went wrong.

This is something totally new. Sort of like how legalizing gay marriage was... A topic bogged down in ancient tradition, that's going to be very difficult to rethink... But try to imagine policing being done by professionals, using a scientific approach, based on helping people rather than getting someone on as many crimes as they possibly can, and then punishing them.

...There are different ways to handle this. It's just going to require a little open-mindedness, and the will to make it better.

 

[Cooky]

Think of what it might lead to - A government based on helping, rather than making things "even"... Think of what notion that might lead an entire society to embrace collectively, and what changes it might cause in the way everyone behaves toward one another.

 

[Cooky]

We should attempt to forget everything we ever knew about policing and the "justice" system, and recreate the system entirely, using science.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I think it is an excellent recipe for letting the country be taken over by thugs, hoodlums, and drug addicts. Next time someone breaks into your house and points a gun at you, do you want the police to respond at 20 miles per hour?

 

[Cooky]

I think it is an excellent recipe for letting the country be taken over by thugs, hoodlums, and drug addicts. Next time someone breaks into your house and points a gun at you, do you want the police to respond at 20 miles per hour?

Try thinking the other way, 180° out of where you're at as an exercise. Try making a case for it, without fear, using the 'Steel Man' technique.

...Because like I said earlier, *violence* is the only reason police should be allowed to make an immediate arrest.

The Steel Man Technique: How To Argue Better And Be Persuasive

Expand your mind! Think outside of tradition.

 

[Cooky]

Isn't it true that the justice system is fear-based, just like Christianity..?

...Either you follow the law and go to heaven, or you go to hell... Either you follow the law and live in society, or you go to jail.

It's the same thing!

The justice system is a recreation of Christianity, when it could be science-based instead. Right..?

 

[JustGeorge]

I think it is an excellent recipe for letting the country be taken over by thugs, hoodlums, and drug addicts. Next time someone breaks into your house and points a gun at you, do you want the police to respond at 20 miles per hour?

Been here, done that. And I'll say the only reason I'm likely still alive is because of the officer who sat waiting at the gas station for ******* to hit the fan. And what's even scarier to me is if that one individual officer wasn't on duty that night, we'd have been screwed, because none of the other officers we dealt with that night gave a rat's behind what happened to us; a poor family on the worst end of town. Actually, some of the officers were so casual in the handling(laughing, joking, talking about how drunk they were the night before, etc), my husband at one point piped up and said "you are dismissed! Leave! You are not helping, you do not care, so just get the ***** off my property".

So I'll maintain that we do need the police, but this needs to be handled differently. There should be a litmus test on the character of the men and women who sign up for these jobs. "Protect and serve" That's the part that seems to be forgotten. Serve. They are there not only to protect(we remember that one), but to serve the community as well.

The raw force idea only makes things worse. We need some kind of program along with policing to help deter young folks from falling into criminal lifestyles. Our city is trying to implement new ideas, but still has a long way to go.

 

[Cooky]

Been here, done that. And I'll say the only reason I'm likely still alive is because of the officer who sat waiting at the gas station for ******* to hit the fan. And what's even scarier to me is if that one individual officer wasn't on duty that night, we'd have been screwed, because none of the other officers we dealt with that night gave a rat's behind what happened to us; a poor family on the worst end of town. Actually, some of the officers were so casual in the handling(laughing, joking, talking about how drunk they were the night before, etc), my husband at one point piped up and said "you are dismissed! Leave! You are not helping, you do not care, so just get the ***** off my property".

So I'll maintain that we do need the police, but this needs to be handled differently. There should be a litmus test on the character of the men and women who sign up for these jobs. "Protect and serve" That's the part that seems to be forgotten. Serve. They are there not only to protect(we remember that one), but to serve the community as well.

The raw force idea only makes things worse. We need some kind of program along with policing to help deter young folks from falling into criminal lifestyles. Our city is trying to implement new ideas, but still has a long way to go.

What is it you wanted the officers to do? What did that one officer do to help you?

 

[Heyo]

This is one of my hopes ~ That people come to realize that everyone makes every decision they do based on chemical reactions of the brain that are beyond their control, and no act should be thought of emotionally, or vengence-based... Nobody ever needs to be "punished", as that's an archaic, un-enlightened notion.

While I agree on the gist of the notion, I have some reservations on the details.

...My goal is for a new notion to be mended into governmental law enforcement.

• We need to end (nonviolent) detainment prior to a court ruling

Detainment has two purposes. 1. prevent further crimes and 2. prevent escape. While I do agree that detainment should only be to prevent violent or dangerous behaviour, escaping justice should also be taken into consideration.

• nobody should ever be physically stopped for a traffic violation -all should be handles through video surveillance

Nope. Reckless driving or DUI are reasons for an immediate stop, as well as suspicion of a crime. (But make dashboard and body cams mandatory.)

• Only violent offenders should ever go to jail

Depends on your definition of "violence". Some people can be quite harmful without resorting to physical violence.

• Nobody should ever be pursued by the police, unless they miss their court date.
• police officers should *never* speed, and should have governors installed in their vehicles that prevent them from speeding.

Police and other services have lights and sirens to make their speeding more save and they should be able to use it (though regulated). Without lights and sirens police should hold to normal traffic rules.

...Ultimately, this is a recipe for the end of policing in America, and the beginning of the Primacy of the court system.

...A new age (surveillance) means new rules.

Won't happen the way you imagine it.

 

[JustGeorge]

I wanted them to check the perimeters, keep an eye out, and act supportive and concerned, etc If they weren't concerned about their citizen's mental and physical well being, they should take up a different job. Perhaps mall security.

Its complicated, but the officer we mentioned kind of put his butt on the line for us. We were first physically assaulted, and called the police. He handled that. I kept asking him if he would please stay with us, I knew they would come back with guns(such were the way with the local gangs). He kind of brushed us off. He left. When they came back with guns, he was on the scene in three minutes. My husband got mad, and asked why he didn't just stay, and he got mad back, and said "I knew you were right, and that they would come back, but my ****** superior wouldn't let me!" He sat at the gas station a few blocks away(which apparently, he supervisor was fine with), just waiting for our call...

 

[Father Heathen]

Ours brains are extremely complex and reducing it to chemical reactions is an oversimplification. We're still responsible for our actions, and should still be held accountable for them.

That said, the Justice system does need a huge overhaul. Punishment often doesn't fit the crime, and people often leave prison more hardened rather tham rehabilitated. The system actually cultivates an environment of racial division, gangs and rape within prisons.

 

[Cooky]

I wanted them to check the perimeters, keep an eye out, and act supportive and concerned, etc If they weren't concerned about their citizen's mental and physical well being, they should take up a different job. Perhaps mall security.

Its complicated, but the officer we mentioned kind of put his butt on the line for us. We were first physically assaulted, and called the police. He handled that. I kept asking him if he would please stay with us, I knew they would come back with guns(such were the way with the local gangs). He kind of brushed us off. He left. When they came back with guns, he was on the scene in three minutes. My husband got mad, and asked why he didn't just stay, and he got mad back, and said "I knew you were right, and that they would come back, but my ****** superior wouldn't let me!" He sat at the gas station a few blocks away(which apparently, he supervisor was fine with), just waiting for our call...

Hmmm... So why were you guys arguing in the first place? Perhaps someone thought they had a savior on their side (the police), so they were more inclined to pipe-up when maybe they shouldn't have been saying anything to begin with?

...Probably, if people didn't think they had the option to call the police to come bail them out, they would act differently towards others.

 

[oldbadger]

the job of policing should be strictly to take reports, and have those reports turned in to panels of scientific thinkers, who will either issue court dates or decide not to.

...The only time the government will ever "arrest" anyone, will be if they missed their court date or commit an act of violence. the police will never be physically watching again, they won't be pulling you over, and won't be chasing anyone ever again, unless they miss court dates, or physically harming someone, in which a team of officers will arrive at your door with a warrant.

Wow! No more DUI or Drug driving offences? No more chasing car jackers? No more chasing bank robbers or school mass murderers?

If you say so......

 

[Cooky]

Wow! No more DUI or Drug driving offences? No more chasing car jackers? No more chasing bank robbers or school mass murderers?

If you say so......

Why, you want to make people suffer? Why not try a new approach based in science?

...What does science say, when you take the threats out of the equation? When instead the government smothers you in helpful ways rather than threatening you with punishment? How do we know for sure that the former won't cause violence and crime to dissolve by 25% right off the bat on it's own?

How do we know what will or will not happen when nobody has ever even allowed the thought to be considered let alone tested?

How do we know for sure that there's not a *second* way, so new... So avant-garde..?

 

[Cooky]

You know why everybody is afraid to think like this? Because it's too different than what they're used to... And nothing more.

...People are afraid to think outside the box. Because they're stuck in a cycle of threats and punishment... Condemnation is all they know.

 

[JustGeorge]

Hmmm... So why were you guys arguing in the first place? Perhaps someone thought they had a savior on their side (the police), so they were more inclined to pipe-up when maybe they shouldn't have been saying anything to begin with?

...Probably, if people didn't think they had the option to call the police to come bail them out, they would act differently towards others.

I'm not sure who you're referring to. Why is who arguing?

We were randomly attacked. Had the tar beat out of us for sitting on our front porch playing a guitar and doing crossword puzzles. Our city has a lot of problems with gang violence.