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Let's not talk about the Big Bang

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I am sure you read my post but I'll repeat it.



It was i reply to your post.




However do you actually know anything about the arch of Titus?

Commissioned by Domitian to commemorate his brothers official deification and victory over the jewish rebellion. How does this concern what is written in the NT?
The Arch of Titus is a commemoration of the Roman advance over Jerusalem in the 1st century. The monument is a standing memorial to that event. The Arch was not the fulfillment. The action that the Arch represents is the fulfilment.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
The Arch of Titus is a commemoration of the Roman advance over Jerusalem in the 1st century. The monument is a standing memorial to that event. The Arch was not the fulfillment. The action that the Arch represents is the fulfilment.

The arch wad built to commemorate the deification of Tatus Vespasianus.

Some of his major achievements were carved into the arch. It is not a prophecy but a history.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
That is OK. Let us start with the first paragraph. You will need to read the links mentioned. By the end of the effort you will become a sort of layman-expert on 'abiogenesis', i.e., understanding the process though not understanding the details. For that college education in necessary. :)

"In biology, abiogenesis (from a-‘not’ + Greek bios ‘life’ + genesis 'origin') or the origin of life is the natural process by which life has arisen from non-living matter, such as simple organic compounds. The prevailing scientific hypothesis is that the transition from non-living to living entities was not a single event, but an evolutionary process of increasing complexity that involved the formation of a habitable planet, the prebiotic synthesis of organic molecules, molecular self-replication, self-assembly, autocatalysis, and the emergence of cell membranes. Many proposals have been made for different stages of the process."
I have noted which statements stand out to me as assumptive, conjectural and without true basis. They said, "Many proposals have been made for different stages of the process." So it is based on conjectural possibilities.
Now I wish to thank you for sticking by the agreement to go over this point by point. While I understand the presumptive arguments so far, I find it interesting that the explanation is using this as a basis. "Prevailing scientific hypothesis," "Many proposals have been made..."
If I were in a basic class listening to this, I would have a choice, perhaps at this point in my life. Grin and bear it or leave. However, if you'd like, we can continue going over the article piece by piece to discuss it as much as possible.
Many proposals have been made for different stages of the process.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The arch wad built to commemorate the deification of Tatus Vespasianus.

Some of his major achievements were carved into the arch. It is not a prophecy but a history.
The Arch was not the prophecy. It is a standing testimony to the fulfillment of prophecy.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
The Arch was not the prophecy. It is a standing testimony to the fulfillment of prophecy.

Nope it is a standing memorial to a god.

You introduced the arch, as something tangible to back up belief. It does no such thing but feel free to believe whatever you want
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The arch of Titus was built after Titus death, i.e. after the Jewish rebellion was subdued and the temple was destroyed. Mentioning something after the event is not prophecy but history. Sorry you don't like facts but... Wait a moment, im not sorry at all.
Note: I never said the Arch was prophecy. The Arch demonstrates in stone the event in fulfillment of prophecy.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Nope it is a standing memorial to a god.

You introduced the arch, as something tangible to back up belief. It does no such thing but feel free to believe whatever you want
Good morning! Certainly the Arch is testimony to the fact that what is written in the Bible about the Jewish rebellion and interchange with the Roman government as well as prophetic warnings is true. Again -- the Arch of Titus is not prophecy. It demonstrates the fulfillment of prophecy.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Note: I never said the Arch was prophecy. The Arch demonstrates in stone the event in fulfillment of prophecy.

You used it to backup your claims of biblical whatever. As far as i know the arch of Titus is not mentioned in the bible though it does record (after the event) historical actions
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Good morning! Certainly the Arch is testimony to the fact that what is written in the Bible about the Jewish rebellion and interchange with the Roman government as well as prophetic warnings is true. Again -- the Arch of Titus is not prophecy. It demonstrates the fulfillment of prophecy.

The bible NT was written around the time the arch was constructed. I am pretty sure @gnostic has explained this to you already.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You used it to backup your claims of biblical whatever. As far as i know the arch of Titus is not mentioned in the bible though it does record (after the event) historical actions
Jerusalem and its temple were destroyed by the Romans in 70 C.E. Titus became emperor from 79 to 81 C.E. and after his death the Arch was completed and dedicated to the deified Titus. His triumphant procession is represented on the arch. This stands as silent testimony to the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy and the expression of Jehovah’s judgment upon rebellious Jerusalem.—Matt. 23:37–24:2; Luke 19:43, 44; 21:20-24.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The bible NT was written around the time the arch was constructed. I am pretty sure @gnostic has explained this to you already.
It depends on who is interpreting and understanding insofar as the various books are concerned. Various scholars have differing opinions about when the books were written. Since the gospel of Matthew does not describe the overthrow of Jerusalem by the Roman armies, it is apparent that it was finished prior to the razing of the temple and conquest of the rebellious Jews by the Roman armies.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You used it to backup your claims of biblical whatever. As far as i know the arch of Titus is not mentioned in the bible though it does record (after the event) historical actions
The arch of Titus is not mentioned in the Bible. The prophecy regarding the overthrow of the temple and conquest of Jerusalem certainly is.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
First, science does not deal in proof, it deals in evidence.Second, and what has religion ever proven?[QUOTE/]
Religion and science is a search for truth.
Science is: truth discovered
Religion is: truth revealed
Jesus revealed religious truth to us - John 17:17

Science and technology is now put on a pedistool, so a measure of faith is put into both.
Science and technology is to transform the world ( but without proper morals it never will )
Science and technology can't protect against a throw-away life style.
Technology allows for the rapid spreading about the 'good news' of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8
Technology/ science also comes with side effects such as with medicine.
They have good news but with negative draw backs.
Science and technology will never completely grasp absolute truth.
The misuse of science and technology today harms tomorrow.
For example: Atomic Energy / Atomic Bomb
Things are supposed to provide comfort but putting man's wisdom ahead of God's wisdom has created the world we see today.
- 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13







I suggest you try researching "life created in laboratory".
Nor does religion, science does not deal in the supernatural and religion stomps it foot and says "believe in magic"
As previously stated, science deals in evidence. There is no evidence to suggest a god (any of the 3800+ creator gods) did it Nor will you but you will bluster and believe
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
After the event
There is nothing to indicate that the dire warnings given to the Jews, both about getting out of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple were written "after the event." Matthew chapter 24 records a dire prophesy of the coming destruction: "Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), 16 then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains 17 Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house, 18 and let the man in the field not return to pick up his outer garment. 19 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! 20 Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime nor on the Sabbath day; 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."
Those who escaped as directed managed to save their lives. Those who did not are depicted in the arch.
Also, the account in Luke gives another reference to the coming fulfillment of the warning, regarding Jerusalem:
"And when he got nearby, he viewed the city and wept over it, 42 saying: “If you, even you, had discerned on this day the things having to do with peace—but now they have been hidden from your eyes. 43 Because the days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification of pointed stakes and will encircle you and besiege you from every side. 44 They will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected.”
(The arch of Titus confirms the fulfillment of this prophecy.)
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
After the event
Once again, nothing in the Bible says that the destruction of the temple and conquest of Jerusalem was accomplished. It was a warning, not fulfilled until after the book was completed. I know you don't believe that God himself had the manuscripts written to his approval. And there was nothing in the Bible that says the warnings were fulfilled.
No reference in the Bible is made to the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy respecting Jerusalem’s destruction, therefore this would point to a time of writing prior to 70 C.E.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
There is nothing to indicate that the dire warnings given to the Jews, both about getting out of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple were written "after the event." Matthew chapter 24 records a dire prophesy of the coming destruction: "Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), 16 then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains 17 Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house, 18 and let the man in the field not return to pick up his outer garment. 19 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! 20 Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime nor on the Sabbath day; 21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."
Those who escaped as directed managed to save their lives. Those who did not are depicted in the arch.
Also, the account in Luke gives another reference to the coming fulfillment of the warning, regarding Jerusalem:
"And when he got nearby, he viewed the city and wept over it, 42 saying: “If you, even you, had discerned on this day the things having to do with peace—but now they have been hidden from your eyes. 43 Because the days will come upon you when your enemies will build around you a fortification of pointed stakes and will encircle you and besiege you from every side. 44 They will dash you and your children within you to the ground, and they will not leave a stone upon a stone in you, because you did not discern the time of your being inspected.”
(The arch of Titus confirms the fulfillment of this prophecy.)

Most scholars believe the Matthew was composed between AD 80 and 90.
Luke around the same time
I.e. after the event

And it was common knowledge that rome did not tolerate descent.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Once again, nothing in the Bible says that the destruction of the temple and conquest of Jerusalem was accomplished. It was a warning, not fulfilled until after the book was completed. I know you don't believe that God himself had the manuscripts written to his approval. And there was nothing in the Bible that says the warnings were fulfilled.
No reference in the Bible is made to the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy respecting Jerusalem’s destruction, therefore this would point to a time of writing prior to 70 C.E.


See above

And leaving people hanging makes for a good story, an author's trick still used today
 
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