Let's go over this again, shall we, about chances--

[YoursTrue]

What we do know is that it happened, not in a world like today. But in a world that we could not recognise. Full of constant vulcanism raw minerals water acids and heat and lightening the like of which we have never experienced.

It was a melting pot of constantly changing possibilities. All the things were present that live needed to take hold once started.

Who knows how many false starts there were before that first reproducible cell was formed that led to what we know of today as life. The world around us is all the evidence we need to show us that it happened.
We are unlikely ever know how it happened as no evidence remains.

And you know this because you told yourself it's true or someone else told you it's true. Which is it? So did it or did it not begin/start/grow by chance? Random chance, that is, after all those "false starts" you speak of.

 

[YoursTrue]

What we do know is that it happened, not in a world like today. But in a world that we could not recognise. Full of constant vulcanism raw minerals water acids and heat and lightening the like of which we have never experienced.

It was a melting pot of constantly changing possibilities. All the things were present that live needed to take hold once started.

Who knows how many false starts there were before that first reproducible cell was formed that led to what we know of today as life. The world around us is all the evidence we need to show us that it happened.
We are unlikely ever know how it happened as no evidence remains.

And you know this because you told yourself it's true or someone else told you it's true. Which is it? So did it or did it not begin/start/grow by chance? Random chance, that is, after all those "false starts" you speak of.

 

[YoursTrue]

What we do know is that it happened, not in a world like today. But in a world that we could not recognise. Full of constant vulcanism raw minerals water acids and heat and lightening the like of which we have never experienced.

It was a melting pot of constantly changing possibilities. All the things were present that live needed to take hold once started.

Who knows how many false starts there were before that first reproducible cell was formed that led to what we know of today as life. The world around us is all the evidence we need to show us that it happened.
We are unlikely ever know how it happened as no evidence remains.

So those constantly changing possibilities eventually by chance(?) but not random chance, is that what you're saying? The elements to combine were there, they just got together and began growing by "chance," but not random chance. (Huh?)

 

[Colt]

What use has omnipotence for delegation?

Sharing is part of Gods lovable nature. He shared his life in creating you. Within our limited sphere of existence he has given us creative powers and free will of our own. I see the ability to do all of that as an expression of Gods unlimited powers.

IMOP

 

[YoursTrue]

Sharing is part of Gods lovable nature. He shared his life in creating you. Within our limited sphere of existence he has given us creative powers and free will of our own. I see the ability to do all of that as an expression of Gods unlimited powers.

IMOP

Very, very interesting. OTOH, He will not allow his purpose of a beautiful future to be annihilated by men (and women, of course.) He will step in at His proper time, soon I hope.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Very abstruse thoughts, I must say. "A certain unknown living man" etc.? What does that mean?

what dont you understand? certain meaning only one, unknown meaning i dont know who it is, and living as in not dead

 

[Bird123]

Do you agree with the following: "Molecules-to-man evolution can be defined as the natural process that has produced the present-day life forms from matter, energy, chance, genetic modifications and natural selection, and changing environments over vast periods of time."?
Further, that the "random combining of basic elements with energy but without outside intelligence is the mechanism by which the first simplest cell is said to have been formed."
Yes, no? Maybe?

Statistically, I would say no. I read a book years and years ago that said the universe was not old enough for random chance to form what we have today. On the other hand, if the universe was run like a computer program, there would be time.

Evidence such as evolution, fractals, and quantum entanglement point to intelligence and a well ordered system. Look around. Everything has purpose. One does not see random fragments floating around.

God created the universe to unfold and grow in such a way that mankind would be able to figure it all out in time. It's just like a giant tree can grow from a small seed. It's all in the same matrix. There is much more than simple evolution.

Yes, there is much more to Discover. You are right about one thing. The universe is so much more than the Poof creation religions have been wanting everyone to believe. God hides nothing. Poof creation would defeat the real purpose of the existence of the universe.

All the secrets of the universe stare us in the face. This is where the answers live.

We are Spiritual beings in our true natures. This physical universe and it's creation has nothing to do with our Spiritual. On the other hand, the physical universe does have purpose.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[YoursTrue]

what dont you understand? certain meaning only one, unknown meaning i dont know who it is, and living as in not dead

ok, have a good one. But then again, there are some people that believe dead people are alive, can talk to them, visit them in their dreams, etc. I often hear their murdered loved ones are "watching" them from heaven, of course. And in some cases, many perhaps, can pray to those that have died, like saints? But who they think may still be alive. Now I'm wondering if some people pray to animals that have died. You never know...

 

[shunyadragon]

There is no explanation for the set of limitations and possibilities that preceded and determined the "natural laws" that the universe obeys, and that creates it.

And I have not suggested any anthropomorphic or supernatural entities of any sort. However, by definition, whatever preceded what we now refer to as "the laws of nature" is then "supernatural". So whatever the origin of the universal existential event is, it would by definition be "supernatural".

Contradiction big time Natural Laws and processes are not supernatural by definition.

 

[Twilight Hue]

cute.
You just ain't smart enough.

Yea. Try untangling them after 3 years.

 

[F1fan]

Sharing is part of Gods lovable nature. He shared his life in creating you. Within our limited sphere of existence he has given us creative powers and free will of our own. I see the ability to do all of that as an expression of Gods unlimited powers.

IMOP

None of this has any basis in fact.

 

[Aupmanyav]

No, it was not random. There was a whole system in place governed by physical laws that included the possibility of chance combinations of elements, but was primarily very controlled and organized.

Existence as we know it is "designed" by those laws. But we know nothing of the origin or purpose of that design. Nothing at all. Many surmise that the origin must have been "intelligent" because the results are so incredibly complex and balanced. But although that may be a logical presumption, that's all it is.

IMHO, no combinations are by chance. Your presumption is not logical unless you provide a reason for emergence of this 'intelligence'.

 

[Aupmanyav]

How do you or science know that no outside intelligence was required for the beginnings of life?

Searched and found no evidence of the elephant in my room, it is in your room.

 

[Alien826]

Why is it that experts in biology should know how life began and where life came from and what caused life and more than someone with an uneducated opinion?
I imagine that an expert in biology has been educated to believe a certain thing about the beginnings of life but how did the teachers learn these things?

Why should someone who has studied a subject and become an expert in it know better than someone who has an uneducated opinion? That's a tough one. Let's see now ....

 

[Subduction Zone]

How do you or science know that no outside intelligence was required for the beginnings of life?
There is evidence in the coding in genetics that an intelligence designed it. But science cannot study that intelligence, it does not know how to and so goes forward with the presumption that there was no intelligence involved. If a scientist suggested that it was all designed they would probably lose their job. Science just cannot study God and so just presumes no god/s. So they go ahead and try to think of a possible way that the whole thing designed itself, but that is not evidence that it designed itself.

ID is very good evidence that a God had no part in evolution.

 

[Aupmanyav]

ok, have a good one. But then again, there are some people that believe dead people are alive, can talk to them, visit them in their dreams, etc. I often hear their murdered loved ones are "watching" them from heaven, of course. And in some cases, many perhaps, can pray to those that have died, like saints? But who they think may still be alive. Now I'm wondering if some people pray to animals that have died. You never know...

At least, that is not an atheist belief. Normally theists would have such beliefs - devil and exorcism.

Look around. Everything has purpose. One does not see random fragments floating around.

Yeah, look around; Covid and Monkeypox, earthquakes and volcanoes, floods and droughts, typhoons and tornadoes, all have purpose as mandated by God.

.. soon I hope.

It has been 2,000 years. How long we have to wait? He told the disciples that it will happen in their life-time.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So those constantly changing possibilities eventually by chance(?) but not random chance, is that what you're saying? The elements to combine were there, they just got together and began growing by "chance," but not random chance. (Huh?)

You should have read some chemistry to understand how and why atoms combine. Where did you study? In a madarsa (religious school)?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Do you agree with the following: "Molecules-to-man evolution can be defined as the natural process that has produced the present-day life forms from matter, energy, chance, genetic modifications and natural selection, and changing environments over vast periods of time."?
Further, that the "random combining of basic elements with energy but without outside intelligence is the mechanism by which the first simplest cell is said to have been formed."
Yes, no? Maybe?

Cells evolved.
Life existed long before it was in cellular form.

Other then that, sure.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What evidence would suggest that no outside intelligence was needed, or is that just the naturalistic presupposition of science?

The same type of evidence that suggests that the people in the TV can't see you.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

So those constantly changing possibilities eventually by chance(?) but not random chance, is that what you're saying? The elements to combine were there, they just got together and began growing by "chance," but not random chance. (Huh?)

No one is so blind as those thant won't see.
Chance is not like you picture it. Some things are almost inevitable if the conditions are right.

There could be many planets in the universe with equal conditions to the early earth, where life took hold and others where it did not. Nothing is certain even when it is possible. This is what may be considered as chance.