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Featured Let's go over this again, shall we, about chances--

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by YoursTrue, Sep 4, 2022.

  1. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

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    Do you agree with the following: "Molecules-to-man evolution can be defined as the natural process that has produced the present-day life forms from matter, energy, chance, genetic modifications and natural selection, and changing environments over vast periods of time."?
    Further, that the "random combining of basic elements with energy but without outside intelligence is the mechanism by which the first simplest cell is said to have been formed."
    Yes, no? Maybe?
     
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  2. F1fan

    F1fan Veteran Member

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    Let's we ordinary folk just read what experts in biology report, and not try to form uneducated opinions like some religious folk because of religion.
     
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  3. Moon

    Moon Well-Known Member

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    I have no doubt the science is correct and that would've actually happened if in fact that time actually existed. I just don't believe existence has always been around and always will. That's why I believe the end/ beginning of existence falls/rises with the death/birth of a certain unknown living man who essentially secures eternity.
    God (infinite space) was so vast and abstract it needed an anchor, which is man, to face reality. No one cheats death, not even God!
     
    #3 Moon, Sep 4, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2022
  4. YoursTrue

    YoursTrue Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

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    Ah, if only I understood what you are saying. Meantime, my finite body is telling me I need to go to sleep. My body tells me there is something out there greater than myself. And this something is described as a person that is way beyond my understanding, as God explained in the Bible, who cares for me and about me. Who gives me the conscious contemplative hope to live. But that's where I stop, because while it seems like a conundrum, only God can give you this hope.
     
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  5. Moon

    Moon Well-Known Member

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    or highly educated wisdom like some spiritual folk because of spirit.
     
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  6. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I certainly didn't need a designer to put all those cords behind my TV into knots!
     
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  7. We Never Know

    We Never Know No Slack

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    Yet a designer made them. Without the designer, there would be no knotted cords.
     
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  8. F1fan

    F1fan Veteran Member

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    I thought you went to bed already.
     
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  9. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Your first statement looks sensible to me, but the second one is rubbish. Creationists persist in inserting the word random where it does not belong. Elements do not combine randomly. There is a science, called chemistry, that provides exhaustive detail on what elements combine, how they do so and under what conditions. There is nothing random about it at all.
     
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  10. We Never Know

    We Never Know No Slack

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    Are you saying with everthing that exists that random had no play in it?
     
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  11. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    No, of course not. But it is a stupid mischaracterisation to suggest that somehow it is all random, like that idiotic “tornado in a junkyard” non-analogy.

    When you study science, you learn that randomness plays a fundamental role in how nature works, but you also learn that there is also fundamental order, which determines what outcomes result from that randomness.

    The creationist, on the other hand - who is almost invariably stupefyingly ignorant of science - uses “random” as a word suggesting there is NO order behind what happens in nature, generally as a pretext for ridiculing science.
     
    #11 exchemist, Sep 5, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
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  12. We Never Know

    We Never Know No Slack

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    It may have all started out random and eventually fell into place after the tornado passed.
     
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  13. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    That is certainly what the vast amounts of evidence suggests, and there is zero evidence to suggest that some outside intelligence was involved.
     
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  14. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Generally yes to both statements. Details can be discussed. It is not all that random. There are rules about what can combine with what.
     
  15. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Why is it that experts in biology should know how life began and where life came from and what caused life and more than someone with an uneducated opinion?
    I imagine that an expert in biology has been educated to believe a certain thing about the beginnings of life but how did the teachers learn these things?
     
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  16. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Do you agree with that because you do not believe in an outside intelligence or is there any other reason?
     
  17. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    What evidence would suggest that no outside intelligence was needed, or is that just the naturalistic presupposition of science?
     
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  18. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Yes, there is no outside intelligence.
    Each step of evolution has corroborative evidence.
     
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  19. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Because the explanations provided by science require no outside intelligence. Furthermore, there is absolutely no evidence that any outside intelligence is involved. IF any such evidence existed then scientists would jump at the chance to study it and try to determine the source of this outside intelligence. But without any such evidence there is nothing for the scientific method to study.
     
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  20. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    What we are talking about is really abiogenesis. Is there evidence that no intelligence was needed for the beginnings of life or is that just a presumption of yours and of science?
    If there is evidence, do you know what that evidence is?
     
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